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Suppose you had 5k and it had to be invested in either silver or copper...not both...would you do 5k in copper pennies at fv...or silver at spot price? And explain your reasoning

If given the chance to buy $5000 worth of copper cents at FV in 1 shot, it'd be silly to not do this instead of the silver at spot. Even if you were to just flip the copper for 1.3-1.4 cents a piece, it'd turn your $5000 into $7000-$8000. You can then take this $7-8K and drop it on even more silver...

Silver. Buy it now... hold... you'll look like a genius in a year or two.

Fortunately, we can still get copper way under spot by simply hoarding pre1982 pennies.

If you could flip the copper all in one shot I would flip the copper and buy silver otherwise, I would buy silver.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Silver. Buy it now... hold... you'll look like a genius in a year or two.

Fortunately, we can still get copper way under spot by simply hoarding pre1982 pennies.

Why do you say in a year or two? And the question was more geared towards the longer term investment...even 5 yrs or so...do you guys think we will see copper rise much? Obviously silver is more bullish...but thats good and bad

Copper is correctly priced at a rarity ratio of 5300x ratio to gold, which means copper is just about where it should be at $4/pound.

Silver is undervalued based on rarity, Nickel is also undervalued based on rarity. Assuming gold and copper are where they "should" be, Nickel should be about $2.80 an ounce or so ($45/pound) to catchup. Neodymium at $450 per kilogram was massively overpriced based on rarity (but not overpriced based on supply)

That is assuming that metals are where they should be, and are not overvalued or undervalued in general. Personally, I think nickel should be well into the $5 per ounce range once nickel is demonetized from the US monetary system (too valuable to circulate, like gold in '33 and silver in '64)

The US appears to have enough copper (8.1 gram Susan B, Sacagawea, Presidential dollars) to never have to demonetize copper in my lifetime if they should happen to decide to go back on a metal standard.

Brits are demonitizing nickel this year, its too expensive to circulate as a 1 pound coin and they will be culling the smaller denominations immediately.

ZenOps wrote:Copper is correctly priced at a rarity ratio of 5300x ratio to gold, which means copper is just about where it should be at $4/pound.

Silver is undervalued based on rarity, Nickel is also undervalued based on rarity. Assuming gold and copper are where they "should" be, Nickel should be about $2.80 an ounce or so ($45/pound) to catchup. Neodymium at $450 per kilogram was massively overpriced based on rarity (but not overpriced based on supply)

That is assuming that metals are where they should be, and are not overvalued or undervalued in general. Personally, I think nickel should be well into the $5 per ounce range once nickel is demonetized from the US monetary system (too valuable to circulate, like gold in '33 and silver in '64)

The US appears to have enough copper (8.1 gram Susan B, Sacagawea, Presidential dollars) to never have to demonetize copper in my lifetime if they should happen to decide to go back on a metal standard.

Brits are demonitizing nickel this year, its too expensive to circulate as a 1 pound coin and they will be culling the smaller denominations immediately.

Interesting (but, source for bolded)?...I found JJN as a possible investment vehicle...I might take a chance at that, but im pretty dang confused as to its current direction/trend...

I like silver, I really do....it just, seems much more versatile than nickel (which, in my understanding, is an industrial metal heavily tied to the continuity of the growth of the world economy)

I guess part of me is worried about copper because suppose we get rid of all coins down the road...the fed has to be one of the biggest buyers of copper id imagine..wouldnt that effect that value? And the way silver has been bouncing around im a tad skeptical on that also...as for roll searching you cant go wrong though.

I would buy AsE's and flip them since were buying at spot

Nickel is the current world monetary metal. The highest level circulating Euro coins a mix of cupronickel and pure nickel (inner and outer rings) Canadian dollar is also nickel (loonie and toonie)

The British cuprozinc pound (with a fraction of nickel) is similar to the US (mostly unused) copper dollars.

So you can sort of see a war, with the British and US seeming to want to go with copper as a monetary base, and Canada and the Euro wanting a nickel standard. It in many ways parallels the old silver standard war with the gold standard (Europeans used to have gold dollars, but the US began using silver dollars)

Since I'm from Canada and nickel is abundant, I'll champion the nickel standard over a copper standard. Besides: If copper got too high (Say $10+ per pound) the electrical grid of the US would be stolen in a matter of weeks. I don't think the US can afford to let copper get too high, oil is completely another matter - if oil gets too high - people will just be forced to carpool, heh.

Since the question is framed as A or B without any other options.

I'd go with silver. My thinking is that one couold acquire the CU cents over a period of time instead of taking it all in bulk. Likewise the silver could be unloaded much quicker also if needed.

I ran across this link somewhere. Take it for what you will.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/10140035

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_ ... th's_crust

Newly updated production numbers for this year: Copper is about 10x more available than Nickel. Gold is now 6,300x ratio to copper (and that will probably grow, as one has to go deeper to get less and less gold)

Gold and silver are much easier to liquidate. Copper technically must be demonitized (ability to meltdown) before its true value as a metal can be achieved.

Side note: Iron ore has gone from about $12/ton in 2001 to $180/ton in 2011... That is a massive price move that outshines even silver.

And: IF the US were to release a $5 8-gram pure nickel coin, I think it might go over better than the 8-gram copper dollars... But thats just an idea.

silver

Silver
$5000 of silver will be about 10 lbs
$5000 of copper pennies will be about 3400 lbs
Thats a lot of lifting

depends on how much space I was working with. If plenty of space, then I would go with the coppers.

As most people we work on a budget...sometimes i go back and forth in my head to stop sorting copper and just sort and buy silver...then i miss sorting and focus on copper...its just one of those things where i am unsure what i should invest a majority of my money in.

Silver. Many of us already have more copper than we will ever have gold or silver.

If I could get Canadien cents at face (like many of our friends up north) ,I would aquire them, scrap them at a U.S. facility, aquire more and repeat until I got cut off in the process, percentages got low or just got tired of the process. Then I would purchase silver on a dip.

Reasons:

Copper is bulky (hard to bug out with in a SHTF scenario although some will be useful)

Canadien over U.S. because Canadien is #1copper. U.S. is considered bronze and does not have the melt value that many consider it to have( check this out at your local scrapyard) Also Canadien can be melted at the present time U.S. cannot.

Silver is much more recognized for its monetary value than copper (again, some copper is useful) Silver is money copper can be converted to money.

And last but not least, I like the color better

I would probably go with the majority of it in Silver. Truth be told, if silver were more affordable, I would own a lot more than I do now. However, I do like coin roll sorting (even with the filthy pennies). The process is slow, sorting by hand, but I do enjoy the excitement when I find something unique in a roll, either pennies or nickels. I can go to my credit union and order several boxes of pennies, enough to keep me busy sorting for hours. It would be nice to have bags of 90 percent silver too....OH I CAN'T MAKE UP MY MIND!!

tedandcam wrote:If I could get Canadien cents at face (like many of our friends up north) ,I would aquire them, scrap them at a U.S. facility, aquire more and repeat until I got cut off in the process, percentages got low or just got tired of the process. Then I would purchase silver on a dip.

Reasons:

Copper is bulky (hard to bug out with in a SHTF scenario although some will be useful)

Canadien over U.S. because Canadien is #1copper. U.S. is considered bronze and does not have the melt value that many consider it to have( check this out at your local scrapyard) Also Canadien can be melted at the present time U.S. cannot.

Silver is much more recognized for its monetary value than copper (again, some copper is useful) Silver is money copper can be converted to money.

And last but not least, I like the color better

yep. we don't have the good fortune of our northern neighbors. oh well, we get cheaper shipping.

silver is a monetary metal and copper is largely an industrial metal.

if you think the fiat money system is crumbling, then buy silver.

if you think growth in the world economy will increase, buy copper.

copper v. nickel: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13386

It seems like a no brainer to me. Assuming the copper is presorted, you get the pennies at face and flip them.
If you can get a nearly instant 20% return you always must take it.

silver is ALSO an industrial metal! as it gets consumed in solar, medical, and industrial uses, the "scarcity" will become more pronounced.as for copper, look to the police report in your local newspaper. what metal is STOLEN the most?

SoFa wrote:It seems like a no brainer to me. Assuming the copper is presorted, you get the pennies at face and flip them.
If you can get a nearly instant 20% return you always must take it.

+1 I very much agree with this point of view!