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This genie was out of the bottle long ago to many of you but I am starting to make the conclusion myself . Looking at the money and time costs of schlepping around searched coins to banks and the gasoline costs, it is making me think that buying a few dozen generic rounds or ingots off an online discount PM dealer and then selling individually the silver ounces on Ebay may be a very passive and less stressful way to accumulate/subsidize my silver inventory. By my math, I can maybe net 10% profit with a resale of popular ingots or rounds and henceforth every 10 ounces I sell nets me a paid-for ounce. My only concern is getting Ebay buyers that will neg feedback you or want a refund w/o merit. I suppose craigslist could be another method to sell and at least you could have the transactions with less middleman costs and at literally arms length. What do you all think? Finding a 90% or 40% silver half dollar in a $1000 box search barely covers the time and gasoline costs lately. Granted, I look at this like a hobby but getting skunks on half boxes and yes, even nickel boxes lately, makes me think maybe the well is running dry.

In 2012, I've averaged 2+ silvers per box, making $20 per hour CRH. For me to sell on ebay, I've got to get the item at a good price and know the market. Sounds like you have that figured out. If searching for silver isn't worth it to you, might as well try flipping rounds. Anything is better than standing still, stacking wise.

Chief wrote:In 2012, I've averaged 2+ silvers per box, making $20 per hour CRH. For me to sell on ebay, I've got to get the item at a good price and know the market. Sounds like you have that figured out. If searching for silver isn't worth it to you, might as well try flipping rounds. Anything is better than standing still, stacking wise.

The prices I see sellers get on Ebay is very tempting to make a go of casually selling. It does not matter much that spot prices are sub-$28. I see many coins, bars and rounds that fetch $35+ per a troy ounce. In theory, buying a few dozen troy ounces from an online discounter could at least act as buffer if spot prices go up. The pricing is very sticky as spot drops. Seeing $7 premiums is somewhat bizarre. If we go down to ~ $20 spot, methinks we will still see stuff getting nearly $30 per a troy ounce on Ebay. My conclusion is that buyers there just do not care about spot pricing very much. It is a sloppy conclusion to make but many completed auctions attest to it.

JerrySpringer wrote:

Chief wrote:If searching for silver isn't worth it to you, might as well try flipping rounds. Anything is better than standing still, stacking wise.

My conclusion is that buyers there just do not care about spot pricing very much. It is a sloppy conclusion to make but many completed auctions attest to it.

Well, I've formed the opinion that the spot price shouldn't be the same as physical price. Spot price is paper contracts that don't often get delivered, right? Physical price is price in hand. You can be holding x amount of ounces for $xx.xx price. The .999 nature of rounds/bars also carries a premium over junk 90%. Silver is cheap now and keeps going down. Must stack more...

Chief wrote:In 2012, I've averaged 2+ silvers per box, making $20 per hour CRH. For me to sell on ebay, I've got to get the item at a good price and know the market. Sounds like you have that figured out. If searching for silver isn't worth it to you, might as well try flipping rounds. Anything is better than standing still, stacking wise.

Chief is one of the few crh'ers that have actually done better this year than last, with the few exceptions such as chief, yes, I would say almost any alternative is going to be more lucrative. Heck, getting a part time job at mc d's and using your 7.25 per hour for stacking would be smarter than us crh'ers in general this year (again, with few exceptions). I'm either just not very smart or love the thrill of the chase, I thought I knew which one it was, but the longer I go the more I question myself lol.

Chief wrote:Well, I've formed the opinion that the spot price shouldn't be the same as physical price. Spot price is paper contracts that don't often get delivered, right? Physical price is price in hand. You can be holding x amount of ounces for $xx.xx price. The .999 nature of rounds/bars also carries a premium over junk 90%. Silver is cheap now and keeps going down. Must stack more...

BlackOut wrote:Chief is one of the few crh'ers that have actually done better this year than last, with the few exceptions such as chief, yes, I would say almost any alternative is going to be more lucrative. Heck, getting a part time job at mc d's and using your 7.25 per hour for stacking would be smarter than us crh'ers in general this year (again, with few exceptions). I'm either just not very smart or love the thrill of the chase, I thought I knew which one it was, but the longer I go the more I question myself lol.

I tell you what, anymore this CRH for Ag has become a part time job. I want to finish the year doing the volume that I've done so far, but dumping, picking up, opening/sorting, and disposing of the wrappers/boxes all adds up. At some point, finds must come down, right? I cannot see doing this for more than 2 years.
Although, with a few thousand to use, the .65% interest on a CD does look like a joke vs. CRH.

BlackOut wrote:Chief is one of the few crh'ers that have actually done better this year than last, with the few exceptions such as chief, yes, I would say almost any alternative is going to be more lucrative. Heck, getting a part time job at mc d's and using your 7.25 per hour for stacking would be smarter than us crh'ers in general this year (again, with few exceptions). I'm either just not very smart or love the thrill of the chase, I thought I knew which one it was, but the longer I go the more I question myself lol.

My take is that silver is a long-term fiat money hedge and/or hard asset to pass on to heirs. Part of me thinks that we have bottomed in silver price now. Another part of me has the morbid desire to want to see silver plunge to the sub -$20 range. I remember haggling over a $17 price for ASEs a few years ago with a coin dealer. LOL. If silver drops in price quite dramatically, I wonder how many other things will look like they are on sale -ie- will stocks drop in price, gasoline drop, etc.?

Chief wrote:

BlackOut wrote:Chief is one of the few crh'ers that have actually done better this year than last, with the few exceptions such as chief, yes, I would say almost any alternative is going to be more lucrative. Heck, getting a part time job at mc d's and using your 7.25 per hour for stacking would be smarter than us crh'ers in general this year (again, with few exceptions). I'm either just not very smart or love the thrill of the chase, I thought I knew which one it was, but the longer I go the more I question myself lol.

I tell you what, anymore this CRH for Ag has become a part time job. I want to finish the year doing the volume that I've done so far, but dumping, picking up, opening/sorting, and disposing of the wrappers/boxes all adds up. At some point, finds must come down, right? I cannot see doing this for more than 2 years.
Although, with a few thousand to use, the .65% interest on a CD does look like a joke vs. CRH.

It really is and it does wear on you. I don't workout as much as I did pre-crh and the wife gets frustrated because a lot of my free time is spent picking up, dumping, or sorting. I would say about a year to clean out an average size state if you have 2-3 serious crh'ers all pulling from the same area. I've watched my area have a serious decline to almost nill compared to last year, I've watched cards and coins totals appear to drop off significantly, and Bamajoe who had a great year last year is almost finding nothing this year in his area. I think you and adamsp are the only ones posting here that have had significantly better totals this year and I attribute that only to you both being on primarily vigin digging ground, but unfortunately it is time limited as well. There are now too many people pulling from circulation for it to hold up for a long period of time. At some point, the fun will end for all of us with the exception of the occasional cash in of grandpas collection. Might not be a bad thing for me because I think it will come just in time for me to start seeing my infant son really start to grow up an I can take the time to be apart of his life moreso.

BlackOut wrote:It really is and it does wear on you. I don't workout as much as I did pre-crh and the wife gets frustrated because a lot of my free time is spent picking up, dumping, or sorting. I would say about a year to clean out an average size state if you have 2-3 serious crh'ers all pulling from the same area. I've watched my area have a serious decline to almost nill compared to last year, I've watched cards and coins totals appear to drop off significantly, and Bamajoe who had a great year last year is almost finding nothing this year in his area. I think you and adamsp are the only ones posting here that have had significantly better totals this year and I attribute that only to you both being on primarily vigin digging ground, but unfortunately it is time limited as well. There are now too many people pulling from circulation for it to hold up for a long period of time. At some point, the fun will end for all of us with the exception of the occasional cash in of grandpas collection. Might not be a bad thing for me because I think it will come just in time for me to start seeing my infant son really start to grow up an I can take the time to be apart of his life moreso.

For me, I'm single mid-20's, plenty of time to sort in between work, family, and beers with friends. Having a family would put damper on my sorting.
Here in Nebraska, I have noticed a ton of marks from other sorters. Sounds like a lot of our coin comes from KC. Like you said, every once in a while you'll find some VF condition Franklin's or Walkers, dumped from a collection, but not every week. Best of luck.
ETA: Watching your son grow up would be far better than any box of halves.

JerrySpringer wrote:

BlackOut wrote:Chief is one of the few crh'ers that have actually done better this year than last, with the few exceptions such as chief, yes, I would say almost any alternative is going to be more lucrative. Heck, getting a part time job at mc d's and using your 7.25 per hour for stacking would be smarter than us crh'ers in general this year (again, with few exceptions). I'm either just not very smart or love the thrill of the chase, I thought I knew which one it was, but the longer I go the more I question myself lol.

My take is that silver is a long-term fiat money hedge and/or hard asset to pass on to heirs. Part of me thinks that we have bottomed in silver price now. Another part of me has the morbid desire to want to see silver plunge to the sub -$20 range. I remember haggling over a $17 price for ASEs a few years ago with a coin dealer. LOL. If silver drops in price quite dramatically, I wonder how many other things will look like they are on sale -ie- will stocks drop in price, gasoline drop, etc.?

In a way, I have always felt like dollar wise I have been wasting my time pulling silver from circulation because I feel that if the economy ever gets back to pre-recession levels, then the need and desire for pm's will diminish driving gold, silver prices back down, maybe not to where they were in 2002 or so, but lower than they are now. I just feel like the average person will forget all about pm's again until the next hardship thus reducing demand and pricing will fall. Either way, I'm one with it because if prices fall I will just stack more and wait until the next economic collapse. Would anyone care to explain why they feel differently about pm prices if the economy does return to prosperous levels? History has told us that these crisis only happen for a limited time until faith is restored, I don't see this being any different than the 30's or 70's to lead me to believe otherwise, but I don't study these things like some of you other economist do.

I tend to agree with the OP, searched a box of nickels and dimes last night...nadda! Searching on a large scale for silver me is over although I still search the occasional box or two. Now pennies, that's another story.

Right now I'm searching pennies only. I'm keeping some, selling some and converting some sales to silver purchases. My luck searching halves has been limited.

We do it cause it's fun! When it's no longer fun, we stop doing it. If you wanted a strictly money making hobby, you get a job that you enjoy. Or be like the rest of us and get a job that you can tolerate, that gives you enough free time and leftover money to pursue your interests.

George Carlin wrote:Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.

BlackOut wrote:Would anyone care to explain why they feel differently about pm prices if the economy does return to prosperous levels? History has told us that these crisis only happen for a limited time until faith is restored, I don't see this being any different than the 30's or 70's to lead me to believe otherwise, but I don't study these things like some of you other economist do.

Define "prosperous" and you'll have your answer....True prosperity is now hindsight, never to be seen again....debt, taxes, and spending deficits won't ever allow it....
Maybe the present is "faith restored"?.....Like they say, denial is not just a river in Eqypt.....

hags

[quote="BlackOut"][In a way, I have always felt like dollar wise I have been wasting my time pulling silver from circulation because I feel that if the economy ever gets back to pre-recession levels, then the need and desire for pm's will diminish driving gold, silver prices back down, maybe not to where they were in 2002 or so, but lower than they are now. quote]

Don't forget that silver is an industrial metal as well. If/when things turn around, the price of silver should still do well as it's industrial demand increases. In the 70's there was minimal industrial demand. I believe that it is a different game now with electronics.

hags wrote:

BlackOut wrote:Would anyone care to explain why they feel differently about pm prices if the economy does return to prosperous levels? History has told us that these crisis only happen for a limited time until faith is restored, I don't see this being any different than the 30's or 70's to lead me to believe otherwise, but I don't study these things like some of you other economist do.

Define "prosperous" and you'll have your answer....True prosperity is now hindsight, never to be seen again....debt, taxes, and spending deficits won't ever allow it....
Maybe the present is "faith restored"?.....Like they say, denial is not just a river in Eqypt.....

hags

Oh, I am far from denial bud, just simply stating that the economic woes we are experiencing are not the first we have ever experienced and history has show rebounds from each of the previous occurrences and this is still far from the worst ever in history. I would like to believe that pm's are
Going to continue to increase and that is why I stack, I am just skeptical that things are going to continue onward with the trend we have seen the previous 5 years and not the trend of the 15 before that. You nor anyone else has convinced me that either will or will not happen. I am sure a lot of people now will say they predicted us being where we are today, but I am sure that few actually did. In my opinion, only time will tell, not a few morons guessing either way.

I do a little of this, mostly out of boredom and because I live in the boonies (70 miles to a Wal Mart!), where the turnover of coinage at any banks nearby is basically nil. The killer, though, is exorbitant PayPal and Ebay fees. There are some good calculators out there--I use the one at http://www.newlifeauctions.com/calc.html . Fee percentages decrease as you increase the selling price. Just as an example, if an ounce of silver costs you $30.00, you have to turn around and Ebay it for $35.19 (fixed price sale) and charge actual shipping just to break even, which works out to about 16% in fees. Up the ante a bit and go with 10 ounces, costing you $300.00, and your breakeven is 332.93, just under a 10% markup to cover fees. One more level up and $3000.00 in cost translates to $3200.10 to break even with 6.25% in fees. Your total fees will bottom out at above 5% on any tranactions of a manageable size, say under $10k.

The point is that if you're going to do it, you need to be able to handle more than just an ounce at a time if you expect to make it worth your time. Do enough volume this way through the Bay, and you can make about 3-5% profit, without accounting for increase in spot price over time.

I think if you're serious about buying and selling to harvest FRN's to increase the size of your stack, you might be better off starting your own merchant website to avoid Ebay fees. Anyone have numbers on this type of scenario?

I tried this with ebay, and failed horribly. you dont always get the premium. I did better selling here at spot and winning the occasional auction under spot. Of course part of what made that work for me was the ebay bucks and other programs they no longer let work for most metals auctions.

Yeah, that's the primary reason I use ASE's instead of generics--since they're still coins, they're eligible for Ebay Bucks...That and I get them for $2.00 over spot, which is a fairly cheap premium. To compare, the same company offers generic 1 oz rounds at $1.25 over spot. Turning around and selling them on the bay, you're much more likely to make a wide enough spread to profit on the Eagles than you are on the generics. In my experience, that is.