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Have the opportunity to trade gold u.s. eagles for british sovereigns. the trade would be at spot, so i would get 4 sovereigns per eagle plus a little bit of cash. (Sovereigns are .2354 oz). GAE's would be BU, Sovs would be AU, pre-33.

I'm interested in this trade because i think the fractional sizes are more convenient and potentially more liquid. I'm located in the U.S. Is this a favorable trade?

Check out tulving.com for their take on the "premium" of each.

Which I just did and that gives you a premium of $29.52 per ounce for the Sovereigns and $59.95 for the Eagles.

I.e. the Eagles are better.

GAE tend to have higher premiums and interest
British Sovereigns tend to be recognizable, Fractionals are good

So I guess the question is the cash- if it only enough to fill in the gaps at spot, with no premium I would be indifferent. If your getting a premium I would say its a worthwhile deal, if your getting less I would shy away.

And keep in mind on sale side what can you get. Larger $20 Gold pieces would be harder to move (their hard to move now at local shows), but British Sovereigns (like most foreign gold) suffer from being bought back at a discount in where a BU Gold Eagle might get a good buy price.

The deal feels pretty square- depends what you want. Would be nice to be compensated for the BU factor and eagle factor slightly to spot on the cash difference

I know what the price of things are.

I am asking everyone's opinion on the value.

to simplify, would you rather have 1 BU GAE or 4 AU pre-33 sovereigns (to make this easy, assume they are .2354).

I would think you could move the quarter ouncers more easily because they are smaller, but potentially they are less liquid because foreign?

Hi Lemon-

I'm partial to foreign Au myself, so I think the sovs are a good swap, and a fair value. They are about the only foreign coin I would do that with, though. IMO, you should get the chance to cherry pick, though, and be sure to take all the Victoria sovereigns first.

I wouldnt sweat sovs being illiquid, at coin shows around here everyone seems to love them, and anytime I ask about them, they are almost always sold out.

JMO, wags

Playing both sides of the fence here.... lol

On one hand, you seem to be getting less gold in this trade.... so even though you think they might be more liquid due to their fractionality, you will have less buying power due to the amt of gold. Also, I think that in the end, you will be doing yourself a disservice b/c not everyone is familiar with GAEs, let alone British sovereigns.

However, if you already have a bunch of GAEs and want a few sovereigns to round out your collection, then I say go for it!

Sovs are the most heavily counterfeited gold coin in the world. That is well known in the coin biz, and if/when knowledge of this becomes more widely required for transactional use it will become common knowledge. There are ways to successfully detect the counterfeits, but even with that, I fear it will become a trade impediment (it already is, for me) and increase the risk of having sovs rejected or discounted at a critical moment. While I have a few sovs, as well as a few other fracs of several types to spread the risk (French francs, old US 90%, modern US 90% commemoratives, small art rounds), I personally strongly prefer AGEs or Maples for the bulk of gold. JMHO.

assume the gold will be equal, or i will come out of pocket at spot to buy an extra.

pro sovereign

- fractional size
- decent liquidity
- pre-33

con sovereign

- less liquid than GAE
- some counterfeiting stigma, potentially greater stigma in future.

wagsthadog wrote:Hi Lemon-

be sure to take all the Victoria sovereigns first.

why the Victoria sovereigns? Are you suggesting that the King Edward and King George coins are newer and carry less premium?

btw, here is a link to the different designs.

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/heads.html

Lemon Thrower wrote:

wagsthadog wrote:Hi Lemon-

be sure to take all the Victoria sovereigns first.

why the Victoria sovereigns? Are you suggesting that the King Edward and King George coins are newer and carry less premium?

btw, here is a link to the different designs.

http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/heads.html

Wags is alluding to the potential for greater numie value for the older sovs (due to scarcity) as opposed to newer issues. You just don't see that many Vics for sale, most are George or Edward's. I'd be all over this trade, myself. But then again, I think that gold is going to be trading at much higher multiples some day, making the larger pieces impractical and unaffordable for most. Give me the fracs any day of the week. Rich raised some good points worthy of consideration, but I'll take my chances. As a matter of fact, I got rid of all my one ounce eagles long ago.

Happy to trade modern $5 or $10 us gold pieces in 90% for AGE, buffs, or maples. Straight up ounce for ounce. For anyone that thinks their AGEs are too large! PM me.

68Camaro wrote:Happy to trade modern $5 or $10 us gold pieces in 90% for AGE, buffs, or maples. Straight up ounce for ounce. For anyone that thinks their AGEs are too large! PM me.

And I'm willing to swap BU $20 Double Eagles (either St. Gauden's or Liberty Head) for BU pre-1933 fracs straight across (one biggun for four little uns). Send me a PM if interested, I'm looking for $5 or $2.5 pieces, either Indians or Liberty Heads.

Hmmm. Well I'm heading out to dinner now but when I get back I'll look at inventory. Can't remember what I've still got left in pre 33 libs but think I have a stack of $5s or $10s? Wouldn't mind a St g or two in the stead of some of those.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind. Prior to the introduction of the Krugerrand, the Sovereign was the world gold coin. Everybody around the world (except the dumbed down Americans) knows what a Sovereign is. I don't know if they are still doing it, but the U.S. military was issuing our pilots Sovereigns during the first Iraq war as part of their survival gear in case they got shot down.

Like the Krugerrand, it has no denomination on it.

Everybody knows what a Krugerrand is. Even an inbred American backwoods hillbilly knows what a Krugerrand is. He/she may not know who issued it or what it's technical specs are. But at a minimum, they know it is "some kind of gold coin", and that it has some sort of value.

Ask them what an AGE is, they will probably ask if it's related to the bald eagle.

Another thing to keep in the back of your mind. Americans make up less than 5% of the worlds population. There is a whole big world out there who know what Sovereigns and Krugerrands are.

Me personally, I would (and do) own both.

Bluegill wrote:Everybody knows what a Krugerrand is. Even an inbred American backwoods hillbilly knows what a Krugerrand is.

There are tons of Americans who don't know what a Krugerrand is. I would imagine it's the same in other countries.

Bluegill wrote:Just something to keep in the back of your mind. Prior to the introduction of the Krugerrand, the Sovereign was the world gold coin. Everybody around the world (except the dumbed down Americans) knows what a Sovereign is.

that is a good point. FOFOA on his blog tells the story of the King of Saudia Arabia asking to be paid for the original oil concession with 35,000 sovereigns which the King's representative counting each one.