Realcent.org

Snippet from recent Ranting Andy post:

The catalyst for this RANT is reader concerns regarding this passage from Jim Willie's latest newsletter (Hat Trick Letter); of the alleged THEFT of gold coins from an American safety deposit box - and Patriot Act approval of such acts...

THE CIA CONFISCATION HAS BEGUN AT BANK SAFETY DEPOSIT BOXES. THE REPORTED SEIZURES ARE NOT YET WIDESPREAD; BUT EXPECT THEM TO BE SO. THE PATRIOT ACT LEGALLY PERMITS THE THEFTS, WHICH WILL PROVIDE ADDITIONAL GOLD SUPPLY FOR WALL STREET BANKER ROBBER BARONS.

A Steve Quayle subscriber reported the two dozen gold Krugerrands he kept stored in his safety deposit box have been taken, in a bold swipe. The Fifth Third Bank is located in Cincinnati, the site of the sanctioned theft. After the confiscation, the bank manager sheepishly informed the man that a CIA agent was the culprit who cleaned out his supply of gold coins, but all the stored US dollar bills were left untouched in the safety box. Recall broad warnings concerning the rules delineated within the Patriot Act, which forbids usage of bank safety boxes to hold coins, jewelry, or any metal items of wealth. Only documents, contracts, papers, photographs, and other non-metallic objects like a treasured scarf are permitted. They have finally struck, thefts sponsored by the US Government and its security agency overseers. Expect the location of thefts to grow much wider, with more prevalent reports.


First thing on Monday, on the "to do" list.

Is this true? Does the Patriot Act actually make it illegal to store coins in safety deposit boxes? Can someone please provide the original source from the act?

I think it's a bad idea to keep anything of value in a bank, but this scenario seems a bit far-fetched.

The gold goes missing while cash is left behind? Why would cash be in a safe deposit box in the first place? Is there any plausible reason to store cash in a bank safe deposit box vs a bank savings account? Doesn't it sound like that detail was added to the story for dramatic impact?

beauanderos wrote:the bank manager sheepishly informed the man that a CIA agent was the culprit who cleaned out his supply of gold coins,

I also would like more conformation of this actually happening. Could it be that the bank manager was just duped by someone posing as a CIA agent?

You can adapt the viewpoint that such warnings are alarmist, which may, in time, prove either to be naive or well-founded. Best case scenario, you have a secure spot to store items of high value. Worst case scenario, such "safe" deposit boxes are not safe at all. If you're correct to be concerned, then you inconvenience yourself in finding somewhere else to store what was held there. If such Patriot Act crap does develop, they can get others valuables, yours will already be gone.

While it may seem paranoid to imagine that such theft can occur, it is naive to imagine that it never would. I'd kick myself if I could have prevented the loss of $100,000 in metal, and did nothing to avert it, although I was aware that there was a remote chance that it could be taken. Why take the chance?

OK this is scarey! But, doesn't it take both keys to open a box. Or, could they have drilled it open, replaced the locks and when the guy returns, tell him "Oh, by the way, here's your new key. Bad man was here and gotcha"

My money is on Henrysmedford to be the first to post the appropriate text from Patriot Act.

I would assume there is a LOT of cash in safety deposit boxes. When there is a run on the bank scenario and the tellers have no more cash to hand out...the only ones they will let in the bank are safe deposit customers.

I guess I'm glad my boat with all my PMs sunk in that lake

I is my understanding not to keep money in a safe deposit. First no insurance on it. Second, if you die, the box is sealed, only wills and life insurance policies can be removed. Third, if the bank is closed you are out of luck. The last place to keep money or PMs.

beauanderos wrote: Why take the chance?

EXACTLY if I had any gold or silver I certainly would not keep it in a safe deposit box!!!

I wouldn't keep anything in a SDB even if the bank paid interest for using one! Call me paranoid but I've never trusted banks with my important docs & PM's. Worthless fiat is one thing, but not important stuff!

I agree, there is a lot of sensationalization of news to garner reader interest... they like to post headlines that are provocative or controversial. Do your own research to verify if the stories have merit.

http://silverdoctors.com/gold-confiscation-begins-report-of-2-dozen-gold-krugerrands-stolen-from-safety-deposit-box-by-cia/

ok, gotta admit... after having just read the link I posted... it kinda smacks of an urban myth.

beauanderos wrote:You can adapt the viewpoint that such warnings are alarmist, which may, in time, prove either to be naive or well-founded. Best case scenario, you have a secure spot to store items of high value. Worst case scenario, such "safe" deposit boxes are not safe at all. If you're correct to be concerned, then you inconvenience yourself in finding somewhere else to store what was held there. If such Patriot Act crap does develop, they can get others valuables, yours will already be gone.

While it may seem paranoid to imagine that such theft can occur, it is naive to imagine that it never would. I'd kick myself if I could have prevented the loss of $100,000 in metal, and did nothing to avert it, although I was aware that there was a remote chance that it could be taken. Why take the chance?

Agree. A SDB is ok for wills, trust papers, etc. Not money or metals...for the reasons others have stated (bank closings, unexpected death, inaccessibility at time of greatest need)...but not because the CIA could be coming for it.

Just imagine for a moment the mainstream media confirming and breaking that story. 95% of all boxes would be cancelled within a week.

Hopefully Henry or someone gives us facts.

At least 2 points above are NOT true:

1. It is untrue that safety deposit boxes are "sealed upon death". You can include them in your will or they are automatically "assumed to transfer" with other property if you are married.

2. There are several companies that will sell insurance on coins that have preferential rates if the coins are stored in your safety deposit boxes. Ergo there are likely other private insurances available for other types of assets in SDB's as well.


That said, if in fact the Patriot Act makes it illegal I'm definitely stopping immediately so someone figure it out please

Too many things seem off on this story.
Why is the CIA operating in the US? Shouldn't the FBI or DHS have confiscated these coins?
How did they know there was gold there? Was each box searched?
Why was this man not notified of the seizure?
Why wasn't everything taken?

This story doesn't sound real to me.

beauanderos wrote:ok, gotta admit... after having just read the link I posted... it kinda smacks of an urban myth.

Yeah I remember reading about this a few weeks ago. The commenters tore it apart pretty quickly. I'm worried about a lot of things, but the CIA emptying my safe deposit box isn't one of them.

I'm told by my bank that contents of my SDB are insured; however I would have to list the contents, which is not something I'm comfortable with. I also agree that if my bank closed, all bets are off.

this is peripherally related... myth debunking http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/safedeposit.asp

beauanderos wrote:this is peripherally related... myth debunking http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/safedeposit.asp

Thanks, so it appears that it is NOT illegal to hold anything that isn't against your banks TOS in the boxes then.

That's good. I can sleep now.

here's another one http://about.ag/SafeDepositBoxes.htm

beauanderos wrote:here's another one http://about.ag/SafeDepositBoxes.htm

Thanks. /endpanic.

I can believe it, though probably not involving the CIA. I'm no lawyer, but I do recall that the Patriot Act does allow sneak & peak warrants, gag orders and other tools that could, realistically, allow such things to happen and they wouldn't have to notify a person until after the fact.. if ever. If it involves alledged money laundering, or basically any federal crime, then safety deposit box contents could be considered contraband and subject to seizure.

The last time I actually went to open a box was a few years ago. I gave up and walked out in disgust. They had a federal form they wanted me to fill out.. No way.

algae21 wrote:The last time I actually went to open a box was a few years ago. I gave up and walked out in disgust. They had a federal form they wanted me to fill out.. No way.

That's a good argument for "private" storage facilities.

I've been tempted a few times to buy an old bank building to use as an office. Being able to rent out the former SDB's would be a nice income stream, and who wouldn't want their own vault?

Sometimes the .gov plants rumors to gauge public reaction.

And although I do not have the statute handy, I remember from somewhere that storing FRNs in a SDB is illegal.

Engineer wrote:

algae21 wrote:The last time I actually went to open a box was a few years ago. I gave up and walked out in disgust. They had a federal form they wanted me to fill out.. No way.

That's a good argument for "private" storage facilities.

I've been tempted a few times to buy an old bank building to use as an office. Being able to rent out the former SDB's would be a nice income stream, and who wouldn't want their own vault?

You could be right. Around me there is only 1 bank (BofA and Well's Fargo where I have accounts) that had available boxes. The others have long waiting lists.

last time I had a SDB was over 20 years ago...that bank failed and my contents came in the mail.

My buddy owns an office building that had a bank in it, He was talking about renting out the SDB's with no strings since there isn't a bank there anymore. I will call him next week and see how that is going.

tedandcam wrote:
My money is on Henrysmedford to be the first to post the appropriate text from Patriot Act.

Thanks for the vote you can read the act here. http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
And here the FDIC thoughts http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/news/cnspr97/sfdpstbx.html


No place is safe.

One of the banks we go to had all of there boxes broken into. see -- http://realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5769&hilit=+chase#p53986

And up the road from us someone lost $262,000 in gold buried in her yard see -- http://realcent.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15704&hilit=+ashland