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Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:34 pm
by beauanderos
No, this isn't a post about Henrysmedford's son, though you might be fooled by the title.

Years ago, back in late 2003 in fact, after I had begun to stack in the spring... with silver at $4.30 an ounce and gold at $322, I rapidly grew bored with plain old 90% junk. I mean, how many bags of it can you amass and still enjoy assembling multiple sets of each denomination? So, I began purchasing Franklin Mint sets, both .999 and .925 (sterling silver) ... just becuz... they are nifty. The detailed engravings on most of them, the marvelous depictions of historical men, women, and events, are enough to take your breath away if you're lucky enough to own a set or two... and if you've grown tired of decapitated presidents.

I figured back then, that if I was purchasing them for seventy to eighty percent of their melt value (common at the time) then I wouldn't be hurt holding onto them, despite the fact that they are somewhat despised in numie circles as tawdry "make-a-buck-off-the-unwitting-public" schemes, and that they are sterling, which somehow makes them harder to smelt than less pure junk silver? And thus less valuable? Meh... I'm not buying that. My reasoning hasn't changed since my original buys, and recent events have made my foresight then seem all the more prescient. Buying only pre-1980, and thus pre-Big Melt Silver, makes these limited edition sets even scarcer than one might easily assume from production numbers, or their frequency for sale on feebay. Some of these sets might actually be becoming downright rare! :shock:

Always the redheaded stepchild of stackers, drawing more revulsion than war nickels, these widely mocked sets may yet have their day in the sun. Consider two compelling reasons that this could occur.

1) Franklin Mint sets were never issued as currency, nor meant to circulate in any sense as pieces worth bartering. Thus they make an ideal form of silver for hoarding by the crafty as a coyote under the radar silver stacker who fears that confiscation of silver and gold could someday occur. Should that happen, do you really think they're coming after your Franklin Mint sterling silver set of mini-automobiles too? Really?

2) A wave of counterfeit coins (they've been around for a decade, but only recently seem to be getting acknowledged as they continue gaining more public exposure) is beginning to besiege the silver investment pool. Other threads have covered the extent of the production numbers and breadth of coin types being duplicated, but what they haven't discussed is what one may imply from these events, were one to employ a bit of critical thinking. What "coins" would be most likely to be scorned by the Chinese in their drive to profit by fabricating faux products? They will push with their main emphasis into producing the most "popular" type coins sought after by investors... Morgan's, ASE's, junk numies, etc. They WILL NOT try to imitate 200 piece Franklin Mint sets of locomotives, sailing ships, scenes from the American Revolution, etc, that few consider worth having, as they can MUCH more easily make coin by making coins.

And one more

3) You can always melt it down for its troy ounce content if there are no other buyers around that appreciate it for its own merits when it comes time for you to sell.

So... FM sets represent a hoardable form of silver, undervalued, frequently underpriced, and very possibly the least likely form of silver to ever be counterfeited or confiscated.

I don't think I'll sell mine anytime soon, thank you :mrgreen:

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:40 pm
by dakota1955
some new and interesting thoughts

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:58 pm
by TwoPenniesEarned
I don't think anyone here would disparage FM products at melt. They're just not worth what FM sold them for. By the time you've bought the set for melt, the original buyer has long since realized their horrible mistake in buying it.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:57 pm
by Z00
.925 is often overlooked. I recently got some sterling chains (20) @ 1.3 gram/ea for less than a $1/ea.

I have some cool FM rounds also

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:22 pm
by SilverDragon72
I have a FM round....made from pure BRONZE! :lol: It was a commemorative round celebrating the year 2000...

It's cool, though. I used to collect other things from the Franklin Mint. Nothing to do with PMs. The Mood Dragon series (yes, I still have all of them)!

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:53 pm
by scyther
Interesting analysis. If I ever see some for a good price, maybe I'll buy it.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:21 pm
by OneBiteAtATime
QUICK, EVERYONE! Sell your Franklin Mint Crap to Ray before he changes his mind!!!! :lol:

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:34 pm
by beauanderos
OneBiteAtATime wrote:QUICK, EVERYONE! Sell your Franklin Mint Crap to Ray before he changes his mind!!!! :lol:

Sure, bring it on

200% of melt value :shock:




at 2003 prices :lol:

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:50 pm
by OneBiteAtATime
Just ribbin' ya. It is sound logic. Wish I'd have been buying at 2003 prices.

:shifty: They only buy plasma ever so often, y'know. :shifty:

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:18 am
by Lemon Thrower
the problem i have with FM is that as a buyer you can never got on the same page as the seller. they always think their stuff is worth 200% of melt, lol.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:36 am
by beauanderos
Lemon Thrower wrote:the problem i have with FM is that as a buyer you can never got on the same page as the seller. they always think their stuff is worth 200% of melt, lol.

don't buy from living sellers. Estate sales or consignment sales, or ebay without reserves.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:53 am
by pennypicker
I've always liked silver products made by both The Franklin Mint & The Washington Mint. However years from now in a SHTF scenerio when the average Joe will be using silver for barter the average person will not recogize and will not have any clue as to whether these pretty & unusual silver items are in fact real--even if they are stamped.

Counterfeiting will be rampant by then and even ASE's will cause people to question their authenticity. This is why in such trying times, should they ever occur, I will feel most comfortable bartering with average circulated Franklin halves & Mercury dimes. Of course these will be counterfeited as well to a degree but I strongly feel that the "average joe" will feel more confident accepting these two forms of silver (they must be average circulated) than any other form of silver available.

And if you really want to get picky on what will fall in the category of "the most trusted" forms of authentic silver then I vote for the '61, '62, & '63 proof sets. You can pick (less than desireable looking sets) today for roughly 35% over spot and a counterfeiter would really have to be desperate to invest the extra time & money to reproduce all five coins with a proof appearance as well as reproduce that intricate pattern in the government cello packaging. So when silver is $100 or $200 an ounce and above and counterfeiting is rampant I will be quite confident in accepting in barter a '61, '62 or '63 proof set from anyone that I didn't know. :thumbup:

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:03 pm
by SilverDragon72
pennypicker wrote:I've always liked silver products made by both The Franklin Mint & The Washington Mint. However years from now in a SHTF scenerio when the average Joe will be using silver for barter the average person will not recogize and will not have any clue as to whether these pretty & unusual silver items are in fact real--even if they are stamped.

Counterfeiting will be rampant by then and even ASE's will cause people to question their authenticity. This is why in such trying times, should they ever occur, I will feel most comfortable bartering with average circulated Franklin halves & Mercury dimes. Of course these will be counterfeited as well to a degree but I strongly feel that the "average joe" will feel more confident accepting these two forms of silver (they must be average circulated) than any other form of silver available.

And if you really want to get picky on what will fall in the category of "the most trusted" forms of authentic silver then I vote for the '61, '62, & '63 proof sets. You can pick (less than desireable looking sets) today for roughly 35% over spot and a counterfeiter would really have to be desperate to invest the extra time & money to reproduce all five coins with a proof appearance as well as reproduce that intricate pattern in the government cello packaging. So when silver is $100 or $200 an ounce and above and counterfeiting is rampant I will be quite confident in accepting in barter a '61, '62 or '63 proof set from anyone that I didn't know. :thumbup:



Do the counterfeited coins make a distinct silver sound when dropped or ping tested?

I have no experience with any fakes yet, and hope to keep it that way. I like to think I'm doing my DD.

How sophisticated are the fakes these days? I know that most of them are trying to replicate key date
and other Numi coins...for now. Obviously that trend will change in the future as silver becomes more
expensive and rare.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:08 pm
by beauanderos
SilverDragon72 wrote:
pennypicker wrote:I've always liked silver products made by both The Franklin Mint & The Washington Mint. However years from now in a SHTF scenerio when the average Joe will be using silver for barter the average person will not recogize and will not have any clue as to whether these pretty & unusual silver items are in fact real--even if they are stamped.

Counterfeiting will be rampant by then and even ASE's will cause people to question their authenticity. This is why in such trying times, should they ever occur, I will feel most comfortable bartering with average circulated Franklin halves & Mercury dimes. Of course these will be counterfeited as well to a degree but I strongly feel that the "average joe" will feel more confident accepting these two forms of silver (they must be average circulated) than any other form of silver available.

And if you really want to get picky on what will fall in the category of "the most trusted" forms of authentic silver then I vote for the '61, '62, & '63 proof sets. You can pick (less than desireable looking sets) today for roughly 35% over spot and a counterfeiter would really have to be desperate to invest the extra time & money to reproduce all five coins with a proof appearance as well as reproduce that intricate pattern in the government cello packaging. So when silver is $100 or $200 an ounce and above and counterfeiting is rampant I will be quite confident in accepting in barter a '61, '62 or '63 proof set from anyone that I didn't know. :thumbup:



Do the counterfeited coins make a distinct silver sound when dropped or ping tested?

I have no experience with any fakes yet, and hope to keep it that way. I like to think I'm doing my DD.

How sophisticated are the fakes these days? I know that most of them are trying to replicate key date
and other Numi coins...for now. Obviously that trend will change in the future as silver becomes more
expensive and rare.

go to the dedicated section on counterfeits and read up. Education is the best deterrent.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:35 pm
by BamaJoe
You're behind the curve Ray, I was buying FM stuff in the early/mid 70's. :lol:

Actually at the time for a teenager there wasn't alot of choice. It was either FM (or a few other places like it) or actual older government coins if you wanted to buy the shiny stuff. No such things as Eagles, Maples, etc. at the time.

My very first gold purchase was from FM - a 1976 100 Balboa Republic of Panama uncirculated when it was issued, I keep it close to my desk so I can look at it often. While I was also buying 90%, I also got a fair bit of FM silver - both single coins and sets. One of my favorites was the bank collection. It was 50 ignots and each one featured a main bank from each of the 50 states. I still dig it out about once a year and look at it - not really sure why I like it now so much, maybe it just represents a different time. Alot of those banks are gone now.

PS: And who could forget the huge 20 Balboa silvers - almost 4 oz of silver in those suckers. Got two of those from FM.

Re: Hanging Onto Franklin for Dear Life

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 pm
by TwoPenniesEarned
BamaJoe wrote:One of my favorites was the bank collection. It was 50 ignots and each one featured a main bank from each of the 50 states.


I'm surprised the set didn't steal from you in some way :P