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What are some of your thoughts about investing in PCGS perfect 70 graded coins? I've contemplated picking some of these up to add to my collection.

But are they worth the high premium? Silver bullion ASEs is what I have in mind.

First Strike and or Early Release.

Just an opinion.. but I find the pseudo numi modern bullion a bit odd. Personally I doubt they will retain their premiums for the long haul. Id buy high quality older coins instead. go look around, You can find perfect ASEs all over the place. They are apparently very common, with presumably most of them still sitting in monster boxes and rolls to be potentially slabbed later. If you want a high end morgan or peace dollar or other 90% though? Your going to have to shop at specific spots and there are way fewer of them to go around.

Not trying to dissuade you, they might be the best buy ever, but I doubt it myself.

The problem is it's hard to gauge how rare the MS70 bullion versions are / will be.
Like Treetop said, there could be millions of them sitting in monster boxes. If the premiums go up, more will get graded because there were millions and tens of millions of them minted.
The collectible versions (proofs, reverse proofs and burnished) are a different matter. There's a much more limited pool of those still in raw state.
I think the best bet is to look at the coins with limited mintage and only then look at how how many have graded 70.
As for First Strike, it's not that big a deal right now. The regular blue labels have a great established following so I wouldn't pay extra for First Strike.

I've been thinking about these again. Any other opinions?

Treetop wrote:Just an opinion.. but I find the pseudo numi modern bullion a bit odd. Personally I doubt they will retain their premiums for the long haul. Id buy high quality older coins instead. go look around, You can find perfect ASEs all over the place. They are apparently very common, with presumably most of them still sitting in monster boxes and rolls to be potentially slabbed later. If you want a high end morgan or peace dollar or other 90% though? Your going to have to shop at specific spots and there are way fewer of them to go around.

Not trying to dissuade you, they might be the best buy ever, but I doubt it myself.

Good point.

SoFa wrote:The problem is it's hard to gauge how rare the MS70 bullion versions are / will be.
Like Treetop said, there could be millions of them sitting in monster boxes. If the premiums go up, more will get graded because there were millions and tens of millions of them minted.
The collectible versions (proofs, reverse proofs and burnished) are a different matter. There's a much more limited pool of those still in raw state.
I think the best bet is to look at the coins with limited mintage and only then look at how how many have graded 70.
As for First Strike, it's not that big a deal right now. The regular blue labels have a great established following so I wouldn't pay extra for First Strike.

Yep.. Labels, Labels, Labels... You have to find the rare label to make that game work. If you are going after 70's in the ASE start with the low population
The term population is what you are missing. Population not mintage #'s.
For example, 2002 had 10,539,026 bullion strikes. Out of that PCGS had 54 at MS-70. Only 9 were FS label. (#'s maybe now more) That beats out any set # which has many 70's. Heck the 25th Anniversary Set has like 16,000+ MS-70 "sets"...
2012 had 33,742,500 bullion strikes and 54,500+ are MS-70...

So you see. look for the very low population and not mintage is what I say. I'm slowly getting tubes and looking and if I think I might have found one I'll send it in. So far, all 69's.. but I'll get better at it.

... and one more thing. ASE won't be around forever. Once they change it, game on...

waste of money

... a 2002 MS-70 lists for $1995 at Apmex. Sorting is sorting...

SilverDragon72 wrote:What are some of your thoughts about investing in PCGS perfect 70 graded coins? I've contemplated picking some of these up to add to my collection.

But are they worth the high premium? Silver bullion ASEs is what I have in mind.

First Strike and or Early Release.

I have debated this idea as well. I started aquiring NGC as well as PCGS first strike and Early releases within the past year. I have also done the same with Panda's. Only MS 70. I dont see the beneift of aquiring anything lower than perfection with these coins. Since I'm not a Numismatic collector per se, i dont see the market being willing to purchase these lower grades down the road.

Just my two cents.

I'd say not really worth the higher premium. I have about 30-40 slabbed in varying grades, I check the prices, and not seeing them going up any. Slabbed coins will remain popular, maybe even get more popular. Still, many old timers will still say, son .. that's just bullion rounds, it's often you'll see/here people complaining of the costs of grading moderns, and I hear grading prices are on the rise.

Still, buying moderns in MS-70 the year they come out is the cheapest way to get them, start rewinding the years, and see how much the series your collecting after is getting, usually, real expensive, even in the lower grades, usually it's mintage and variety that demand the dollars, and the rare gem with the high grade and low population going for insane prices.

On these forums, time and time again I meet people who watch the prices of slabbed moderns real close, and when the market demands it they hunt down modern bullion for grading, grade em, sell em and make money. Many days, I don't see the value added, I see hype and population numbers that NGC/PCGS create and a whole lot of promotion behind slabbed, still, the hobby could use all the hype it can get.

Don't get me wrong, TPG authentication has it's place.

A nice addition of opinions! Always good to see what others are thinking.

reddirtcoins wrote:... a 2002 MS-70 lists for $1995 at Apmex. Sorting is sorting...

Wow! So imagine what a 2013 MS-70 could be worth in 10 years. It could be quite a bit, who knows.

ASE's in MS-70 are like the following:

Beachfront property
Caviar
Concert tickets where the lead singer from your favorite rock band is in his 60's and sounds like he is on his death bed

In other words, they are overpriced. I realize that some overpriced things can get even more expensive, but you are not talking about true value then. You are talking about speculation.

If you found a tougher date silver coin with, say, $10 of silver that was selling for $15-20 because it is a tougher and legitimately rarer date, that would be much less speculative than an American Eagle where millions were minted that is selling for several thousand dollars because it is an MS-70. Most people cannot tell the difference between an MS-69 (super common and no real premium at all for the condition) and an MS-70 (huge premium). All you need is one story (or even a hot rumor) about some well heeled multi-millionaire who decides to slab every single American Eagle from a random sealed Monster Box. If even 10-20 of the coins came back as MS-70's, I imagine the price could plummet (and perhaps for all dates of ASE's) because that would be an indicator that they really aren't likely that rare. MS-70 ASE's are, according to many that I've spoken with, a lottery ticket, not a real investment.

If you do, consider or look into fractional gold & platinum Eagles. Some have very low populations

johnbrickner wrote:If you do, consider or look into fractional gold & platinum Eagles. Some have very low populations

+1

If you're going to pay a numi premium, do it on a coin that was minted by the thousands rather than millions.

Engineer wrote:

johnbrickner wrote:If you do, consider or look into fractional gold & platinum Eagles. Some have very low populations

+1

If you're going to pay a numi premium, do it on a coin that was minted by the thousands rather than millions.

That is a good idea! I might just have to check it out.

johnbrickner wrote:If you do, consider or look into fractional gold & platinum Eagles. Some have very low populations

Amen Brother! The platinum Eagles just might be a very good investment in a reasonable amount of time.

Ooh!

Platinum eagle? Another good idea! I'd have to get a fractional one though....