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beautiful day, putting in the posts and woven wire, all of it for the sheep fold....SO, heres the question, a leg of lamb...store bought...trades for what? 6-8 a lb? and they're 3 to 5 lbs.

hypothetical question, lets just I got a Byootiful Leg of Lamb, with your name on it.....5 lbs.....would you give me, an ASE for that?

(its a hypothetical.....you can figure using beef, or pork as well...ground or cuts.....)

alright, i'm out of here.....n.

At first I read that as "ground or cats".

Leaving the butcher the other day, I realized I'd just spent 5 rolls of Roosevelts on a quarter of a cow.

Leaving the butcher the other day, I realized I'd just spent 5 rolls of Roosevelts on a quarter of a cow.

My grandfather was a butcher. So that makes my father a son of a butcher!

Sure I would. While I've never "sold" pm's for cash I"ve done a number of deals with them. Usually something I sold and received pm's as payment - including a house I sold for silver rounds.

It is good to note that in the bulk of the world lamb (and goat) are more common then cattle. (they are more efficient at turning biomass to meat) Which doesnt matter in a way since they are as rare in the states as they are compared to cattle but in a way such animals should be valued UNDER beef. Obviously local rarity plays a role, but I think this is worth noting.

Whatever the price though, your leg of lamb is REAL as is silver and is worth some amount of silver without a doubt.

Sure, we love good lamb! Or I could trade you a pre-agreed quantity of time/labor on your farm.

We all have different reasons for stacking. One of mine is for the possibility of using it for trade someday in a SHTF scenario.

Hm yeah I might. Lamb is one of my favorite meats...

The sheeeep all get prettier at closin' time
They all begin to look like ASEs

I'll trade you some salmon I caught.
Actually I think that a ASE for any 5 pounds of top quality fresh meat is a fine deal. Never tried leg of lamb.

blackrabbit wrote:I'll trade you some salmon I caught.
Actually I think that a ASE for any 5 pounds of top quality fresh meat is a fine deal. Never tried leg of lamb.

it was just theory....based on TODAYS value. Leg of Lamb runs 7.99 a lb avg...NZ origin....Rib Eye Beef on sale runs from 4.99 (extreme sale) all the way to 12.99 a lb...TODAY

Sirloin cut.....3.99 (whole in the bag) to 6.99-7.99.......85% lean burger meat is running, 2.99 to 3.39...all retail

ASE retail is MAYBE 29 to 34 a toz.

here's the question, assuming you're not near production.....what "gives" first?...the price of meat, or the price of silver?.....consider I don't "know" you....what if I said, TWO Eagles for 5 lbs of animal meat protein?....its something to ponder.

for instance, a 10 lb bag, of Krusteaz, ready made, pancake flour (my newest, most favorite treat) costs 7.74 the 10# bag. 77 cents the pound....but whats IT REALLY WORTH?

now, unless you buy, air tight containers, and take it from that paper bag, the shelf life is what, 6 months max?...maybe less?

you see, I spent a similar amount, buying nice plastic container, air tight...and bought a lot of it.....also what I've bought, a few years back, is one of the hand grain mills, the good ones, made in the US, it was 400 usd plus...because the wheat "berry" 'keeps', stored correctly, for 25 years. I kid you not.

that's a sound purchase, in my mind. What I always try to do and 'wargame' out, is what things will cost in coinage, POST DOLLAR....and said coinage can be silver, copper and cupro-nickel.

a gallon of gas? $1 FV of 90%?....what about water? Many of you might live in areas, where you CANNOT drink out the tap, you buy "bottled" water right?....whats THAT worth?

these are just things I think about, and I'm NOT talking "doom". i'm talking "hard times". I think a lot of folks on the net, even in the "prepper" or "doomer" communities, got "doom", mixed up with "hard times"...to ME, "doom" is a 10-20 nuke hit exchange....OR say, the electrical grid going down for more than 4 weeks...say for MONTHS....that's "doom"....a lot of people dying bad deaths. The dollar going twiggy, civil unrest, food shortages, is not "doom"...that's "hard times".

BIG difference the way I see it....am I wrong?

I wouldn't say wrong, but I think the electrical grid going down is more on the level of a food shortage than a nuclear war. That's about as bad as it gets, other than maybe a really bad disease epidemic.

scyther wrote:I wouldn't say wrong, but I think the electrical grid going down is more on the level of a food shortage than a nuclear war. That's about as bad as it gets, other than maybe a really bad disease epidemic.

that's the one I forgot....disease epidemic. thanks, slipped my mind.

Say, you up late too? crazy as I am,huh?

I got sleep disorder like there's no tomorrow, but being retired...hey, I SET the hours round here.

Plus, there's something I really like about zero dark hundred...the world is still. Where i'm at.....not a sound, MAYBE a pack of coyotes will start shrieking, but that's about it.

go check out the Matt Taibibi articles I posted....that'll get your blood boiling. best to you Scyth, neil

neilgin1 wrote:

scyther wrote:I wouldn't say wrong, but I think the electrical grid going down is more on the level of a food shortage than a nuclear war. That's about as bad as it gets, other than maybe a really bad disease epidemic.

that's the one I forgot....disease epidemic. thanks, slipped my mind.

Say, you up late too? crazy as I am,huh?

I got sleep disorder like there's no tomorrow, but being retired...hey, I SET the hours round here.

Plus, there's something I really like about zero dark hundred...the world is still. Where i'm at.....not a sound, MAYBE a pack of coyotes will start shrieking, but that's about it.

Yeah, I'm up late almost every night. Been like this for about 5 years now. Even back when I had to get up early for stuff, I would just stay up all night, sleep a couple hours, then wake up early and take a nap when I got back. Now I don't have anything to do early in the day (just one night class a few days a week) so I don't even have to do that anymore. I'm pretired. Retired from being a full time student, still need to get a job!

Yeah dark nights are cool. Too bad I live in a suburb and all the street light around here prevent it from ever really getting dark, especially when there's snow on the ground, but even when there's not.

I don't know, as long as I can still trade FRNs for groceries I don't see why I'd trade silver... Unless it could be gotten with a 20% plus premium to my side for trading my silver, and I knew replacement silver was readily available.

However in SHTF or hard times, you should have your own preps, canned foods to start, plans for sourcing water etc...

It has been mentioned many times the silver/gold is to preserve your wealth through the hard times. If you are in a position where you have to trade silver for a rare commodity which you are forced to purchase (IE food/water/shelter), you will be gouged, perhaps not as much as using FRN's, but you will not be doing well for long if you are forced to use your silver to survive.

neilgin1 wrote:

blackrabbit wrote:I'll trade you some salmon I caught.
Actually I think that a ASE for any 5 pounds of top quality fresh meat is a fine deal. Never tried leg of lamb.

. . .

ASE retail is MAYBE 29 to 34 a toz.

here's the question, assuming you're not near production.....what "gives" first?...the price of meat, or the price of silver?.....consider I don't "know" you....what if I said, TWO Eagles for 5 lbs of animal meat protein?....its something to ponder . . .

you see, I spent a similar amount, buying nice plastic container, air tight...and bought a lot of it.....also what I've bought, a few years back, is one of the hand grain mills, the good ones, made in the US, it was 400 usd plus...because the wheat "berry" 'keeps', stored correctly, for 25 years. I kid you not.

that's a sound purchase, in my mind. What I always try to do and 'wargame' out, is what things will cost in coinage, POST DOLLAR....and said coinage can be silver, copper and cupro-nickel.

a gallon of gas? $1 FV of 90%?....what about water? Many of you might live in areas, where you CANNOT drink out the tap, you buy "bottled" water right?....whats THAT worth?

these are just things I think about, . . . The dollar going twiggy, civil unrest, food shortages, is not "doom"...that's "hard times".

BIG difference the way I see it....am I wrong?

Some more great thoughts coming from you Neil. If I had to bottom line it people will pay whatever they have to, to survive. I wouldn't give you an ASE for the lamb, yet. Not while the beans, rice, legumes, wheat berries, barley, oats and the rest are still in my larder. I'd say it would depend on what stage of preparedness the individual or community is.

The Unprepared will give you what ever you ask. Completed Lifeboat strategy will give you individuals who would more likely trade your needs for theirs. Like farm work for leg-O-lamb or something like that.

Moving up the scale would be something like Earth Steward. Some one who has the homestead up and running in a self-sufficient/reliant manner. More likely the Earth Steward is reaching out beyond the "self-survival" mode and has contacts in the community who have strengths where the Steward does not. Possibly lives in a community put together with this in mind. This being a self-sufficient/reliant community with many individuals with many skills necessary for the community.

If things don't collapse in the near future and we continue our slow decline we will see communities reaching out to other ones in an attempt to organize on a regional level. It would take a region to go "green tech" where all food, water, energy, housing, clothing, etc. is sustainable for all the human beings in the organized communities.

Something like on a Cuba level. In 2007, The World Wildlife Fund's Living Planet Report claims Cuba the only true sustainable country in the world.

So I guess what I'm tryingto say Neil is at the Steward level or higher, there is likely a community that would be more than happy to have you join them since you got your "stuff" together. And to me, that would be worth more than an ASE for 5 lbs.

scyther wrote:

neilgin1 wrote:

scyther wrote:I wouldn't say wrong, but I think the electrical grid going down is more on the level of a food shortage than a nuclear war. That's about as bad as it gets, other than maybe a really bad disease epidemic.

Yeah dark nights are cool. Too bad I live in a suburb and all the street light around here prevent it from ever really getting dark, especially when there's snow on the ground, but even when there's not.

yeh...it IS "too bad" you live in the suburbs.....frigging FLEE my brother, FLEE....just like an episode of "The Walking Dead" flee....FLEE!......dark nights become more "cool".....

gonna come a day when urban/Suburban dwellers envy rural living.....but only if its "your thing"....some people just like that lifestyle, urban/sub. to me?...looking ahead? living cheek to jowl in hard times, are made worse....just my take.

johnbrickner wrote:

neilgin1 wrote:
. . .

ASE retail is MAYBE 29 to 34 a toz.

here's the question, assuming you're not near production.....what "gives" first?...the price of meat, or the price of silver?.....consider I don't "know" you....what if I said, TWO Eagles for 5 lbs of animal meat protein?....its something to ponder . . .

you see, I spent a similar amount, buying nice plastic container, air tight...and bought a lot of it.....also what I've bought, a few years back, is one of the hand grain mills, the good ones, made in the US, it was 400 usd plus...because the wheat "berry" 'keeps', stored correctly, for 25 years. I kid you not.

that's a sound purchase, in my mind. What I always try to do and 'wargame' out, is what things will cost in coinage, POST DOLLAR....and said coinage can be silver, copper and cupro-nickel.

a gallon of gas? $1 FV of 90%?....what about water? Many of you might live in areas, where you CANNOT drink out the tap, you buy "bottled" water right?....whats THAT worth?

these are just things I think about, . . . The dollar going twiggy, civil unrest, food shortages, is not "doom"...that's "hard times".

BIG difference the way I see it....am I wrong?

Some more great thoughts coming from you Neil. If I had to bottom line it people will pay whatever they have to, to survive. I wouldn't give you an ASE for the lamb, yet. Not while the beans, rice, legumes, wheat berries, barley, oats and the rest are still in my larder. I'd say it would depend on what stage of preparedness the individual or community is.

The Unprepared will give you what ever you ask. Completed Lifeboat strategy will give you individuals who would more likely trade your needs for theirs. Like farm work for leg-O-lamb or something like that.

Moving up the scale would be something like Earth Steward. Some one who has the homestead up and running in a self-sufficient/reliant manner. More likely the Earth Steward is reaching out beyond the "self-survival" mode and has contacts in the community who have strengths where the Steward does not. Possibly lives in a community put together with this in mind. This being a self-sufficient/reliant community with many individuals with many skills necessary for the community.

If things don't collapse in the near future and we continue our slow decline we will see communities reaching out to other ones in an attempt to organize on a regional level. It would take a region to go "green tech" where all food, water, energy, housing, clothing, etc. is sustainable for all the human beings in the organized communities.

Something like on a Cuba level. In 2007, The World Wildlife Fund's Living Planet Report claims Cuba the only true sustainable country in the world.

So I guess what I'm tryingto say Neil is at the Steward level or higher, there is likely a community that would be more than happy to have you join them since you got your "stuff" together. And to me, that would be worth more than an ASE for 5 lbs.

and an equally great response John...more food for thought. You're speaking of 'communitas'.....and voluntary communitas. (I prefer that word over "community")

btw, lets say we knew each other, I wouldn't "charge" you 2 toz .999 silver for 5 lbs of dressed lamb....especially if I knew you had some kids and a Mrs....nooo, maybe somewhere between a 40% to 90% Half, (.15 toz to .36 toz....."$100" silver?...that's 15 to 36 for 5 lb of DRESSED meat....that's $3 to $7 a pound for meat....NOW, if somebody from town, the county seat, came out, wanting to buy, and I don't KNOW them?....yeh, that's different.

But when you get into THAT kind of scenario, you're talking about a Daily Market, or "Swap" Meet...set in a public place WITH security, both self and hired by all vendors....that's what I read happened down in Argentina....fella named "FerFAL", writes a neat blog...he fled to Ireland.

I thank you for conferring "Steward" title on me...don't know if I deserve it....but up here, I am hooked into a "crew"....nothing insidious, but when you can gather 10 guys on the same page, you like each other, and work cooperatively, that's not bad. I was the one, that got the whole sheep biz meme planted, and then a fella dies, wife's gotta dump the herd.....voila, 60 head@ $20 a head.....round bales?....got 'em....gravity box full of last year's corn that Jay was too drunk to take to elevator?...got it.........now we got wool. but we don't have the skill set to process wool, but we do have Amish, and there's where you begin the genesis of another relationship...i'll fetch them, they bring the shearing implements....and we're not necessarily talking about frn's changing hands...they got preserved fruits and veggies, fresh veggies, and they got both board lumber AND SLAB wood, which makes great back up firewood, which are BTU's.

its all "currency"...but one of the most important , intangible forms of currency are RELATIONSHIPS, you cant put a "price" on those....in my Belief system. one of the most important books for any "prepper", or "resilient community" adherent to read, is a slim tome entitled "Life Together", by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Instead of me describing both the book and author, allow me to wiki them for you, or anybody else that reads this...I cannot emphasize how important this book is.....ALL the physical stuff one does to prepare for hard times, if you don't cover it with the LOve of Christ.....you teeter on a harrowing ledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Together

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer