Realcent.org

(Doc Rodee and a few other are calling for sub $18 prices, they might be right. This is one of the scariest zerohedge articles I read....its coming, stock market crash, bubbles a bursting.....and correct me if i'm wrong, lets say we have a REAL economic nightmare scenario...last time silver went to $9 on the board, right?.....read this article, and lets say it gets REAL stormy outside.....do PM's collapse?......does the board divorce from physical MORE than it has now?....here's the article:

18 Signs That Massive Economic Problems Are Erupting Everywhere

This is no time to be complacent. Massive economic problems are erupting all over the globe, but most people seem to believe that everything is going to be just fine. In fact, a whole bunch of recent polls and surveys show that the American people are starting to feel much better about how the U.S. economy is performing. Unfortunately, the false prosperity that we are currently enjoying is not going to last much longer. Just look at what is happening in Europe. The eurozone is now in the midst of the longest recession that it has ever experienced. Just look at what is happening over in Asia. Economic growth in India is the lowest that it has been in a decade and the Japanese financial system is beginning to spin wildly out of control.

One of the only places on the entire planet where serious economic problems have not already erupted is in the United States, and that is only because we have "kicked the can down the road" by recklessly printing money and by borrowing money at an unprecedented rate. Unfortunately, the "sugar high" produced by those foolish measures is starting to wear off. We are going to experience a massive amount of economic pain along with the rest of the world - it is just a matter of time.

But for the moment, there are a lot of skeptics out there.

For the moment, there are a lot of people that are declaring that the problems of the past have been fixed and that we are heading for incredibly bright economic times ahead.

Unfortunately, those people appear to be purposely ignoring the economic horror that is breaking out all over the globe.

The following are 18 signs that massive economic problems are erupting all over the planet...

#1 The eurozone is now in the midst of its longest recession ever. Economic activity in the eurozone has declined for six quarters in a row.

#2 Italy's economy has now been contracting for seven quarters in a row.

#3 Industrial production in Italy has fallen for 15 months in a row. It has now fallen to its lowest level in about 25 years.

#4 The number of people that are considered to be "seriously deprived" in Italy has doubled over the past two years.

#5 Consumer confidence in France has just hit a new all-time low.

#6 The number of unemployed workers seeking a job in France has hit a brand new all-time record high. Many unemployed workers in France are utterly frustrated at this point...


"I've sent CVs everywhere, I come to the unemployment agency every day, for 3 or 4 hours to look for work as a truck driver and there's never anything," said 42-year old Djamel Sami, who has been unemployed for a year, leaving a job agency in Paris.

#7 Unemployment in the eurozone as a whole has just hit a brand new all-time record high of 12.2 percent.

#8 Youth unemployment continues to soar to unprecedented heights in Europe. The following is from an article that was recently posted on the website of the Guardian that detailed how bad things are getting in some of the worst countries...


In Greece, 62.5% of young people are out of work, in Spain it's 56.4%, then Portugal with 42.5%, and then Italy with 40.5%.

#9 Youth unemployment is being partially blamed for the worst rioting that Sweden has seen in many years. The following is how the Daily Mail described the riots...


Sweden is reeling after a third night of rioting in largely run-down immigrant areas of the capital Stockholm.

In the last 48 hours violence has spread to at least ten suburbs with mobs of youths torching hundreds of cars and clashing with police.

It is Sweden's worst disorder in years and has shocked the country and provoked a debate on how Sweden is coping with youth unemployment and an influx of immigrants.

rest of article
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-0 ... everywhere

hey ps...I don't know about you guys, but I get disaster overload, and just want to hide either in the Bible...or watch a film...walk thru my woods....I just KEEP reading doom and gloom EVERYDAY....does anybody else the same...or am I just a wimp?....you see, I BUGGED OUT....got rural, got lt food supplies, got friends, live in a beautiful sparsely populated area....BUT when I keep reading about the coming storm, it grinds me down, coz everyone I love is still in the cities....so does anyone else get disaster overload?

neil, I here ya buddy. I get doom-and-gloomed out too. Have to take a break from it for a couple of weeks. Count your blessings though. Some of us are trying to get our 'houses in order' in the meantime. I am doing what I can, have my debts paid except for the mortgage. Am 6 years away from that, throwing every zinc penny I have at it, working 3 jobs to do it (no jobs, shoot I got 3 of them...). Here's my dilemma. We all have ideas in our heads about something thats going to happen soon. Whether it's a full blown economic collapse, a currency crisis or WWIII. Or maybe just a grinding, year on year recession. I don't know but I feel it's going to be bigger than the chronic problems we are seeing mainly because our financial and currency systems just can't support the current path.

That said, as a Christian (please don't stop reading, this is not a preaching thing), I have recently been turned onto Jewish prophecy by other fellow Christian friends. To make a long story short, there are some 'Messianic Jews' (Jewish folk who acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior) who are saying Elu 2015 is the season when TSHTF. It's the end of a 7 year cycle of plenty leading into a 7 year cycle of hardship. I think Elu is September, so September 2015 is when some of these folks (very compelling stuff) believe we will enter the season. In other words It's not a hard date but more likely a beginning of tough times (tougher times?).

Now, I need 6 more years of things as is to get everything done that I need to get done Therein is my dilemma should these guys be right. Well, I have rambled enough. We do still have hope and we all need to keep plugging away. Oh yeah, and keep stacking.

Might only have a year.. Depends on the weather .. and humanity in general. Part of all this is that the economic system is just kind of rigged in it's own happy way, and yes, we are totally fooling ourselves. Be glad you can live outside the city, air and water are usually allot cleaner.

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/we-are ... sts-say--2

silverflake wrote:neil, I here ya buddy. I get doom-and-gloomed out too. Have to take a break from it for a couple of weeks. Count your blessings though. Some of us are trying to get our 'houses in order' in the meantime. I am doing what I can, have my debts paid except for the mortgage. Am 6 years away from that, throwing every zinc penny I have at it, working 3 jobs to do it (no jobs, shoot I got 3 of them...). Here's my dilemma. We all have ideas in our heads about something thats going to happen soon. Whether it's a full blown economic collapse, a currency crisis or WWIII. Or maybe just a grinding, year on year recession. I don't know but I feel it's going to be bigger than the chronic problems we are seeing mainly because our financial and currency systems just can't support the current path.

That said, as a Christian (please don't stop reading, this is not a preaching thing), I have recently been turned onto Jewish prophecy by other fellow Christian friends. To make a long story short, there are some 'Messianic Jews' (Jewish folk who acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior) who are saying Elu 2015 is the season when TSHTF. It's the end of a 7 year cycle of plenty leading into a 7 year cycle of hardship. I think Elu is September, so September 2015 is when some of these folks (very compelling stuff) believe we will enter the season. In other words It's not a hard date but more likely a beginning of tough times (tougher times?).

Now, I need 6 more years of things as is to get everything done that I need to get done Therein is my dilemma should these guys be right. Well, I have rambled enough. We do still have hope and we all need to keep plugging away. Oh yeah, and keep stacking.

I'm not a big fan of prophesies, especially ones that are that specific. They seem to border on divination. Besides, isn't it a stretch to label 2008 - 2015, "years of plenty?" Honestly I think the crisis will happen at a time and in a manner that catches most of us by surprise. However, I'm fairly convinced that the first domino (bank closure, sovereign default) will fall over a weekend, probably one with a holiday. This will give TPTB more time to implement their solution.

I like ZH but I take a lot of their stuff with a grain of salt. Although their article on Europe sounds bad, but I don't see that area collapsing. It will just continue on its inexorable decline toward irrelevance as most of the population is resigned to their fate. Actually I think the place to watch is Asia. China's bubble is supposedly about to burst, but who can really trust the numbers their government puts out. And then there's Japan who is embarking on a monetary policy that makes Bernenke look like a Von Mises disciple. Europe, by comparison, is a noisy distraction.

+1

If you see and understand a prophesy unfolding, then it's not unfolding.

If you think things are going well, think again, that's when they fall apart.

You won't recognize the antichrist. You won't recognize the seven seals, signs or the mark of the beast.

You will never accurately be able to say "look it's about to happen". This is because we cannot avoid it.

The end may be in early stages starting with 1914 like JW's believe and it might end 10,000 years from now.

You will recognize the second coming, that I guarantee. By then it will be too late or just in time, depending on your situation.


Europe is Europe.
They have sucked for a long time.
Massive wars and misery have historically originated in Europe, yet we still strive to be more like Europe. I don't get it.

Neil, if you believe as I do in the Word then there is nothing to fear. This too shall pass. You can't force anybody to be rational or pull their head out of the sand. All you can do is speak and hope they hear, and it's up to them what they do with it. It's their life to live, but we can be in a position to help them by staying vigilant.

When I feel like I'm getting disaster overload sometimes it's worth just unplugging for a bit. The world is still turning. The birds are still chirping.

You guys make good points about prophecy. I understand. Still interesting stuff. I have to continue living my life the best I can and take all 'future dates' under consideration but we all do need to be prepared in one form or another for what seem to be inevitable changes in the financial fabric of the U.S. if not the world. What we consider 'prepared' seems to be a matter of opinion. But still, get prepared all the same.

Always appreciate the input of the realcent crowd.


By the way, the mention of the current 7 years being a time of plenty is more a reflection on what the next 7 years (or the next season) will bring and it ain't good in comparison. Use it or just ruminate on it. I have heard that we don't need to know the DATE, we just need to know the SEASON.

Keep stacking.

Stock market players hold a small amount of paper gold and silver. In the event of a market crash, they usually sell their paper gold and silver positions to keep their producing assets.

I think there is a fallacy in the physical community that somehow a paper gold and silver player would sell paper and buy physical. Just my opinion, but that is unlikely for any larger investor. Its like what most people use it as - that being "a rainy day fund" so you don't have to sell the ketchup factory. Ketchup being about $4 per litre where I am (about quadruple the price of gasoline)

BTW: China does use paper copper contracts as collateral rainy day funds, but almost noone in the world uses paper nickel. Its something to keep in mind.

silverflake wrote:neil, I here ya buddy. I get doom-and-gloomed out too. Have to take a break from it for a couple of weeks. Count your blessings though. Some of us are trying to get our 'houses in order' in the meantime. I am doing what I can, have my debts paid except for the mortgage. Am 6 years away from that, throwing every zinc penny I have at it, working 3 jobs to do it (no jobs, shoot I got 3 of them...). Here's my dilemma. We all have ideas in our heads about something thats going to happen soon. Whether it's a full blown economic collapse, a currency crisis or WWIII. Or maybe just a grinding, year on year recession. I don't know but I feel it's going to be bigger than the chronic problems we are seeing mainly because our financial and currency systems just can't support the current path.

That said, as a Christian (please don't stop reading, this is not a preaching thing), I have recently been turned onto Jewish prophecy by other fellow Christian friends. To make a long story short, there are some 'Messianic Jews' (Jewish folk who acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior) who are saying Elu 2015 is the season when TSHTF. It's the end of a 7 year cycle of plenty leading into a 7 year cycle of hardship. I think Elu is September, so September 2015 is when some of these folks (very compelling stuff) believe we will enter the season. In other words It's not a hard date but more likely a beginning of tough times (tougher times?).

Now, I need 6 more years of things as is to get everything done that I need to get done Therein is my dilemma should these guys be right. Well, I have rambled enough. We do still have hope and we all need to keep plugging away. Oh yeah, and keep stacking.

Flake, my brother, i'm a Jew who follows Jesus....not only follows but loves Jesus ardently!....AND, just now in the Leading of the Holy Spirit, I found myself praying in my heart, that God answers ALL your prayers, protects you and your family, blessing you richly in all provision, both physical, and heart. ....sorry to whine in the previous post of mine, coz I read what you wrote, about 3 jobs.....as I implore Messiah Jesus, may He enrich you and yours greatly! amen........2015, huh?.......okay, no arguments from me....yikes!!...lol.......I cant buy anymore silver for a spell here, but we're good, and I hope you consider me brother, neil

ps....you don't ramble......I might ramble, you don't.

theo wrote:

silverflake wrote:neil, I here ya buddy. I get doom-and-gloomed out too. Have to take a break from it for a couple of weeks. Count your blessings though. Some of us are trying to get our 'houses in order' in the meantime. I am doing what I can, have my debts paid except for the mortgage. Am 6 years away from that, throwing every zinc penny I have at it, working 3 jobs to do it (no jobs, shoot I got 3 of them...). Here's my dilemma. We all have ideas in our heads about something thats going to happen soon. Whether it's a full blown economic collapse, a currency crisis or WWIII. Or maybe just a grinding, year on year recession. I don't know but I feel it's going to be bigger than the chronic problems we are seeing mainly because our financial and currency systems just can't support the current path.

That said, as a Christian (please don't stop reading, this is not a preaching thing), I have recently been turned onto Jewish prophecy by other fellow Christian friends. To make a long story short, there are some 'Messianic Jews' (Jewish folk who acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior) who are saying Elu 2015 is the season when TSHTF. It's the end of a 7 year cycle of plenty leading into a 7 year cycle of hardship. I think Elu is September, so September 2015 is when some of these folks (very compelling stuff) believe we will enter the season. In other words It's not a hard date but more likely a beginning of tough times (tougher times?).

Now, I need 6 more years of things as is to get everything done that I need to get done Therein is my dilemma should these guys be right. Well, I have rambled enough. We do still have hope and we all need to keep plugging away. Oh yeah, and keep stacking.

I'm not a big fan of prophesies, especially ones that are that specific. They seem to border on divination. Besides, isn't it a stretch to label 2008 - 2015, "years of plenty?" Honestly I think the crisis will happen at a time and in a manner that catches most of us by surprise. However, I'm fairly convinced that the first domino (bank closure, sovereign default) will fall over a weekend, probably one with a holiday. This will give TPTB more time to implement their solution.

I like ZH but I take a lot of their stuff with a grain of salt. Although their article on Europe sounds bad, but I don't see that area collapsing. It will just continue on its inexorable decline toward irrelevance as most of the population is resigned to their fate. Actually I think the place to watch is Asia. China's bubble is supposedly about to burst, but who can really trust the numbers their government puts out. And then there's Japan who is embarking on a monetary policy that makes Bernenke look like a Von Mises disciple. Europe, by comparison, is a noisy distraction.

theo, those are ALL excellent points too.....you're right. ZH?...great site, aint gospel though......salt is good, so is being calm and collected....we just live in "interesting" times, huh?

out of all the countries you mentioned?......i'm more bearish on Japan, than the lot of them....I STILL don't think they've got "real" about Fukushima yet.......I read dire whispers about high rad counts, and talk about evac'ing Tokyo.....+10 on the your reply sir.

Thogey wrote:+1

If you see and understand a prophesy unfolding, then it's not unfolding.

If you think things are going well, think again, that's when they fall apart.

You won't recognize the antichrist. You won't recognize the seven seals, signs or the mark of the beast.

You will never accurately be able to say "look it's about to happen". This is because we cannot avoid it.

The end may be in early stages starting with 1914 like JW's believe and it might end 10,000 years from now.

You will recognize the second coming, that I guarantee. By then it will be too late or just in time, depending on your situation.


Europe is Europe.
They have sucked for a long time.
Massive wars and misery have historically originated in Europe, yet we still strive to be more like Europe. I don't get it.

+1000...amen.

InfleXion wrote:Neil, if you believe as I do in the Word then there is nothing to fear. This too shall pass. You can't force anybody to be rational or pull their head out of the sand. All you can do is speak and hope they hear, and it's up to them what they do with it. It's their life to live, but we can be in a position to help them by staying vigilant.

When I feel like I'm getting disaster overload sometimes it's worth just unplugging for a bit. The world is still turning. The birds are still chirping.

FleX, when I see a line like this........"Neil, if you believe as I do in the Word then there is nothing to fear."....my heart leaps, coz I feel, "Thank God...another brother.....Thank You LORD!".....that's how I feel.....and yes, they are chirping outside. sweetly, neil

ZenOps wrote:Stock market players hold a small amount of paper gold and silver. In the event of a market crash, they usually sell their paper gold and silver positions to keep their producing assets.

I think there is a fallacy in the physical community that somehow a paper gold and silver player would sell paper and buy physical. Just my opinion, but that is unlikely for any larger investor. Its like what most people use it as - that being "a rainy day fund" so you don't have to sell the ketchup factory. Ketchup being about $4 per litre where I am (about quadruple the price of gasoline)

BTW: China does use paper copper contracts as collateral rainy day funds, but almost noone in the world uses paper nickel. Its something to keep in mind.

know what?....just watching silver trade?......it SEEMS to be bottoming...maybe i'm wrong, but...,..........SEEMS to be bottoming. we out.

neilgin1 wrote:know what?....just watching silver trade?......it SEEMS to be bottoming...maybe i'm wrong, but...,..........SEEMS to be bottoming. we out.

Maybe, but it always made sense to me that you could have bought silver in the 1940's for cents, but you could also have bought a ketchup factory for a half a million dollars that today would be closer to half a billion AND you still get the revenues from all the ketchup sold over the years. An asset that produces is better than an asset that does not. Housing is arguably a liability if overbuilt, but everyone needs to eat.

ZenOps wrote:Maybe, but it always made sense to me that you could have bought silver in the 1940's for cents, but you could also have bought a ketchup factory for a half a million dollars that today would be closer to half a billion AND you still get the revenues from all the ketchup sold over the years. An asset that produces is better than an asset that does not. Housing is arguably a liability if overbuilt, but everyone needs to eat.

It depends on your goals and also on circumstances. I guess that's why people always preach diversification. It would be nice to have income generating assets like rentals or factories, but there is a lot of red tape involved. Metals have no tape. What looks good now may not look so good when circumstances inevitably change.

Again - PMs are not (or only rarely are) an investment. They are, by definition, money (in the historical sense) - hard money. A ketchup factory is an investment. A wise and well-managed investment, in a time of stability, will obviously out-perform hard money, which (averaged over time) does not appreciate significantly. On the other hand, hard money is used to preserve wealth in a period of instability - to get from one side of an unstable period to the other side so that it can then (ideally) be reinvested in a capital investment.

PMs are only investments when you invest in the means of producing them, or when there is some weirdness (as right now) that causes them to have been undervalued (perhaps by manipulation in the face of a competing money - which has been the oil-based USD) for a time. If you believe (as many of us do) that the competing money is going to fail, and PMs will rise relative to the alternatives, then you might be successful at investing in PMs in that period of time. At that point you are betting on an unusual circumstance and timing of that unusual event more so than in PMs as a true investment. Some PMs (silver, platinum, etc - but at this point not gold) also have industrial usage, and may become more valuable as a result of passing peak supply during a period of increased demand - that's another form of PM investment, but again, an unusual one compared to history.

The Ketchup factory is a money factory.

Whatever you pay people with, cotton, copper, nickel, silver or gold - at the end of the day they are part of a system that requires them to turn it in for a bottle of ketchup, and a pound of beef, and some bread - of course with the goal of making the all-american hamburger. So I can see where a bitcoin would be superior, if you have to spend it anyhow - might as well make it as efficient as possible.

Metals are really only for excess storage of wealth, and is not really circulated anymore. It is hoarded (like Khadafi and his 144 tons of gold) meaning that many metals, even copper and nickel now - are not circulated, and if it is not circulated it is no longer money. Yes, even copper and nickel are on the verge of no longer being money, soon to join silver and gold. Since many in the US are on EBT electronic foodstamps and do not have any excess wealth to speak of, in many ways - coinage is doubly obsolete as it is not circulated, it is not used for storage of wealth either.

As long as the US adheres to a consumption based economy (it has been like that all my life) then the ketchup, the hamburger, the apple pie will always be the goal and not so much the gold.

ZenOps wrote:The Ketchup factory is a money factory.

Whatever you pay people with, cotton, copper, nickel, silver or gold - at the end of the day they are part of a system that requires them to turn it in for a bottle of ketchup, and a pound of beef, and some bread - of course with the goal of making the all-american hamburger. So I can see where a bitcoin would be superior, if you have to spend it anyhow - might as well make it as efficient as possible.

Metals are really only for excess storage of wealth, and is not really circulated anymore. It is hoarded (like Khadafi and his 144 tons of gold) meaning that many metals, even copper and nickel now - are not circulated, and if it is not circulated it is no longer money. Yes, even copper and nickel are on the verge of no longer being money, soon to join silver and gold. Since many in the US are on EBT electronic foodstamps and do not have any excess wealth to speak of, in many ways - coinage is doubly obsolete as it is not circulated, it is not used for storage of wealth either.

As long as the US adheres to a consumption based economy (it has been like that all my life) then the ketchup, the hamburger, the apple pie will always be the goal and not so much the gold.

That's pretty good.

How can you argue with that?

Hmmmmmppppfff
Please send all your obsolete coinage to me. PM me for address.

Z00 wrote:Hmmmmmppppfff
Please send all your obsolete coinage to me. PM me for address.

Ditto... happy to take the obsolete coinage off of anyone's hands. it satisfies the full definition of money. ketchup? it doesn't store so well, not as universally accepted, etc.

68Camaro wrote:

Z00 wrote:Hmmmmmppppfff
Please send all your obsolete coinage to me. PM me for address.

Ditto... happy to take the obsolete coinage off of anyone's hands. it satisfies the full definition of money. ketchup? it doesn't store so well, not as universally accepted, etc.

Well, it is more liquid.

ZenOps wrote:The Ketchup factory is a money factory.

Whatever you pay people with, cotton, copper, nickel, silver or gold - at the end of the day they are part of a system that requires them to turn it in for a bottle of ketchup, and a pound of beef, and some bread - of course with the goal of making the all-american hamburger. So I can see where a bitcoin would be superior, if you have to spend it anyhow - might as well make it as efficient as possible.

Metals are really only for excess storage of wealth, and is not really circulated anymore. It is hoarded (like Khadafi and his 144 tons of gold) meaning that many metals, even copper and nickel now - are not circulated, and if it is not circulated it is no longer money. Yes, even copper and nickel are on the verge of no longer being money, soon to join silver and gold. Since many in the US are on EBT electronic foodstamps and do not have any excess wealth to speak of, in many ways - coinage is doubly obsolete as it is not circulated, it is not used for storage of wealth either.

As long as the US adheres to a consumption based economy (it has been like that all my life) then the ketchup, the hamburger, the apple pie will always be the goal and not so much the gold.

What you are missing here is that metals, whether gold, silver, copper, nickel, etc. are money regardless of whether they are circulating as currency. They fulfill the rules of a unit of account and a store of wealth, are divisible, durable, fungible, and portable. No other type of money/currency suffices every aspect of these rules. They will always be money because that's what their intrinsic properties make them the most ideal thing to be. Their value is timeless, cannot be destroyed, and cannot be created out of thin air all because they are elements, not monopoly money or pork bellies that we can breed or corn that we can grow. They may not be as profitable as these other things or a ketchup factory, but they will always perform their role regardless of their designation. That's why I like metals. Sure I hope they will be profitable, but I didn't build my core position with the intent to make money. I did it to have real money, to have money that can't be inflated away, to have a medium of exchange that can't be hijacked or stolen by bankers that does not require any seal of approval for its value or any particular power structure to support it.

scyther wrote:

68Camaro wrote:

Z00 wrote:Hmmmmmppppfff
Please send all your obsolete coinage to me. PM me for address.

Ditto... happy to take the obsolete coinage off of anyone's hands. it satisfies the full definition of money. ketchup? it doesn't store so well, not as universally accepted, etc.

Well, it is more liquid.

I'm disappointed in myself that I didn't include that key feature, but ... well done!

InfleXion wrote:...metals, whether gold, silver, copper, nickel, etc. are money regardless of whether they are circulating as currency. They fulfill the rules of a unit of account and a store of wealth, are divisible, durable, fungible, and portable. No other type of money/currency suffices every aspect of these rules. They will always be money because that's what their intrinsic properties make them the most ideal thing to be. Their value is timeless, cannot be destroyed, and cannot be created out of thin air all because they are elements, not monopoly money or pork bellies that we can breed or corn that we can grow. They may not be as profitable as these other things or a ketchup factory, but they will always perform their role regardless of their designation. That's why I like metals. Sure I hope they will be profitable, but I didn't build my core position with the intent to make money. I did it to have real money, to have money that can't be inflated away, to have a medium of exchange that can't be hijacked or stolen by bankers that does not require any seal of approval for its value or any particular power structure to support it.

Roger that!