Realcent.org

...it looks like the wheels are coming off the whole thing right now.

God help us, if we close down 300 points or more in the Dow on Thursday, with an even BIGGER stomping on a FRIDAY...say down 300 to 800 points lower....that in itself could be the opening for the long awaited "SHTF".

oh, this is not good.

Perhaps, for a few days... cash is king

beauanderos wrote:Perhaps, for a few days... cash is king

I would say it reminds me of 1987....BUT, we have a lot less energy, that's priced way more expensive...and we have a Fed, that's out of control...and. and. and. and....

oh man! I was joking around earlier this trading day.....now I got this sinking bad feeling in my stomach...the only thing i'm holding onto, or hoping, is the knowledge, that crashes/collapses, usually happen in the fall, but that's a slim reed.

The DJIA started the year at 13400. It's near 15,000 right now. What's the problem?

SoFa wrote:The DJIA started the year at 13400. It's near 15,000 right now. What's the problem?

true....good point....it just seems that with all the dreadful off market stuff going on, it lends itself to a non-specific feeling of unease....at least in my read of everything....but that is a good point.

It's possible. Maybe the bubble is about to collapse.
What are we to do if the government can't continue propping everything up?

If it is a market collapse, then the market has a lot further to fall. Another vote for cash being king (for a while anyhow)

All commodities taking a beating. I can imagine that silver will fall harder than gold.

SoFa wrote:The DJIA started the year at 13400. It's near 15,000 right now. What's the problem?

Silver started the year at $30.87

Dow 8000 sometime before 2016. Just my .02.

Keep stacking hard items needed to survive.

Don't get so neurotic. No need to fantasize about complete market collapse etc, even though some here have seemed hopeful for this and made similar posts over the last few years. Make prudent decisions with a level head. Follow a strategy with discipline. The market will take care of itself. DYOD and take care of yourself, wisely.
Cheers!

Jonflyfish wrote:Don't get so neurotic. No need to fantasize about complete market collapse etc, even though some here have seemed hopeful for this and made similar posts over the last few years. Make prudent decisions with a level head. Follow a strategy with discipline. The market will take care of itself. DYOD and take care of yourself, wisely.
Cheers!

It's strange how you people always accuse bullion stackers of "fantasizing" about a collapse. Some of them do, but seems to me that most of them realize that wouldn't be a good thing, and hope that it won't happen.

I believe we've hit the Dow peak, but the tenacity of the market and the those attempting to manage it is greater than a single bad day. I think this is going to be a slow nail dragging decline for some weeks or months until some specific other events create a free fall. Could be this year, or several years, but it'll happen. And there is no joy in saying that.

68Camaro wrote:I believe we've hit the Dow peak, but the tenacity of the market and the those attempting to manage it is greater than a single bad day. I think this is going to be a slow nail dragging decline for some weeks or months until some specific other events create a free fall. Could be this year, or several years, but it'll happen. And there is no joy in saying that.

In a normal world, I would agree with you. But the plunge protection team has unlimited means at its behest to prop the markets, just as it does to destroy any confidence in PM's. I imagine it will just be business as usual... and I would be surprised if the two trends DO reverse.

Not exactly sure what you're suggesting.

BTW - I'm not falling on my sword on the above prediction of Dow high, because yes they could prop it to16 or 17k etc. if nothing else crashes first.

However, lets give some thought to what "unlimited" really means. While I've been guilty of hyperbole in use of that word myself, I don't literally mean it, and they do have limits. There powers are incredibly larger than that of an individual or even a single corporation, but far from unlimited. They can try to stop a run and/or influence direction, and manipulate perception, but if they miscalculated or a larger event out of their control shows up (a world war, for example) theydo not have enough resources to recorrect. Even if they could print enough money to seem to deal with that immediate issue their very act of doing that would create a different major issue.

68Camaro wrote:Not exactly sure what you're suggesting.

BTW - I'm not falling on my sword on the above prediction of Dow high, because yes they could prop it to16 or 17k etc. if nothing else crashes first.

However, lets give some thought to what "unlimited" really means. While I've been guilty of hyperbole in use of that word myself, I don't literally mean it, and they do have limits. There powers are incredibly larger than that of an individual or even a single corporation, but far from unlimited. They can try to stop a run and/or influence direction, and manipulate perception, but if they miscalculated or a larger event out of their control shows up (a world war, for example) theydo not have enough resources to recorrect. Even if they could print enough money to seem to deal with that immediate issue their very act of doing that would create a different major issue.

I'm suggesting that the money creation "behind the curtains" is FAR huger than what they openly admit to, it's only a few years later that they confess that "oh yeah, it was more like 16 trillion... rather than 700 million" that they activated computer keys to blink even more fiat into existence. And what or who is to stop them? Some of the biggest member banks with ownership of the Fed are the culprits in precious metals manipulations. They want the perception to continue that a wealth effect exists by playing equities and shunning silver or gold. They've proven time and again (though I'd LOVE to see them fail) that they have the power to move markets at their whim. If/when they choose to stop doing so, it will only be because they find it advantageous to do so. I continue in my assertion that their long term game plan is to crush metals, and then Cyprussify private holdings so that only they can benefit from the lowered prices. Once they (or the East) have scooped up at bargain prices all the metal that is flushed out from such a scheme, then and only then will you see what we have long awaited, that moon shot the we used to like to dream about.

SoFa wrote:The DJIA started the year at 13400. It's near 15,000 right now. What's the problem?

The problem is that the rise in the DOW was completely and directly correlated with QE3 and QE4, and now the drop is directly correlated with the prospect of stopping QE.

These are not real markets. They are not safe, and we have maniacs behind the wheel.

68Camaro wrote:Not exactly sure what you're suggesting.

BTW - I'm not falling on my sword on the above prediction of Dow high, because yes they could prop it to16 or 17k etc. if nothing else crashes first.

However, lets give some thought to what "unlimited" really means. While I've been guilty of hyperbole in use of that word myself, I don't literally mean it, and they do have limits. There powers are incredibly larger than that of an individual or even a single corporation, but far from unlimited. They can try to stop a run and/or influence direction, and manipulate perception, but if they miscalculated or a larger event out of their control shows up (a world war, for example) theydo not have enough resources to recorrect. Even if they could print enough money to seem to deal with that immediate issue their very act of doing that would create a different major issue.

To me, what unlimited truly means is:
- As long as the citizenry is willing to choose debt based money over sound money
- As long as the physical market is not squeezed sufficiently to either default the exchanges or else necessitate high enough prices in metals to end dollar dominance.
- As long as China is willing to own our Treasury bonds
- As long as China is willing to allow us to retain world reserve currency status and not undermine us with their already existant bilateral agreements
- As long as China is not seeking a gold based currency
- As long as the debt saturation level of the Fed's money printing does not go beyond the event horizon (this may have already happened being on a time delay)

beauanderos wrote:
I'm suggesting that the money creation "behind the curtains" is FAR huger than what they openly admit to, it's only a few years later that they confess that "oh yeah, it was more like 16 trillion... rather than 700 million" that they activated computer keys to blink even more fiat into existence. And what or who is to stop them? Some of the biggest member banks with ownership of the Fed are the culprits in precious metals manipulations. They want the perception to continue that a wealth effect exists by playing equities and shunning silver or gold. They've proven time and again (though I'd LOVE to see them fail) that they have the power to move markets at their whim. If/when they choose to stop doing so, it will only be because they find it advantageous to do so. I continue in my assertion that their long term game plan is to crush metals, and then Cyprussify private holdings so that only they can benefit from the lowered prices. Once they (or the East) have scooped up at bargain prices all the metal that is flushed out from such a scheme, then and only then will you see what we have long awaited, that moon shot the we used to like to dream about.

Got it. The above may be currently in play, but it may or may not be how the end game gets played out. I think there are at least two (or more) other possible overall scenarios (unfortunately none pleasant.)

A second is that they lose control of the market (by one of several different subpaths) - it runs out of control, crashes, they can't do a 2008 recovery, and the resulting unrest creates either massive civil unrest or a major war (or both). Perhaps martial law results, perhaps a dictatorship results in the guise of "protecting" us.

A third is that a black swan - perhaps WW3 - adds to the current market instability with such a disruption that the already unstable market crashes. Civil unrest ensures, etc.

InfleXion wrote:

68Camaro wrote:Not exactly sure what you're suggesting.

BTW - I'm not falling on my sword on the above prediction of Dow high, because yes they could prop it to16 or 17k etc. if nothing else crashes first.

However, lets give some thought to what "unlimited" really means. While I've been guilty of hyperbole in use of that word myself, I don't literally mean it, and they do have limits. There powers are incredibly larger than that of an individual or even a single corporation, but far from unlimited. They can try to stop a run and/or influence direction, and manipulate perception, but if they miscalculated or a larger event out of their control shows up (a world war, for example) theydo not have enough resources to recorrect. Even if they could print enough money to seem to deal with that immediate issue their very act of doing that would create a different major issue.

To me, what unlimited truly means is:
- As long as the citizenry is willing to choose debt based money over sound money
- As long as the physical market is not squeezed sufficiently to either default the exchanges or else necessitate high enough prices in metals to end dollar dominance.
- As long as China is willing to own our Treasury bonds
- As long as China is willing to allow us to retain world reserve currency status and not undermine us with their already existant bilateral agreements
- As long as China is not seeking a gold based currency
- As long as the debt saturation level of the Fed's money printing does not go beyond the event horizon (this may have already happened being on a time delay)

These (and possible others) could be summed up by "as long as their currently unstable position doesn't go critical". They can and have obviously worked to manipulate (aka, stabilize) the markets for decades, but it appears they've had to use increasingly large and invasive methods to keep the market from going critical. I think there is a limit to how much control authority they have in this system - their levers are limited in number and can only get pulled so far so fast - I believe there are effects that they can't handle, they just haven't run into one yet, but they will eventually encounter one.