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Dow Futures down 400, oil under $30... silver and gold holding up (heading up) well in light of this

beauanderos wrote:Dow Futures down 400, oil under $30... silver and gold holding up (heading up) well in light of this

OB.....no thumbs up.(due respect)

this is JUST the beginning, wait until the average American's belly gets emptied.

then........

Communism looks so much better to the middle class when their broke and hungry.

Global recession on the horizon? Oil seems to be saying so. Walmart announced today their closing 200+ of their smallest stores--just a coincidence? Could be early signs of corporate streamlining all over again.

neilgin1 wrote:

beauanderos wrote:Dow Futures down 400, oil under $30... silver and gold holding up (heading up) well in light of this

OB.....no thumbs up.(due respect)

this is JUST the beginning, wait until the average American's belly gets emptied.

then........

My thumbs up were for silver and gold outperforming while everything else is crumbling. But we both know they'll get knocked down soon enough.

Is reality finally setting in?

If SPX breaks the August low, we should see a BIG breakdown. It will be hard and fast.

Don't worry though, the Fed will throw everything they can at it. I seriously doubt they'll let the market fall below -20%. QE4 on the way soon. They'll ban shorting too.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Don't worry though, the Fed will throw everything they can at it. I seriously doubt they'll let the market fall below -20%. QE4 on the way soon. They'll ban shorting too.

Agree, at least that that's the administration's desire and they will work hard to that end. I think their line in the sand is roughly the 2007 high of 14000 and change for the Dow, and the equivalent for the other highly watched indices. Obama will insist that he go out with a market "higher/better" than the Bush peak (even if not adjusted for inflation). From 16000 that's only 2000 points (not far from the current point) so they only have 12.5% left to play with. If the rest of the world is collapsing and the US retail market is imploding I think it could be a challenge for them to keep it above 14000. But they will try, even if as you say they have to resort to a major additional stimulus (they won't call it QE4, they probably won't call it QE anything.

Hmmm, how could they do this? (Short of just bumping up their stock buying by 10x until they've essentially nationalized a large part of the market - which might well be what they do). They've already got interest rates at record lows and people still won't buy. They already have half the population on major hand-outs. A tax holiday might be an approach but unless businesses believe it is a long-term change they won't change their approaches and the consumer market will be far too slow to react to that.

I'm not sure I can think of anything they have left that could be effective at this point, short of just buying the market? If they do that, everyone's 401K will have essentially been transformed into US Treasuries. Which is sorta what they want anyway.

Any other thoughts on this?

68Camaro wrote:

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Don't worry though, the Fed will throw everything they can at it. I seriously doubt they'll let the market fall below -20%. QE4 on the way soon. They'll ban shorting too.

Agree, at least that that's the administration's desire and they will work hard to that end. I think their line in the sand is roughly the 2007 high of 14000 and change for the Dow, and the equivalent for the other highly watched indices. Obama will insist that he go out with a market "higher/better" than the Bush peak (even if not adjusted for inflation). From 16000 that's only 2000 points (not far from the current point) so they only have 12.5% left to play with. If the rest of the world is collapsing and the US retail market is imploding I think it could be a challenge for them to keep it above 14000. But they will try, even if as you say they have to resort to a major additional stimulus (they won't call it QE4, they probably won't call it QE anything.

Hmmm, how could they do this? (Short of just bumping up their stock buying by 10x until they've essentially nationalized a large part of the market - which might well be what they do). They've already got interest rates at record lows and people still won't buy. They already have half the population on major hand-outs. A tax holiday might be an approach but unless businesses believe it is a long-term change they won't change their approaches and the consumer market will be far too slow to react to that.

I'm not sure I can think of anything they have left that could be effective at this point, short of just buying the market? If they do that, everyone's 401K will have essentially been transformed into US Treasuries. Which is sorta what they want anyway.

Any other thoughts on this?

Maybe TPTB are green-lighting a crash in order to justify converting all 401k's to US Treasuries (?).

Just like they did in 2008/09, the Fed and US Government will create new schemes/scams undreamed of. TPTB will do anything and everything to put a floor underneath it. Even if TPTB prop the stock market, they cannot do much to save a crashing economy. Things are going to get much worse for people in the US, that's for sure. Majority of US sheeple are totally ignorant to what is happening and what is about to happen. When it goes down the elites will fly off to some remote location while the majority of us will be killing each other over a can of beans. Ammo will be worth more than silver and gold someday... I have no doubts about that.

My thoughts: We are at the headwind. If you own funds or stocks.....get out while you still can.

Disclaimer: I am not a financial advisor. Make up your own mind.

Agree with Rodebaugh. Get out or at least cut your losers and speculations. Raise some cash.

That raises another thought. On the other side of this nebulous "crash" of some type that we all seem to feel is coming (to what degree, I can't say - I think its gonna be big), life will go on. The paradigm may actually be changed but, there will be bargains on the other side (besides miners). Be ready. Maybe my last chance at 47 years old to buy some blue chips on the cheap.

Continue to stack though.

I heard negative interest rates are a possibility( at least a card they could play). This doesn't make sense to me in any way. You talk about people really panicking

silverflake wrote:Agree with Rodebaugh. Get out or at least cut your losers and speculations. Raise some cash.

That raises another thought. On the other side of this nebulous "crash" of some type that we all seem to feel is coming (to what degree, I can't say - I think its gonna be big), life will go on. The paradigm may actually be changed but, there will be bargains on the other side (besides miners). Be ready. Maybe my last chance at 47 years old to buy some blue chips on the cheap.

Continue to stack though.

I would say raising cash would be of paramount importance, far greater than even continuing to stack, unless you see a screaming deal. Most of us have enough in our stacks anyway, what
we may not have is a sufficient stack of outside-the-banking-system fiat. There will always be deals, but without the ready cash to deploy you will miss out on them. If you can't bid, why
go to the auction?

All I can say is the best time to have planted food trees or bushes (which are perennial and pretty low maintenance if you do the homework to pick things with low pest issues in your area) is several years ago. The second best time is NOW. I have no idea how long the game of musical chairs can go on, but not forever. If cost is an issue stone fruits like plums, peaches, nectarines and most nuts all do well from seed if you know the variety comes from your zone or a colder one.

beauanderos wrote:

silverflake wrote:Agree with Rodebaugh. Get out or at least cut your losers and speculations. Raise some cash.

That raises another thought. On the other side of this nebulous "crash" of some type that we all seem to feel is coming (to what degree, I can't say - I think its gonna be big), life will go on. The paradigm may actually be changed but, there will be bargains on the other side (besides miners). Be ready. Maybe my last chance at 47 years old to buy some blue chips on the cheap.

Continue to stack though.

I would say raising cash would be of paramount importance, far greater than even continuing to stack, unless you see a screaming deal. Most of us have enough in our stacks anyway, what
we may not have is a sufficient stack of outside-the-banking-system fiat. There will always be deals, but without the ready cash to deploy you will miss out on them. If you can't bid, why
go to the auction?

Regarding our stacks, the word "enough" is relative.

I totally agree about having cash. It will be very sought after when ATM's/banks are closed.

I keep my fiat in a fire proof safe, no bills larger than $20's.

DOW off 300 so far this morning, Nikkei off 600+ overnight, oil off over $1.... Interestingly gold and silver modest increase - could just be a trading blip but hopefully a sign that the commodity bear is not going to bring monetary metals down much further (a "decoupling" of sorts, as gold & silver may be considered "safe haven" regardless of copper, oil, steel, etc being in the tank)

I never have enough metal at any price. I'm not dumping my blue chips or funds, I take a long long term view. Hoping to pick up some bargains though in stocks.

JadeDragon wrote:I never have enough metal at any price. I'm not dumping my blue chips or funds, I take a long long term view. Hoping to pick up some bargains though in stocks.

I would have to agree. I'm keeping my portfolio the same, no need to panic just yet. I still have some years ahead of me to weather the storm. Truth is, if I could access some of my investments now,
I would cash them in, pay off ALL debt, retain some cash and add to the stack some more!

JadeDragon wrote:I never have enough metal at any price. I'm not dumping my blue chips or funds, I take a long long term view. Hoping to pick up some bargains though in stocks.

I would have to agree. I'm keeping my portfolio the same, no need to panic just yet. I still have some years ahead of me to weather the storm. Truth is, if I could access some of my investments now,
I would cash them in, pay off ALL debt, retain some cash and add to the stack some more!

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:

68Camaro wrote:

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Don't worry though, the Fed will throw everything they can at it. I seriously doubt they'll let the market fall below -20%. QE4 on the way soon. They'll ban shorting too.

Agree, at least that that's the administration's desire and they will work hard to that end. I think their line in the sand is roughly the 2007 high of 14000 and change for the Dow, and the equivalent for the other highly watched indices. Obama will insist that he go out with a market "higher/better" than the Bush peak (even if not adjusted for inflation). From 16000 that's only 2000 points (not far from the current point) so they only have 12.5% left to play with. If the rest of the world is collapsing and the US retail market is imploding I think it could be a challenge for them to keep it above 14000. But they will try, even if as you say they have to resort to a major additional stimulus (they won't call it QE4, they probably won't call it QE anything.

Hmmm, how could they do this? (Short of just bumping up their stock buying by 10x until they've essentially nationalized a large part of the market - which might well be what they do). They've already got interest rates at record lows and people still won't buy. They already have half the population on major hand-outs. A tax holiday might be an approach but unless businesses believe it is a long-term change they won't change their approaches and the consumer market will be far too slow to react to that.

I'm not sure I can think of anything they have left that could be effective at this point, short of just buying the market? If they do that, everyone's 401K will have essentially been transformed into US Treasuries. Which is sorta what they want anyway.

Any other thoughts on this?

Maybe TPTB are green-lighting a crash in order to justify converting all 401k's to US Treasuries (?).

Just like they did in 2008/09, the Fed and US Government will create new schemes/scams undreamed of. TPTB will do anything and everything to put a floor underneath it. Even if TPTB prop the stock market, they cannot do much to save a crashing economy. Things are going to get much worse for people in the US, that's for sure. Majority of US sheeple are totally ignorant to what is happening and what is about to happen. When it goes down the elites will fly off to some remote location while the majority of us will be killing each other over a can of beans. Ammo will be worth more than silver and gold someday... I have no doubts about that.

Ok - we're seeing the immediate response, which is market pumping and (a few years ago who woulda thought?) the spreading of negative interest rates. The market has become their tool (there is no reliable price discovery any more on any item that impacts the general market) and we'll see some response. As you note they (including every major central bank) will create new schemes/scams undreamed of. While a major black swan event could stimulate something going out of control they are going to use all their tools to ride this bronco to the ground - at the end of which they will control or own most assets. Fascism turned socialism, or vice versa - I'm not sure which. I'm not sure there is a name for what they are doing.