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Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:31 am
by neilgin1
Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

By Mark Nestmann • March 15, 2016

It’s bad enough depositing your money into a bank account and earning essentially zero interest on it, or in some countries, having a negative interest rate.

It’s even worse knowing that once you deposit your money in a bank, it’s not really yours anymore. You have turned over your property to the bank in return for a debt claim. You become an unsecured creditor holding an IOU.

Worst of all, there’s the “bail-in,” which we all became familiar with during the 2013 banking collapse in Cyprus. Some uninsured depositors got half of their money back, although at one bank, customers received nothing of their deposits over the “insured” amount.

In 2014, the leaders of the Group of Twenty (G20) – representing the world’s 20 largest economies – declared the Cyprus model should apply globally. They did so in a mind-numbing tome entitled Adequacy of Loss-Absorbing Capacity of Global Systemically Important Banks in Resolution.(http://www.fsb.org/2014/11/adequacy-of- ... esolution/)

Deposits in banks that are “too big to fail” will be promptly recapitalized with their unsecured debt. And… guess what? The largest chunk of unsecured debt is your bank deposits. Insolvent banks will recapitalize themselves by converting your deposits into worthless bank stock. This avoids taxpayer-funded bailouts that proved politically unpopular during the last financial crisis.

Oh, and get this… the G20 has also declared that derivatives – the toxic contracts Warren Buffett calls “financial weapons of mass destruction” – are secured debts. Since your bank deposits are only unsecured debt, guess who gets your money if the bet goes the wrong way for the bank? Answer: It’s not you.

Heads, the bank wins. Tails, you lose.

It’s practically guaranteed, too, that in the next financial crisis, there’ll be a whole slew of bank failures. That’s despite the fact that the mainstream financial media assures us that central banks have imposed higher capital requirements, stress tests, etc., on banks to ensure that when the “big one” hits, your deposits will be safe.

Don’t believe a word of it. The amount of capital that banks hold compared to the money on deposit is frighteningly low. In the US, the five largest banks have a capital ratio as a percentage of assets of only 6% – although that’s double what it was in 2008. In effect, if every depositor in a bank demands their money back simultaneously – the classic “bank run” – the largest US banks could repay only six cents on the dollar before they ran out of money. And since most banks don’t keep a lot of cash on hand, it could even be less.

It’s worth remembering that historically, US banks were much better capitalized. For instance, in 1842, US banks had an average capital ratio of 60% – ten times that of the largest banks today. That was an era in which bank competition was based on safety, because no deposit insurance was in effect.

This chart from Bloomberg News says it all:
Image

Sure, in many countries your bank deposits are “insured.” In the US, the first $250,000 in your account qualifies for deposit insurance through the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). But for every $100 on deposit, the FDIC has only $1.06 with which to back it. Doesn’t that make you feel warm and fuzzy about the safety of your bank deposits?

Indeed, there’s only a single type of bank that would be completely safe: one where 100% of each depositor’s funds are kept in reserve as cash or other highly liquid assets. The bank would offer conventional checking accounts for a monthly fee but hold no assets other than cash, gold, etc., in its vault.

Mainstream economists hate this idea, because the deposits couldn’t be lent out. They argue that businesses would find it much more difficult to obtain financing; homebuyers wouldn’t be able to get mortgages; etc. The economy would collapse into depression.

Frankly, I don’t buy this argument. With online peer-to-peer lending services proliferating, even in a world of 100% reserve banking, individuals and businesses will be able to obtain financing. Moreover, peer-to-peer lending services often offer lower interest rates than banks. Far from collapsing, the economy would prosper.

In any event, we’re about to find out if I’m right or wrong.

Central banks and mainstream economists thought negative interest rates and worldwide bail-in policies would encourage consumers to invest in riskier assets and businesses to borrow more, thus stoking the global economy.

That didn’t happen. Instead, the demand for cash has gone through the roof, along with secure places to store it. In Japan, which instituted negative interest rates last year, one popular brand of safe is sold out. In Switzerland, circulation of the 1,000 franc note – worth about US$1,000 – increased 17% in 2015 after the Swiss National Bank imposed negative interest rates.

This behavior deeply disturbs the powers that be. In response, they’ve imposed stricter and stricter controls on cash. I wrote about those controls in this essay from 2015, and since then, it’s only gotten worse.

Of course, your friendly central banker will never tell you it wants to abolish cash so that you have no alternative but to keep all your money in a bank where your deposits can be bailed in at the click of a mouse. Instead, the motivations are loftier – specifically, to “fight crime” and “facilitate tax compliance.” For instance, former US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers wants a global ban on notes worth more than $50 or $100. He claims the linkage between high denomination notes and crime is totally convincing.

I must admit to feeling some sympathy for central bankers. In response to lagging economic growth worldwide, they’ve been forced to innovate in ways that have never been tried before. Negative interest rates and bail-ins are just two examples.

It hasn’t worked. Most people are rational and respond to adverse financial incentives (like negative interest rates) by doing whatever they can to preserve their capital. They hoard cash, buy assets like gold that can’t be bailed in, and move their money to the safest possible banks.

If you haven’t already done so, maybe you should consider joining them.

Mark Nestmann
Nestmann.com

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:36 am
by neilgin1
a note:....seems a small flicker of an "awakening" is happening, and like a small wave far offshore, the closer it gets into shallow waters, it becomes a tsunami.......we shall see.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:28 pm
by Cu Penny Hoarder
I removed most of my cash from the bank right before the crash in 2008. What really made me stand up and take notice was when the dollar "broke" in September 2008 and the banks said they could only pay 0.97 cents on the dollars invested in money market funds. Many billions of dollars was extracted from money market funds during a 2-3 period.

I always keep bare minimum of cash in the bank just to pay monthly bills. Everything else is stashed in the safe or converted to PMs.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:06 pm
by beauanderos
Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:I removed most of my cash from the bank right before the crash in 2008. What really made me stand up and take notice was when the dollar "broke" in September 2008 and the banks said they could only pay 0.97 cents on the dollars invested in money market funds. Many billions of dollars was extracted from money market funds during a 2-3 period.

I always keep bare minimum of cash in the bank just to pay monthly bills. Everything else is stashed in the safe or converted to PMs.

+1 I go even further. I don't keep anything in the bank, except the bare minimums. When I do need to write a check for various monthly expenses... only then
do I go and deposit funds to cover what I've written.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:09 pm
by Doctor Steuss
Somewhat of a tangeant, but something to keep in mind:

If you are planning on financing a home purchase anywhere in the near future, make sure you either leave your money in the bank, or get it into a bank account well before your purchase. Most loans (especially government backed) will require any funds used in the purchase to be "seasoned" (i.e. sitting in the account for a long time, and/or traceable). This includes closing costs, and EMD. I have even seen a few investor backed loans require reserve funds to be seasoned as well.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:16 pm
by Rodebaugh
Doctor Steuss wrote:Somewhat of a tangeant, but something to keep in mind:

If you are planning on financing a home purchase anywhere in the near future, make sure you either leave your money in the bank, or get it into a bank account well before your purchase. Most loans (especially government backed) will require any funds used in the purchase to be "seasoned" (i.e. sitting in the account for a long time, and/or traceable). This includes closing costs, and EMD. I have even seen a few investor backed loans require reserve funds to be seasoned as well.


Correct and excellent advise. :thumbup:

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:12 pm
by wheeler_dealer
Sound advice being offered. If you withdraw your funds from the bank I might caution keeping good records to demonstrate the source of said funds. Otherwise possession of large sums of cash could be misconstrued as to the source. Just my opinion based on current readings.
Spot on with the advice about seasoned money for home purchase. When I just bought my house two years ago, they checked back to see where my deposit and other funds were from.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:17 pm
by wheeler_dealer
P.S. If you are acting as your own personal bank, and putting cash under the matress, smaller bills are better. Avoid $100.00 bills when possible converting them to such as quickly as possible.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:20 pm
by TXSTARFIRE
What is the reason for avoiding 100.00 notes? Cash takes up a lot of space if it is not in $100.00 notes.

tt

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:11 pm
by 68Camaro
Some $100 notes are not bad - but there is belief by some that they will be targeted either as "drug money" or possibly withdrawn from circulation, which will then put intense pressure on the $20 bill (and the others) - by which time you won't be able to get them in any quantity.

Vacuum pack your bills. Keeps them from molding and smelling (especially if you are not in a dry climate). Protects them from moisture. And especially, it compresses them to half the typical thickness.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:51 am
by AGgressive Metal
If you are not going to have cash in the bank you better have multiple credit cards because what if you are in an accident or have other medical emergency out of town and need to pay deductibles? You aren't going to be able to go back to the bunker and retrieve your secret cash.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:40 am
by chris6084
wheeler_dealer wrote:Sound advice being offered. If you withdraw your funds from the bank I might caution keeping good records to demonstrate the source of said funds. Otherwise possession of large sums of cash could be misconstrued as to the source. Just my opinion based on current readings.
Spot on with the advice about seasoned money for home purchase. When I just bought my house two years ago, they checked back to see where my deposit and other funds were from.



I just bought a house and had to deal with documenting all my funds. I had to provide proof of a $12K+ deposit that I got from selling gold to Provident. A copy of the invoice was sufficient. There were no questions of where the gold came from. But then, they threw a complete hissy fit over $2K in cash I withdrew from one bank and deposited in another. Even though I had a withdrawal receipt from the first bank and a deposit slip from the second bank within an hour. The funds from the original bank were also very well 'seasoned'. This cash transaction delayed things by a couple of days because they had to get approval from 'higher ups' if this cash was ok to be used as part of my down payment.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:41 am
by neilgin1
every post...sound advice.
these sure are strange days, i'm up at 3 AM doing a hard count on Ag stack, so before I go to coinflation, to use their Ag calculator, I went over to PCGS, just to peruse numi prices on the 90%'ers, and 40's I got, Roosies, barbers, Merc's Wash's, Franks, Kenn's, Ike's, etc....I noticed something a bit strange.....every recent trade will have either a green triangle for up, and a dark triangle for a down price trade.

and I kid you not, EVERY single trade, all them in the high MS's 66-69....was DOWN...all of them, and that says to me, (correct me if i'm wrong) that guys are hitting the numi premium to raise cash, OR they realize that the numi premium is a subjective thing, so why not pound into the bids, get the premium out and go for either intrinsic Ag, or paper fiat....that's how I read it.

I stopped buying 90's and 40's a couple years back, (I have enough to trade) and I only buy ONE type of Ag .9999 1 toz coin, and that's 25 toz rolls of Maples, because the Canadians got real about anti-counterfeiting measures. ASE's scare the heck out of me.

Chris, you're story about that bank throwing a hissy fit over a mere 2k cash withdrawal, and the ensuing "OK" from higher ups, that it used to purchase a house, got me sitting up straight in my chair. Sure is a spooky tale, i'll tell you that. That's why I am "camped out" in my nearby farm based credit union (330 mln USD assets, corn, beans, dairy and beef money) I know everybody there, and they know me, its a good deal, you don't deal with a harried underpaid functionary, or some disembodied voice on the phone....

strange days, and I don't mean to get political, but these "primaries" and the main shebang in Nov? Trump or Hilary?

boy, when you love America, and you just look around at everything? You just get sad. Angry? not me, it clouds the judgement you're gonna need. wise posts, all you men, n.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:38 am
by twoten01
chris6084 wrote:
wheeler_dealer wrote:Sound advice being offered. If you withdraw your funds from the bank I might caution keeping good records to demonstrate the source of said funds. Otherwise possession of large sums of cash could be misconstrued as to the source. Just my opinion based on current readings.
Spot on with the advice about seasoned money for home purchase. When I just bought my house two years ago, they checked back to see where my deposit and other funds were from.



I just bought a house and had to deal with documenting all my funds. I had to provide proof of a $12K+ deposit that I got from selling gold to Provident. A copy of the invoice was sufficient. There were no questions of where the gold came from. But then, they threw a complete hissy fit over $2K in cash I withdrew from one bank and deposited in another. Even though I had a withdrawal receipt from the first bank and a deposit slip from the second bank within an hour. The funds from the original bank were also very well 'seasoned'. This cash transaction delayed things by a couple of days because they had to get approval from 'higher ups' if this cash was ok to be used as part of my down payment.

How long does the cash have to be "seasoned" for? I will be buying my first house later this year or early next year. I am in a first time home buyers program through my bank ( I make 10 monthly deposits of $187.50, and they give me an extra $7500 towards closing costs) so all that cash is in the bank, but I have multiple safes at home with cash in them. That I will be using for part of the down-payment

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:38 am
by twoten01
chris6084 wrote:
wheeler_dealer wrote:Sound advice being offered. If you withdraw your funds from the bank I might caution keeping good records to demonstrate the source of said funds. Otherwise possession of large sums of cash could be misconstrued as to the source. Just my opinion based on current readings.
Spot on with the advice about seasoned money for home purchase. When I just bought my house two years ago, they checked back to see where my deposit and other funds were from.



I just bought a house and had to deal with documenting all my funds. I had to provide proof of a $12K+ deposit that I got from selling gold to Provident. A copy of the invoice was sufficient. There were no questions of where the gold came from. But then, they threw a complete hissy fit over $2K in cash I withdrew from one bank and deposited in another. Even though I had a withdrawal receipt from the first bank and a deposit slip from the second bank within an hour. The funds from the original bank were also very well 'seasoned'. This cash transaction delayed things by a couple of days because they had to get approval from 'higher ups' if this cash was ok to be used as part of my down payment.

How long does the cash have to be "seasoned" for? I will be buying my first house later this year or early next year. I am in a first time home buyers program through my bank ( I make 10 monthly deposits of $187.50, and they give me an extra $7500 towards closing costs) so all that cash is in the bank, but I have multiple safes at home with cash in them. That I will be using for part of the down-payment

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:09 am
by NDFarmer
68Camaro wrote:Some $100 notes are not bad - but there is belief by some that they will be targeted either as "drug money" or possibly withdrawn from circulation, which will then put intense pressure on the $20 bill (and the others) - by which time you won't be able to get them in any quantity.

Vacuum pack your bills. Keeps them from molding and smelling (especially if you are not in a dry climate). Protects them from moisture. And especially, it compresses them to half the typical thickness.


I was thinking about this. If you are going to keep large sums of cash at home you have to worry about theft, fire, and water. So I would think you would want a good quality waterproof, fireproof safe bolted down to the floor so that it can not be carried off. If you are going to keep important money like $100,000 or $200,000 cash in your basement you don't want to be saving money on purchasing the safe, you would want to get a top of the line high quality safe.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:36 am
by Doctor Steuss
chris6084 wrote:I just bought a house and had to deal with documenting all my funds. I had to provide proof of a $12K+ deposit that I got from selling gold to Provident. A copy of the invoice was sufficient. There were no questions of where the gold came from. But then, they threw a complete hissy fit over $2K in cash I withdrew from one bank and deposited in another. Even though I had a withdrawal receipt from the first bank and a deposit slip from the second bank within an hour. The funds from the original bank were also very well 'seasoned'. This cash transaction delayed things by a couple of days because they had to get approval from 'higher ups' if this cash was ok to be used as part of my down payment.

I have seen some lenders require as little as $100 EMD to be refunded and not shown on the HUD because it was in the form of a money order and couldn't be sourced.

I think some underwriters have either been burned in the past (which makes them overly paranoid and stringent), or they just like to justify their existence in any way they can.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:41 am
by Doctor Steuss
twoten01 wrote:How long does the cash have to be "seasoned" for? I will be buying my first house later this year or early next year. I am in a first time home buyers program through my bank ( I make 10 monthly deposits of $187.50, and they give me an extra $7500 towards closing costs) so all that cash is in the bank, but I have multiple safes at home with cash in them. That I will be using for part of the down-payment

It depends on a few things. If it's a new construction home, it's safe to assume 6 months before closing (or 2-3 months prior to entering contract). The lender will want statements from when the EMD was paid at time of contract (and likely the previous 2 statements), and then updated statements when the home finally closes.

For resale, lenders generally want your last 2-3 bank statements.

So, at minumum 2-3 months, and up to 6 months in some new build situations (or if it's some kind of wanky investor-backed loan program, which as long as you have decent credit, and easily documented income, shouldn't be a concern).

Edited to add: BTW, congrats on your future purchase! Being a home owner is a pretty awesome thing.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:22 am
by wheeler_dealer
Sounds about what I went through. Prior to buying I went direct deposit of my paycheck. I curtailed all unnecessary spending using cash for everything. My whole check with no withdrawal looked good and I didn't pad my account with undocumented funds. Pay cash as much as possible, have a relative write checks for you and give them cash. If you disclose expenses on application make sure you write checks from your account to avoid misrepresentation

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:59 am
by TXSTARFIRE
68Camaro wrote:Some $100 notes are not bad - but there is belief by some that they will be targeted either as "drug money" or possibly withdrawn from circulation, which will then put intense pressure on the $20 bill (and the others) - by which time you won't be able to get them in any quantity.

Vacuum pack your bills. Keeps them from molding and smelling (especially if you are not in a dry climate). Protects them from moisture. And especially, it compresses them to half the typical thickness.


Good idea on the vacuum pack. New FRNs also take up less room than circulated notes.

I see the term EMD mentioned here, what does that stand for?

Also on the topic of "drug money" I suppose new FRNs would not have any drug residue on them, which could be an excuse for the government to steal your money.
tt

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:01 pm
by Doctor Steuss
TXSTARFIRE wrote:I see the term EMD mentioned here, what does that stand for?

Sorry about that. It stands for Earnest Money Deposit. It's the deposit made at time of contract.

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:41 pm
by justoneguy
When I bought this house, I gave the realtor $1000 check for Earnest Money Deposit.
Then instructed her not to cash it.
she stated that "it doesn't get cashed, it goes into a special account to be used at the time of closing".
I had to restate not to deposit it, as it would bounce.
I have no money to cover it!
She informed me that I would need $10k in 30 days to close.
I did come up with those funds, some of it accounted for with a paycheck.
they inquired where I got the balance of it.
I told the bankstas that I cashed in a 5 gallon jug of change. [was true]
No problem everything went as planned

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:43 pm
by AGgressive Metal
justoneguy wrote:I told the bankstas that I cashed in a 5 gallon jug of change.


:lol:

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:03 pm
by Catfish4u
neilgin1 wrote:strange days, and I don't mean to get political, but these "primaries" and the main shebang in Nov? Trump or Hilary?

boy, when you love America, and you just look around at everything? You just get sad. Angry? not me, it clouds the judgement you're gonna need. wise posts, all you men, n.


Libertarian candidate Governor Gary Johnson would be a MUCH better choice for our country and also for most of us personally!

Re: Two BIG Reasons NOT to keep your cash in the bank

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:10 pm
by Cu Penny Hoarder
justoneguy wrote:When I bought this house, I gave the realtor $1000 check for Earnest Money Deposit.
I told the bankstas that I cashed in a 5 gallon jug of change. [was true]


Thoroughly searched before cashing it in... I hope. :thumbup: :D