Survival Silver

[TenBears]

Many on Realcent used to have a survivalist bent, and that may still be true today. The topic of how much silver we should all have saved up for a TEOTWAWKI event was sometimes discussed. Is there any conventional wisdom or thoughts about how much junk silver or other silver bullion (rounds) we should have on hand for trade if TEOTWAWKI occurs? I know the economy is good at the moment, but this topic was very popular when the housing bubble burst and people thought we might be in for another 1930s type depression.

I recall people on some forums claiming we should have about $1,000 face value saved. But, that would be almost $16,000 at current spot. That's a lot of money to have sitting idle. Looking forward to your thoughts.

[Recyclersteve]

I remember hearing $1,000 face value per person, so four bags of junk 90% for a family of four. It has been a while since I heard that number mentioned and don't remember the source offhand (might have been either Howard Ruff or Ted Butler).

Yes, it isn't earning anything, but I think of it as an insurance policy. I don't call my insurance carrier and ask them what is going on with the money I have with them. Why should it be any other way with precious metals?

[TenBears]

I do not think it is apples to apples, but good point nevertheless. And, I am with you. I recall that $1,000 face number being the goal of many. Using your analogy, it becomes an issue of how much silver "insurance" one needs.

$1,000 face/person is a lot. That would be $64k laying around for a family of four. That amount gets to the point of not even being doable or realistic for most. The return of 64k in an index fund over the last few years would have been significant.

[Changechecker]

Agree with Steve that $1000.00 per family member was a suggestion that Howard Ruff shared in "How to prosper during the coming bad years"

[Recyclersteve]

Agree with Steve that $1000.00 per family member was a suggestion that Howard Ruff shared in "How to prosper during the coming bad years"

There is my source! Thanks Changechecker!

[Recyclersteve]

For those who think that $1k in face value of 90% silver is a lot, look at it this way. It is less than 1 BITCOIN!!! (tongue planted firmly in cheek)

[TenBears]

Ha! I may jump on the Bitcoin bandwagon when I can figure out how to take actual possession of one. . .

Thinking of Howard Ruff, I wonder what the spot price of silver was back when he made his suggestion. If Ruff made his suggestion when silver spot was $4 or $5, that is one thing. But, what about when the Hunts tried to corner the silver market and silver was at $50/oz? Only the elite of the elite could have afforded to accumulate $1,000 face for every family member at that time. And, fantasizing here, if I had $1,000 face of silver for every family member and silver was at $50/oz., I would probably be selling large chunks to put into other investments.

[johnbrickner]

I have such a survivalist bent. Only it's thru long-term eyes ("If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes"). Seven generation type. Looks like I'm going to have to count the junk to see what I've got.

And yes, it's insurance. My financial advisor asked my why I had so much in PMs and PM mining companies. I said "insurance". His reply was "for what?" Me, "it's my if the world goes to [shucks] or haven't you been keeping up with current events." Him, " The stock market is hitting all time highs and your investments with me are doing great". Me, "My point exactly". I decided he was unaware and only wants assets under management but, he's good to balance the contrarian in me out.

Good to see so many of you having read Howard Ruff. He's the one got me started including keeping a year's worth of food in the larder (in our case about 6 months). Also insurance. We started or rather stopped replenishing the stock at the start of summer to bank the money for our son's college. Going to join BJs with a free 3 month membership at the end of the month to restock and get tires for the Camry for spring.

Extra contracting for me over the summer when I don't have to work at the school district and pearl diving for the boy coupled with the stocked food and what I call living austerity enabled us to pay his first semester tuition, room and board (sans full merit scholarship plus some other smaller ones) of $11,K from cash flow, take no student loan, nor lessen the retirement or the girl's private school tuition. We will see if we can do similar this spring.

This is just the tactical stuff so short-term. But, when you can cover yourself well with the tactics over time it becomes strategy.

Howard's book How to Prosper During the Coming Bad Years first published in '79. Silver went from a low of about $5.98 shortly after the year started to over $32 at years end.

Bitcoin? Parabolic on the charts. I'm a cybercurrencyTard so a no brainer right now to stay on the sidelines at this time. I buy when prices go down and things look cheap, not when my barber or cabby has tips for me. But, in all honesty no one I know personally in my day to day activities knows more than I do about these digital equations so I suspect they have a ways to go. Personally, I like what LongJohn has done which is to have sold a chunk and left what he holds in wallet as reserves.

[JadeDragon]

BBC again today discussing the bitcoin bubble. Reporter says someone from another media outlet stopped her asking about bitcoin afraid they were missing out. She said that is how bubbles work.

[neilgin1]

Brother TenBears,
nice topic...there's a grist here for a real good conversation, but its a little late for me...(meaning, i'll write another post with my thoughts, whatever they are worth)....since we brought up the word "survivalist"...I wanted to pin up a Frontline documentary I saw the other day...I thought it was going to be a hit piece on the Bundy's....those ranchers down in Nevada?..they tried to make it a hit piece, but watch between the "lines"....when it came down to their court trials, watch what a jury of their own peers DID....this might seem off topic, but these are strange days. Indeed, silver is "currency" insurance for the paper "fiat money", TPTSB got us wrapped up....but here's where I been headed....you have to start thinking of ALSO , alternative forms of tradable currency....its better if you live rural...for instance, if you have two cases of cheap vodka half pints stashed, they would trade good....just some thoughts, my fingers are getting "tarred"....here's the link to a documentary, I think most of you boys will find VERY interesting...i'll also make recommend a film , just came out, that is a 5 star, called "Wind River"...i'll put the trailer up on that too, be blessed, n.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... overnment/

[knibloe]

My goal is :

1 ton of copper
100 oz silver
10 oz of gold.

the original thought was to gather my first ton of copper and then continue sorting and selling to use the profits for buying PM. Should have sorted and sold when the selling was good.!!

[IdahoCopper]

I sold 80% of the hoard and put it in bitcoin and other cryptos. I began this speculation 21 days ago, putting in a total of $17,500 over 10 days. Yesterday I was up almost $9,000. Today, I'm up just over $7,000. In three weeks.

I sold the silver at $17.01. Today, spot is $15.79. If/when I get up to $17,500 over my "investment" amount, I will start withdrawing USD$1,750 per week, for 10 weeks.

Yes, for sure there is significant risk. I could lose the money allocated to buy the sailboat for cruising to Mexico and Tahiti. Or, I could maybe buy one heck of a better yacht, and have a fatter cruising kitty.

[reddirtcoins]

me, well I have about 6 months of food for the family in the storm shelter. plenty of barter in coins and lots and lots of spirits. Meds, etc, etc... Everything I have is in my hands. Investments can go poof.. SS, retirement, 401k, stocks.. those are not in my hands. I'll be ok until the marauding horde comes to the door. That or I end up as a shadow with a drink in my hand on the hillside because of the BIG-ONE going off. As far a face value? I will never think it is sitting idle. Paper money sits, not metals. anyways if poof ever happens I'll be glad I have what I have. Need to build my library a little more and I'm ready as I can be..

HINT: Primary use for metals, is paying property taxes. If the bad times come, I will not lose because of the taxman. He will never go away. That I have seen from the eyes of generations. All of my properties are covered past 100 years of age.

Oh.. don't forget to stockpile TP.. just saying...

[Recyclersteve]

Oh.. don't forget to stockpile TP.. just saying...

Not just toilet paper, but also soap (both bar and liquid form). I have this feeling there are a ton of people who will run out of both pretty quickly, so they could be good barter tools. The problem with the toilet paper is that it just takes up so much room. Fortunately, a year's worth of soap wouldn't take up that much room.

[johnbrickner]

. . . Yesterday I was up almost $9,000. Today, I'm up just over $7,000. In three weeks . . .

You have not lost if you take the money and run when you are ahead.

[reddirtcoins]

Oh.. don't forget to stockpile TP.. just saying...

Not just toilet paper, but also soap (both bar and liquid form). I have this feeling there are a ton of people who will run out of both pretty quickly, so they could be good barter tools. The problem with the toilet paper is that it just takes up so much room. Fortunately, a year's worth of soap wouldn't take up that much room.

Talked with a lot of people over in Greece years ago and the top things on their list for barter was TP and wait for it... Romance Novels.. what the heck? Guess you need an escape... so yes, I have books...

[Recyclersteve]

I totally agree that it will be good to have a lot of books on hand for the increased downtime. I can just imagine reading some great prepper's tip/trick in the middle of a crisis and shouting out "Why didn't I have the foresight to do this when it mattered?" That question will then be followed by some choice expletives.

[Morsecode]

Agree with Steve that $1000.00 per family member was a suggestion that Howard Ruff shared in "How to prosper during the coming bad years"

That's quite a blast from the past. I hadn't thought of him for years. My boss at my first job had that book on his desk. I was making $11,000 a year at the time so stashing a $20,0000 bag of coins was a bit out of the question.

But we seemed closer to doomsday back then, and precious metals were not just a so-called safe haven, they were the only safe haven. Ruff and others believed you would be able to buy a gallon of gas for your car simply by presenting the station owner with a pre '64 quarter, when your silverless neighbors would be walking to work. He sold a lot of books to a lot of people who thought that was plausible.

That was around the time I first got the bug...but it was for no specific reason other than hoarding treasure. I figured then (and know absolutely today) the ballyhooed precious metal insurance strategy would only work during the run-up to disaster, and will be every bit as worthless as paper currency during the actual End Times, if they come.

Ruff's prepping sermons, which I completely ignored in 1980, is really the only useful advice that survives intact. Unfortunately, my idea of long term prepping is buying two boxes of Frosted Flakes in the same week. Wish I could improve on that score.

[Changechecker]

I used the silver dime as a yardstick. When I read the book the first time I could use a silver dime (valued at thirty five cents) to exchange for a can of soup. Once I had stocked up my survival goods (approximately three months worth) I began to purchase silver dimes and other small denomination junk silver. A gallon of gas was the same price as a silver quarter.
When inflation began to rise I would have been able to trade a quarter for frns to buy a gallon.
Today I can trade a silver dime (1.20) for frns equivalent to the same can of soup. A silver quarter exchanged today will buy a gallon of gas.
Market distortions aside I can imagine that the correlation will continue going forward.
One thousand ounces was beyond my reach then as it is now however having a reasonable amount of small denomination junk silver on hand may help get through some tough times. Just my opinion and observations.

[Recyclersteve]

One thousand ounces was beyond my reach then as it is now however having a reasonable amount of small denomination junk silver on hand may help get through some tough times. Just my opinion and observations.

The bag isn't 1,000 ounces- it is $1,000 face which is 700+ ounces.

[68Camaro]

And $2000 face (for a couple) is 1400+ oz. Regardless, his point remains the same.

[neilgin1]

Oh.. don't forget to stockpile TP.. just saying...

Not just toilet paper, but also soap (both bar and liquid form). I have this feeling there are a ton of people who will run out of both pretty quickly, so they could be good barter tools. The problem with the toilet paper is that it just takes up so much room. Fortunately, a year's worth of soap wouldn't take up that much room.

Talked with a lot of people over in Greece years ago and the top things on their list for barter was TP and wait for it... Romance Novels.. what the heck? Guess you need an escape... so yes, I have books...

Red Dirt and THE Recycler.....spot on, between you both......a guy can buy every darn toy in the world....you can get mil spec body armor....$1500.....you cant get an IR/Night Vision scope for a long rifle, 2500-3500 (the Rolls Royce class)......and, what'll kill you is the smallest pathogen.......you could be climbing over old pasture rusted barbed wire and get nicked.....and just forget about it, tiny knick, no big deal until the next night, you're burning with fever....if its grid down....no ER.....what's your diagnosis?....gone septic?.......better think quick, and I hope you have a three IV Course of new gen anti-bio's.....but what if its tetanus?.....this is all theoretical, but I know you get my point........tp, other hygienic paper, soaps, (you can get REALLY good deals buying ....say Ivory hand soap by the case and case....liquid too.....bleach either liquid or powder is magic...etc.....point i'm trying add is, I think, when consider WHAT YOU NEED.......think mid 19th century.....you also hit on something "romance novels"....which really goes to the morale aspect....preserving morale...which are the two words that help us go from MERE survival to thriving......BOOKS.....knowledge......paper, pencils, pens....board games......LAUGHTER....creation....whether it be a poem or a drawing.....I also got a case of Bibles stashed, hard cover, in case the Bible is deemed "hate speech"......I see various "survivalist" websites..and they're good...BUT I noticed the whole grim head/heart space takes over....which is MERELY to "survive"?....imo, if one gets into that rabbit hole, that's a grim joyless exercise and you begin to lose the most important attribute in your soul....Love....and service....sorry to rant, made the coffee too strong, n

[neilgin1]

And $2000 face (for a couple) is 1400+ oz. Regardless, his point remains the same.

68 and all......I just remembered when it was still "okay" to buy auction rolls of US 90% and 40% pre65 Ag coins on Ebay....I remember I would watch rolls...from a handful of straight up dealers, who I had established relations with (that includes paying within 2 minutes of winning the roll...dealers love that on Ebay).......beautiful rolls I got...this before the last big "up"....and even when we started "up"....like 2010..into 2011...almost touched $50.....still buying....bot 90's 40's (65-70 Kenns, 71-74 Ikes) bot BRICKS of nickels at face.......hundreds of pounds of 95% copper Lincolns....if I WANTED a roll of 90's, I would blow away bid......did I pay up in that period, 2011-2014?.....sure.....but I didn't care, because I wasn't selling....then the Chinese and alibaba started minting fakes.....and I stayed with my trusted dealers, until they ....sold out, or got sick of living between the basis.......by this time i'm 3 times past the "Ruff" number....my last purchase of Ag was a pretty big(for me)buy of a bunch of Maple Leaf rolls...in March 2016.

I wrote all that to say this....I went back to Ebay the other day to check silver coins, rolls.....oh boy, its different world......first off, all the good smaller dealers are gone...there are VERY FEW "auction" rolls of 90% and 40's....and these rolls are questionable....here's the thing, there are STILL a few great rolls of 90's , Franklins, etc....BUT......lets say board FV is $12.....all these fine "buy it now" rolls are $299....249, 189 (AU-) etc......so if somebody is JUST getting into stacking?....good golly, it would be a nightmare......n

[everything]

Save FRN's for survival, prior to that point industrials will be crashed so hard and people desperate for money they'll be dumping silver at the LCS by the ton, and they won't be able to hardly give it a way. But, they'll still take cash because that's all they know. Have an exit plan to a country where people know how to rely on themselves and nothing but, have some life and survival skills, and keep your body strong and healthy, you'll need it. You'll know when it's time. If you can't fly or drive make sure you've got good quality clothes, boots, and survival gear. Don't count on anything technological except your ability to make clean water and somehow eat. Their are many other scenarios like power outages, carrington event, super volcano. Some of the guys on these forums live in hurricane prone areas, they are way more up on hunkering down in one place and fortifying their homes. You'll be able to carry a little silver, to make change and barter if they'll take it, but you'll want some gold, as it's more $$/value in a smaller package.

[Treetop]

I absolutely think survival silver is a good idea. What scenario are we talking about "surviving?" Reset of the petro dollar? War? Collapse of the just in time food grid? Social upheaval of some sort? Major disease outbreak? My point in bringing up so many things is that as off the radar such things are for most people all have happened, and all will happen again one day. Take "the year without a summer". It happened in 1816, most likely because of a volcanic eruption and decimated crops in most regions. Such an event in todays world when food stocks are WAY lower per person, with more people would be even more devastating.

So for me things like this relate to the types of things that are possible measured against what I can afford and how likely such things are within a given time frame. I consider the reset of the dollar the most likely. So financial assets are big in such a scenario, a stack of fiat and silver. How much? I dunno how wealthy are you and what are you trying to preserve?

Food is huge in most scenarios imo, even if some event happens food might be growing fine but it might be hard to get or more frantic to buy it, like black friday each day if people are scared. A few months of dried foods properly stored (and water) can fit in most anyones budget if they have a bit of room for it.

Basic meds and extra of any meds you need fit into the same types of scenarios. While in many scenarios food or finances might be an issue meds might not if you have the money for them and basic supply lines are intact. You probably wont be using silver at the local pharmacy in such an event either.

More extreme events, many others here covered well. Soaps, perhaps replacement parts for wells, or well buckets. Playing cards make a great tradable item, cheap to have a few decks as well. Spices are a great trading item also imo. Even if the government is distributing basic food items, they are going to be focusing on calories not taste. I think it was argentina I read about a financial collapse, in any event the guy was saying fuel for regular lighters was big. People needed fires to cook etc, and he made a profit filling a large bottle he used to fill small ones.

Every type of event I listed and others are inevitable just perhaps not in our life times. I think despite our modern tech it is more imperative then ever to think ahead though because of our high populations and the very efficiency of our system that makes life easier and allows for just in time delivery and reliance on such far away food stuffs.

To get back to the question though, for me silver in such a scenario is definitely important but only one of many things and for me it relates to what I am trying to preserve because for me I see it as money that will continue to have some value through most events. In very extreme events I wont have bills to pay but might need other things, only barter or metals could buy. In milder events, its in the least a store of value I can trade or sell for the cash I need for perhaps a mortgage or meds or what have you.

Oh, last but not least, being treetop, I need to of course add that an often ove looked "survival" item, is food production and for those who work you can probably still find the time to put in some fruit and nut trees and berry bushes. If you can the space you cant probably go wrong with those imo. Most everyone can find things without pest issues if they search enough.