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https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/three-jpmorgan-traders-charged-massive-gold-market-manipulation-fraud

DOJ Accuses JPMorgan's Precious Metals Trading Desk Of Being A Criminal Enterprise

"I was instructed that if a client wished to sell futures I should simultaneously place both bids and offers with the intent of canceling the bids prior to execution..."


ITS ALL A SCAM.

Wow, seems like it’s definitely no longer speculation of market manipulation.

Really?

Been saying this for years and a few people in this forum didn't want to acknowledge it or believe it.

Since 2011 JPM has been spoofing/manipulating the PM markets and accumulating physical silver (on the cheap) all the way down.

Let the melt-up begin!

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Really?

Been saying this for years and a few people in this forum didn't want to acknowledge it or believe it.

Since 2011 JPM has been spoofing/manipulating the PM markets and accumulating physical silver (on the cheap) all the way down.

Let the melt-up begin!

Much longer than that if you believe good old Ted Butler, who has been basically cast as a hack because he was decades ahead of the perception of reality. I'm skeptical that the DOJ will do anything though. The CFTC never did when Andrew Maguire had email proof, yet somehow Bart Chilton got a show on RT talking about things of that nature after being inept in his role.

in 2000 I got a mailing from Investment Rarities, a bullion dealer in Minnesota run by Jim Cook (who wrote the novel "Full Faith and Credit") and in it was literally a book written by Cook and Ted Butler detailing silvers fundamentals and Ted Butler detailed the silver manipulation. It was so compelling (with silver under $5/oz at the time) that I switched from being a coin collector to being a bullion accumulator and I haven't stopped since. I gave up reading about the manipulation in silver a while back because every couple of years the CFTC would threaten a big investigation and it would either not come to fruition or they would "find nothing". Remember Bart Chilton? (he actually died at only 58 this past April).

So I have no doubt JP Morgan was doing something fishy but the public just continues not to "get it".

Just keep stacking real silver.

silverflake wrote:in 2000 I got a mailing from Investment Rarities, a bullion dealer in Minnesota run by Jim Cook (who wrote the novel "Full Faith and Credit") and in it was literally a book written by Cook and Ted Butler detailing silvers fundamentals and Ted Butler detailed the silver manipulation. It was so compelling (with silver under $5/oz at the time) that I switched from being a coin collector to being a bullion accumulator and I haven't stopped since. I gave up reading about the manipulation in silver a while back because every couple of years the CFTC would threaten a big investigation and it would either not come to fruition or they would "find nothing". Remember Bart Chilton? (he actually died at only 58 this past April).

So I have no doubt JP Morgan was doing something fishy but the public just continues not to "get it".

Just keep stacking real silver.

Good man. I started accumulating in 1985. I still have some $500FV bags I bought back then for just under spot... nobody wanted them.

Bart Chilton was either totally incompetent, or he was bought and paid-for.

Yes, the public is still clueless. When they start clamoring for it, that's when we should think about letting some go. It might be a hard decision because you'll need to determine if the financial system will remain intact. If it doesn't remain intact and/or hyperinflation is skyrocketing, you won't want to trade Ag for any amount of fiat currency.

silverflake wrote:in 2000 I got a mailing from Investment Rarities, a bullion dealer in Minnesota run by Jim Cook (who wrote the novel "Full Faith and Credit") and in it was literally a book written by Cook and Ted Butler detailing silvers fundamentals and Ted Butler detailed the silver manipulation. It was so compelling (with silver under $5/oz at the time) that I switched from being a coin collector to being a bullion accumulator and I haven't stopped since. I gave up reading about the manipulation in silver a while back because every couple of years the CFTC would threaten a big investigation and it would either not come to fruition or they would "find nothing". Remember Bart Chilton? (he actually died at only 58 this past April).

So I have no doubt JP Morgan was doing something fishy but the public just continues not to "get it".

Just keep stacking real silver.

I very much agree with everything you said. I once met Ted Butler ca. 2005-2007 after a presentation he gave.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote: Yes, the public is still clueless. When they start clamoring for it, that's when we should think about letting some go. It might be a hard decision because you'll need to determine if the financial system will remain intact. If it doesn't remain intact and/or hyperinflation is skyrocketing, you won't want to trade Ag for any amount of fiat currency.

I read something recently that basically said not to sell your stack when there is a panic and the price is skyrocketing, but after the dust has settled when silver is trading consistently at a much higher level- something like perhaps $100-200/oz.. Of course that is easier said than done if you have bills to be paid and can't wait for the dust to settle.

These are certainly interesting times we live in.

I have no doubt that silver is currently in short(er) supply more than most people realize. I'm old enough to remember the great silver melt (a la The Hunt Bros) of the 1980s. It was an exciting time as well as a scary time.

There was panic buying by the public. Anyone who owned true AG in any form was lining up to cash in. Everything with even a hint of silver was brought in to the neighborhood coin dealer/pawn shop. There were, of course, US90% coins, but everything else including rings, chains, candlesticks, sterling anything plus all else imaginable. People waited for 30, 60, 90 minutes to bring their "offerings" before the tribunal. Smiles were abundant for those with authentic AG. They left with a fat wallet. Plated people were rejected and dejected as they left the buying site with a shattered dream of beaucoup bucks.

The silver trajectory is definitely skyward. Where's the top this time??? My best guess is $28 per troy oz...for the foreseeable future anyway. Regardless, this is about to get interesting.

Know Common Cents wrote:I have no doubt that silver is currently in short(er) supply more than most people realize. I'm old enough to remember the great silver melt (a la The Hunt Bros) of the 1980s. It was an exciting time as well as a scary time.

There was panic buying by the public. Anyone who owned true AG in any form was lining up to cash in. Everything with even a hint of silver was brought in to the neighborhood coin dealer/pawn shop. There were, of course, US90% coins, but everything else including rings, chains, candlesticks, sterling anything plus all else imaginable. People waited for 30, 60, 90 minutes to bring their "offerings" before the tribunal. Smiles were abundant for those with authentic AG. They left with a fat wallet. Plated people were rejected and dejected as they left the buying site with a shattered dream of beaucoup bucks.

You brought back memories with this post. I was 13 year old in late 1979. I remember being in my local coin shop then. I would sit looking through the dime and quarter coin books, talking to the owner, while people were coming in with cigar boxes full of 90% coin and leaving with a handful of $50 and $100 bills. That was my "Ahh-Haa!" moment.

Know Common Cents wrote:I have no doubt that silver is currently in short(er) supply more than most people realize. I'm old enough to remember the great silver melt (a la The Hunt Bros) of the 1980s. It was an exciting time as well as a scary time.

There was panic buying by the public. Anyone who owned true AG in any form was lining up to cash in. Everything with even a hint of silver was brought in to the neighborhood coin dealer/pawn shop. There were, of course, US90% coins, but everything else including rings, chains, candlesticks, sterling anything plus all else imaginable. People waited for 30, 60, 90 minutes to bring their "offerings" before the tribunal. Smiles were abundant for those with authentic AG. They left with a fat wallet. Plated people were rejected and dejected as they left the buying site with a shattered dream of beaucoup bucks.

The silver trajectory is definitely skyward. Where's the top this time??? My best guess is $28 per troy oz...for the foreseeable future anyway. Regardless, this is about to get interesting.

I too am old enough to remember my standing in the long lines at Covina Coins in Covina, CA back in '79. The lines were very long extending outdoors and I can remember the lines were mixture of both sellers and buyers and people from each group were wheeling and dealing with each other while standing in line; and in doing so we were able to avoid the dealer premium and sales tax that awaited you once you crossed the threshold of the store's opened doors. I remember jumping into the fray with the purchase of five new 100 oz JM bars with spot at $21 and selling them back at $39 thinking $40 would be the ceiling! It turns out my timing was premature but I was happy nonetheless!

silverflake wrote:in 2000 I got a mailing from Investment Rarities, a bullion dealer in Minnesota run by Jim Cook (who wrote the novel "Full Faith and Credit") and in it was literally a book written by Cook and Ted Butler detailing silvers fundamentals and Ted Butler detailed the silver manipulation. It was so compelling (with silver under $5/oz at the time) that I switched from being a coin collector to being a bullion accumulator and I haven't stopped since. I gave up reading about the manipulation in silver a while back because every couple of years the CFTC would threaten a big investigation and it would either not come to fruition or they would "find nothing". Remember Bart Chilton? (he actually died at only 58 this past April).

So I have no doubt JP Morgan was doing something fishy but the public just continues not to "get it".

Just keep stacking real silver.

Flake and Flex, great posts......just wanna add a 2 year old factoid...…..JP has 183 million toz stored at the LME....as of 2 years/…...or a year..n

I didn't realize Chilton had passed. I can't say I know what went on behind closed doors, whether he had good intent stifled or was just playing ball. Either way, rest in peace, Bart.

I also hadn't realized that Chilton had passed. Had no strong opinion about him either way. If he was honest in his views about fair markets then he was overmatched by the forces arrayed against him and ultimately - apparently (though we don't know what we don't know) - ineffectual.

pennypicker wrote:I too am old enough to remember my standing in the long lines at Covina Coins in Covina, CA back in '79. The lines were very long extending outdoors and I can remember the lines were mixture of both sellers and buyers and people from each group were wheeling and dealing with each other while standing in line; and in doing so we were able to avoid the dealer premium and sales tax that awaited you once you crossed the threshold of the store's opened doors. I remember jumping into the fray with the purchase of five new 100 oz JM bars with spot at $21 and selling them back at $39 thinking $40 would be the ceiling! It turns out my timing was premature but I was happy nonetheless!

I spent lots of time in the LA area. Why is there a Covina and West Covina, but no East Covina?