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I see that the CME raised futures margins by 11%. What does this mean and can it be considered a way to manipulate the market by pushing out would be investors?

Or the opposite, pushing out speculators who artificially drive up prices that create bubbles. Raising margin requirements could result in stronger holders of silver in the long term and push out the greedy hedge funds that are just in it for the "action".

timmus0382 wrote:I see that the CME raised futures margins by 11%. What does this mean and can it be considered a way to manipulate the market by pushing out would be investors?

this is your reason for correction this is not first time they have raised them to shut down rise of silver china raised them up last wed night before cme china trying build a giant hoard it was getting to costly at 5o dollar silver 40dollar is better

inflationhawk wrote:Or the opposite, pushing out speculators who artificially drive up prices that create bubbles. Raising margin requirements could result in stronger holders of silver in the long term and push out the greedy hedge funds that are just in it for the "action".

Please explain how "speculators" artificially drive up prices. Also, how is an individual who buys all the physical silver they can (or hoards all the copper pennies they can) not a "greedy" speculator, but investment professionals somehow are? I would caution those who loosely toss terms around as if to suggest that there is somehow "good" (those whom you took money from) and "evil" (those who took your money) in any financially based market. Also, please explain what it means to be "just in it for the action" and why some of these folks would be freely chosen and selected by investors to manage their assets? Do you have a profile of hedge fund managers? Do you know their average education credentials and IQ?
Are you the same type of person that believes that surgeons in general are just in the action game of slicing and dicing folks on the cutting board so they can brag about their new mansion and country club membership?

I've been trading since 1993 and have yet to learn how speculators as a collective body have, by committee, chosen to determine any price level in any market.
I remember when Obama campaigned on this idea that somehow "speculators" should be prosecuted for somehow collectively deciding crude oil should be $147. Afterwords, who was the nice charity group that decided to lower crude by > $100 thereafter? LOL

Jonflyfish wrote:

inflationhawk wrote:Or the opposite, pushing out speculators who artificially drive up prices that create bubbles. Raising margin requirements could result in stronger holders of silver in the long term and push out the greedy hedge funds that are just in it for the "action".

Please explain how "speculators" artificially drive up prices. Also, how is one who buys all they can and holds physical silver is not "greedy" but investment professionals somehow are?
I've been trading since 1993 and have yet to learn how speculators as a collective body have, by committee, chosen to determine any price level in any market.
I remember when Obama campaigned on this idea that somehow "speculators" should be prosecuted for somehow collectively deciding crude oil should be $147. Afterwords, who was the nice charity group that decided to lower crude by > $100 thereafter? LOL

My view of speculators is just indivdual people who see potential for growth and want in on a future profit. There is no committee, just many indivdual people acting on info.
They just buy and sell high. When enough get in together they force prices up b/c of supply/demand. When they bail it falls.

whatsnext wrote:

Jonflyfish wrote:

inflationhawk wrote:Or the opposite, pushing out speculators who artificially drive up prices that create bubbles. Raising margin requirements could result in stronger holders of silver in the long term and push out the greedy hedge funds that are just in it for the "action".

Please explain how "speculators" artificially drive up prices. Also, how is one who buys all they can and holds physical silver is not "greedy" but investment professionals somehow are?
I've been trading since 1993 and have yet to learn how speculators as a collective body have, by committee, chosen to determine any price level in any market.
I remember when Obama campaigned on this idea that somehow "speculators" should be prosecuted for somehow collectively deciding crude oil should be $147. Afterwords, who was the nice charity group that decided to lower crude by > $100 thereafter? LOL

My view of speculators is just indivdiual people who see potential for growth and want in on a future profit. There is no committee, just many indivdiual people acting on info.
They just buy and sell high. When enough get in together they force prices up b/c of supply/demand. When they bail it falls.

Speculators also buy high and sell low. They also sell short high and cover low, Sell short low and cover high. There is no default collective position bias of "speculators". This helps provide liquidity and transparency in the markets. People are free to take price risk via position exposure.

Good point.

Jonflyfish wrote:
Speculators also buy high and sell low. They also sell short high and cover low, Sell short low and cover high. There is no default collective position bias of "speculators". This helps provide liquidity and transparency in the markets. People are free to take price risk via position exposure.

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And some short high and cover higher(47.77 on silver maybe?)

inflationhawk wrote:

Jonflyfish wrote:

whatsnext wrote:
Speculators also buy high and sell low. They also sell short high and cover low, Sell short low and cover high. There is no default collective position bias of "speculators". This helps provide liquidity and transparency in the markets. People are free to take price risk via position exposure.

And some short high and cover higher(47.77 on silver maybe?)

Only those who are disciplined. I suppose you are tossing particular level ($47.77) at me as if to say I took a loss. Of course I did. Anyone who doesn't know how to insure profits are simply guaranteeing total ruin. That is why many don't last 3 months in the trading arena. Properly controlling risk (read capital preservation) is how you protect the gains, and most importantly, stay in the game for when the big payday comes along. Selling short from $49.54 on up and holding until now, while also trading the fantastic swings in between, would be such an example...a perfect example of how to view a 6+:1 reward to risk ratio .

Cheers!

Someone I work with lost $50,000 yesterday on silver futures. These greedy investors can also be stupid losers.

30 day advance notice on a policy change would not be considered manipulative. Announcing a policy change after the markets close at 4pm and effective at the start of the next day is extremely manipulative. Don't mess or try to cut in in the action of those in power or you will get burnt.

Tourney64 wrote:Someone I work with lost $50,000 yesterday on silver futures. These greedy investors can also be stupid losers.

30 day advance notice on a policy change would not be considered manipulative. Announcing a policy change after the markets close at 4pm and effective at the start of the next day is extremely manipulative. Don't mess or try to cut in in the action of those in power or you will get burnt.

That's interesting. I made more than that yesterday and even more today trading futures. Guess some of us "greedy" types can win too (I'm only half greedy though because I also own a lot of physical, which could never be considered greed- wink wink.) I also trade OTC spot where it isn't too difficult to carry 100k oz positions and no contract requirements other than .02% margin. There are pros and cons of OTC vs exchange but some of each for different strategies to maximize their benefits is an overall plus.
Anyone who uses leverage to the degree that minimal margin increases wipes them out or severely cripples them is the first sign of stupidity.
Stupid speculators

Cheers