Realcent.org

OK... I've heard various reliable sources give conflicting info on this. I know where I stand... but where do you? Given we are believers in PM's... I'm quite sure I know where this will end up... but... I'm still gonna ask it. Would love to hear comments.

The debt ceiling must be raised. The debt ceiling is not the problem. Too much spending and not enough tax revenue are. Not raising the debt ceiling is like throwing out your refrigerator if you are over weight. It doesn't solve the problem.

How can Obama say that he may not be able to send out the next Social Security checks? If this were to happen no way will he be re elected! Hate to say it but you have to raise it...

Keep it where it is and hurry up and default!

Raising the "ceiling" just gives them an excuse to do it again later, when we reach that "ceiling", and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again....

I would ONLY raise the ceiling if major cuts, phased in gently, to the "big three" we're on the table, along with a reduction in military spending as well as a simplification and restructuring of the tax code to a VAT (or something similar).

So, I say raise it with conditions. We could tax the rich, but they don't have to bend over and take it like us serfs would. They have the resources to leave, so at least some of the extra revenue generated would be offset by expats leaving for Belize, taking their tax dollars with them.

I just think that we can, I guess, "re-condition" people to be more self-sufficient by phasing in cuts to social programs over a period of many years, leaving them with no other choice. If the implementation of SS caused savings rates to plummet (which it did), then its gradual phasedown should work in the opposite direction. People are adaptable...

Cut all funding to illegal Aliens. Stop all foreign aid to the rest of the world. I think either or both actions will free up enough cash to fund SS in the short term. Long term, I like the Ryan plan's vision for it.

hobo finds wrote:How can Obama say that he may not be able to send out the next Social Security checks? If this were to happen no way will he be re elected! Hate to say it but you have to raise it...

Obama is using this as a scare tactic. There are 700 million checks to go out on the third, mine is one of them. I say call his bluff, can't wait to see it, either way, he just lost the election anyway by threatning those recipients. The ceiling must stay.

hejira11 wrote:Cut all funding to illegal Aliens. Stop all foreign aid to the rest of the world. I think either or both actions will free up enough cash to fund SS in the short term. Long term, I like the Ryan plan's vision for it.

They fly them from Tucson to Mexico City every Day during the Summer! Thats gotta cost some $

Wow... not what I was expecting to see! I figured with the PM collectors here MOST would be AGAINST it. So far... it's pretty close. I'd have to say I'm pretty close to Bohner with this one... but I lean more towards with NOT raising it. If it must be raised... I HOPE that they at least stick to Bohner's requirements for raising it. I'm not completely against raising it... so long as they don't raise it much and so long as they balance the budget within the raise.

hobo finds wrote:

hejira11 wrote:Cut all funding to illegal Aliens. Stop all foreign aid to the rest of the world. I think either or both actions will free up enough cash to fund SS in the short term. Long term, I like the Ryan plan's vision for it.

They fly them from Tucson to Mexico City every Day during the Summer! Thats gotta cost some $

Good point. Lets get some old, non air-conditioned school busses and hire some welfare recipients enough to get them off of welfare to drive them across the border every day, then we send Mexico the bill...or at least, reduce the amount of "Aid" we send them by the exact amount.

Perhaps Im confused, but I see no need to raise the debt ceiling. If we stop spending more then we take in wont we be able to pay our debts????

why in the world should we continue to raise it?

Arent we essentially telling our creditors if we dont raise our self imposed debt limits that we will stop paying our debt? Thats rather insane....

Also all this talk about whether or not a debt ceiling is constitutional is silly. I read it. It seems not paying the debt is the unconstitutional part, NOT setting a self imposed limit to the amount of debt we will accept.....

Spending and tax rates are only two parts of the problem. The regulatory load is also acting to depress the economy. Lifting that load might be enough to pull us out of the depression without cutting spending or increasing anyone's taxes.

BTW, the only rich who can be taxed are the ones moving their money, and that means creating or preserving jobs.

As an example, many of the local fishing boat owners make several million a year, gross. They don't get to keep much of that as it is, and if their tax load is increased, they will simply downsize, go to a smaller boat, use smaller/less gear, cut crew, etc. Where's the benifit to the economy then?

Drastically cut spending on everything! Drastically raise taxes on everyone! That will implode the economy faster than raising the debt ceiling. We are so freaking screwed!

The House of Representatives has the duty to create an appropriations bill. They are the ones who decide what the USA spends money on. Call your Rep. and tell them to get off their asses and make a spending bill!!! If Obama kills it and cuts off money to seniors, then it's on him!

All this drama is for the spectators. It's political posturing for re-election purposes. It's disgusting.

Call your rep. and chew them out! Tell them G.O.Y.A.!!!

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Drastically cut spending on everything! Drastically raise taxes on everyone! That will implode the economy faster than raising the debt ceiling. We are so freaking screwed!

Heres the thing though. We are on a runaway train here. do we REALLY want to end up like Greece selling of our infrastructure and assets? All that BLM land? Our national parks? water rights? and on and on.... bridges, roads...

If we cut spending NOW, then WE get to decide what we fund, what is acceptable to cut, and what we cant stomach cutting or figure out a way to cut the costs of....

If we keep at this we will have the IMF dictating what we can keep. Do we really want to go there? Lets take the medicine now. We are on a fools course as it is. Some might say its to late to correct the situation anyway, and to some degree I know that is certainly true.... but we can make a softer landing. there is no doubt about that....

Its not about left or right. This is our future, our kids future. Our country.... Lets not end up like greece or worse...

Oh yeah this post isnt entirely directed at you sheikh.... just the beginning.

way closer vote than i expected as well

cut spending - plain and simple

need ideas ?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/ ... nding.html

unfortunately, the debt ceiling will be raised, out of control spending will continue and the top earners will carry the bears share of the tax burden

god bless america

Treetop wrote:Perhaps Im confused, but I see no need to raise the debt ceiling. If we stop spending more then we take in wont we be able to pay our debts????

why in the world should we continue to raise it?

Arent we essentially telling our creditors if we dont raise our self imposed debt limits that we will stop paying our debt? Thats rather insane....

Also all this talk about whether or not a debt ceiling is constitutional is silly. I read it. It seems not paying the debt is the unconstitutional part, NOT setting a self imposed limit to the amount of debt we will accept.....

Well, as I see it, this isn't a math problem. Real people, and quite a few, will suffer should the gov't default. Now, we can sit back and say "sucks to be them", but if there's a way we can avoid default, sparing millions of people a lot of pain, and subsequently cut down our spending (not just for awhile, but a real cultural shift in attitudes about how much we spend), signaling to our creditors that we're serious about tackling the deficits and the nat'l debt, we should do it. But I'm NOT advocating raising the ceiling AND continuing to spend recklessly.

I understand the above scenario is idealistic, and I don't expect politicians will suddenly become financially responsible, but if I were advising the president, that's what I'd say.

argent_pur wrote:
I understand the above scenario is idealistic, and I don't expect politicians will suddenly become financially responsible, but if I were advising the president, that's what I'd say.

I agree, thats what I want to see as well. But our representatives dont appear to work for us anymore. so I doubt it.

Treetop wrote:

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Drastically cut spending on everything! Drastically raise taxes on everyone! That will implode the economy faster than raising the debt ceiling. We are so freaking screwed!

Heres the thing though. We are on a runaway train here. do we REALLY want to end up like Greece selling of our infrastructure and assets? All that BLM land? Our national parks? water rights? and on and on.... bridges, roads...

If we cut spending NOW, then WE get to decide what we fund, what is acceptable to cut, and what we cant stomach cutting or figure out a way to cut the costs of....

If we keep at this we will have the IMF dictating what we can keep. Do we really want to go there? Lets take the medicine now. We are on a fools course as it is. Some might say its to late to correct the situation anyway, and to some degree I know that is certainly true.... but we can make a softer landing. there is no doubt about that....

Its not about left or right. This is our future, our kids future. Our country.... Lets not end up like greece or worse...

Oh yeah this post isnt entirely directed at you sheikh.... just the beginning.

I appreciate what you are saying, Treetop. I voted to cap the debt ceiling, too. We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. This is going to get really rough before it is all over. We are in a far off worse shape than Greece when you reckon the off balance sheet liabilities, like Social Security.

Big government is now about 50% of the economy. If you cut back big government, you directly kill part of the economy. I agree it has to be done. This isn't going to be a picnic in the park.

I will alter a little what I stated earlier: Call ALL your elected officials, Federal, State, Local, and chew them out. Enough of the political theater! Get an appropriations bill through the House and let Emperor Obama accept, or reject it! If he rejects it, it is time to shut this m'f'er down!

Ladies and gentlemen, the betrayal of our country and the destruction of our economy has been intentional and is nearly complete. The actions of the members of the Federal Reserve and their puppets in the three branches of the government were/are designed to lead the greatest country of the modern era into slavery. We can't think of the Fed or the presidency or Congress as just some amorphous entities that stumble along the best they can. They are composed of thinking, scheming individuals with a plan. If they had good intentions but have simply made some mistakes along the way, occasionally they would make mistakes in our favor. The US is now in such a weakened condition and our armies are spread so far and wide around the world that our reputation has received a mortal wound. Other countries that have long envied our position are now licking their chops. We'll see how many young men wearing blue helmets someday tread across our once free land.

The wizards behind the curtains are now so emboldened that they allow the corrupt press corps to reveal their identity. They believe that they have been successful in taking control of the US and most of the rest of the world. The solution, therefore, will not come from the ballot box.

The hubbub about the debt ceiling is just so much political theater intended to make us wring our hands and plead for our favorite brand of professional politicians to save us. Our apathy has allowed the elite to take over and enslave us. Slaves generally don't regain their freedom by sending letters to their masters:
Uh, Massa, sir, could I please go on and do what I wanna do fo' da rest of my life, please, Massa, sir?

That's why I say give us the chemo-therapy now, shock our system mightily with a default, and try to recover as quickly as possible.

I realize that some of you will snicker or roll your eyes at what I've written. I wish none of what I have written were true. Unfortunately, it's just human nature for man to want power and to become corrupted by that power. That's the very situation we find ourselves in now. May the Lord bless those of you who can't see it yet. As for me and my house: low profile and prepare for the worst.

Well the goodnews is we do not default.

What happens if we default, China gets screwed and backs away. The rest of the world does the same, we go third world.
What good is silver to the majority of people (you lose too.
All assests lose period.
Jobs will disappear faster than now.
When should we expect the rebuilding of the US?
Do we get new "leaders" after the default?

PolishPunisher wrote:The debt ceiling must be raised. The debt ceiling is not the problem. Too much spending and not enough tax revenue are. Not raising the debt ceiling is like throwing out your refrigerator if you are over weight. It doesn't solve the problem.

Raising the debt ceiling is like said overweight person buying a larger fridge. A larger fridge could be helpful, if used correctly. As it is, the fedgov would just fill the larger fridge with more fat.

Treetop wrote:

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Drastically cut spending on everything! Drastically raise taxes on everyone! That will implode the economy faster than raising the debt ceiling. We are so freaking screwed!

Heres the thing though. We are on a runaway train here. do we REALLY want to end up like Greece selling of our infrastructure and assets? All that BLM land? Our national parks? water rights? and on and on.... bridges, roads...

Well, We don't have the best military money can buy for nothing?? I'd keep their budget intact, to say the least. We need to get off the debt based monetery system and back on a sound debt free one. Only then can we repay the world with money that is worth getting!!!!

Mossy wrote:

PolishPunisher wrote:The debt ceiling must be raised. The debt ceiling is not the problem. Too much spending and not enough tax revenue are. Not raising the debt ceiling is like throwing out your refrigerator if you are over weight. It doesn't solve the problem.

Raising the debt ceiling is like said overweight person buying a larger fridge. A larger fridge could be helpful, if used correctly. As it is, the fedgov would just fill the larger fridge with more fat.

FANTASTIC analogy!