Doom and Gloom (and Boom?)

[beauanderos]

For all of you newbies, and lurkers, and others who are just plain naive and haven't had their eyes opened to what's comin down the turnpike... you probably think the few of us who post admonitary warnings of how bad things WILL (not might) get are loons, extremists, alarmists, nutjobs... whatever you want to call us. However... what have you got to lose by following our advice? Worst case scenario this will be like Y2K and nothing will happen inspite of dire expectations... except that your reward for having acted upon your Boy Scout impulses (Be Prepared) will position you to have developed wealth beyond your dreams when hyperinflation hits. That's not a debatable issue, hyperinflation WILL occur, IS occuring now but is disguised by obfuscation (damned lies) and misdirection, and the manipulations to keep the public unaware of the true value of REAL money... silver, gold, etc. Real inflation right now is only about 12%... but you can feel the pinch, can't you? Imagine 60 yo 80 percent a month. Most of us know the feeling of regret for "I KNEW I should have bought more, back then" and then sure enough a year later you realize how much bigger your stack would have been. But everyone has excuses. STOP PROCRASTINATING and stretch yourself to buy a little more silver while you can... or get your preps in order while the shelves still have goods on them. Peak Oil is just as real as the ominous advent of dollar devaluation, but the consequences will be much more severe. What happens if you can afford to buy supplies... because you were smart enough to stack metals... but there are NO supplies?

[Treetop]

I agree with every word. only to add that you cant eat metals. Hoarding food is good to, and if you get things you use and cycle it out, wont be a waste. but we need PRODUCERS

who wants to trade their hordes for food? you do? sweet move next to me!!!! I will keep you fed through the worst of times, and you just keep giving me your silver and gold.

so horde a pile of manure to. Get some seeds of the BEST adapted varieties for homestead use. something tha can be tricky for some of us, but it can be done. (store seeds in the freezer if you dont garden) get some good hand tools, stick them in the shed. Get some perennial stuff going like fruit trees, nuts, berries, wild greens (purslane, dandelions, plantain, pigsweed etc all nutrition powerhouses and grow themselves just manage them a bit and save seeds for whn you need it) lots of other really easy things to do also. to where without a lot of work you could get set up for food production.

that or move next to me, and Id be happy to take the PMs off your hands even if no one else is willing to trade, I will keep you fed.

[AGCoinHunter]

I agree with every word. only to add that you cant eat metals. Hoarding food is good to, and if you get things you use and cycle it out, wont be a waste. but we need PRODUCERS

who wants to trade their hordes for food? you do? sweet move next to me!!!! I will keep you fed through the worst of times, and you just keep giving me your silver and gold.

so horde a pile of manure to. Get some seeds of the BEST adapted varieties for homestead use. something tha can be tricky for some of us, but it can be done. (store seeds in the freezer if you dont garden) get some good hand tools, stick them in the shed. Get some perennial stuff going like fruit trees, nuts, berries, wild greens (purslane, dandelions, plantain, pigsweed etc all nutrition powerhouses and grow themselves just manage them a bit and save seeds for whn you need it) lots of other really easy things to do also. to where without a lot of work you could get set up for food production.

that or move next to me, and Id be happy to take the PMs off your hands even if no one else is willing to trade, I will keep you fed.

Dont forget one of the most important thing to hoard....lead. The roaving hoards of hungry will see your food production and will do anything to get their hands on it. You better be willing and ready to protect it.

[Treetop]

Well actually I cover all bases. Ive got a full ranged diet of wild foods and tree crops (treecrops having a small window of harvest) to go with my more conventional crops. Including wild grains, wild fruits few know of, and all types of things.... so any roving bands wouldnt even see crops, they would see "weeds" grasses and trees. I also have set up many offsite wild plantings.

I do of course have your standard fair as well.

as far as defense, i am armed. mainly for small game hunting. I honestly doubt Id defend my growing food. My stores of food are hidden in multiple spots. but defense is my only real concern. If it was up to me Id have 20-30 good hearted people to ride this through with.....

[camtender]

Here is the best explanation I have heard on the subject, courtesy of FOFOA.

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/04/defla ... ation.html

"It is a comment that explains the old truism, "you can't eat your gold." That's right, gold is not at its highest and best use being spent (circulated) as a currency during a hunger crisis. Instead, if you are one with PLENTY of net worth, gold is the very best way to shuttle your wealth THROUGH a crisis to the other side. If you are forced to deploy this wealth for food during a crisis, then you apparently planned poorly."

[68Camaro]

Here is the best explanation I have heard on the subject, courtesy of FOFOA.

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/04/defla ... ation.html

"It is a comment that explains the old truism, "you can't eat your gold." That's right, gold is not at its highest and best use being spent (circulated) as a currency during a hunger crisis. Instead, if you are one with PLENTY of net worth, gold is the very best way to shuttle your wealth THROUGH a crisis to the other side. If you are forced to deploy this wealth for food during a crisis, then you apparently planned poorly."

Excellent point...

[Mossy]

"Can't eat gold"? Well, "Can't drink flour", "Can't eat bleach", "Shooten with water don't do much good", what else?

Diversify.

/When/ hyper inflation hits, grocers are going to have to move their "faith and credence" money as fast as possible to avoid falling behind. Most people think that means that grocers cannot afford to take metals. I think they will not be able to afford to refuse. Metal will go up in value, right alongside the cost of food, so they have more slack in picking the best buy or waiting for a crop to become available.

[Treetop]

"If you are forced to deploy this wealth for food during a crisis, then you apparently planned poorly"

and stores of food are great but what EXACTLY do we face? I expect generational issues as we both have the dollar crash and related issues, political turmoils, slow recalculating and restructuring to follow. With who knows what variations in between. So just like you wouldnt invest all your wealth in one thing dont rely on food only from storage. what if we face a stagnant economy and nflated prices? people being slow to adapt... food stores despite our best efforts could go bad, or be stolen, or get damaged somehow.

Lots of low labor ways to get atleast some food growing and be prepped to do it to a higher degree if situations call for it. But get those trees in now!!! have kids? what better to leave them then an orchard. and take the time to pick the best varieties if your buying trees, things resistant to local disease. might limit your choices but its wise. by the way it takes a bit longer and it limits you to certain fruits but you can go from seed to save cash. things like cherries and plums and peaches all grow well from seed. grapes are easy to deal with if you learn some basics and there are cultivars for about anyone, cheap to get a couple lcally adapted vines and spread it from cuttings... Could go on but I already diverted the thread...

[Mossy]

If it was up to me Id have 20-30 good hearted people to ride this through with.....

Yup. Allies are valuable.

Side note: the Acai berry is also called "wolf berry", and is found in many landscape plantings across the US. Few people seem to know that the berry they are paying outrageous prices for in the health food store, is probably growing under their bedroom window.

[camtender]

"If you are forced to deploy this wealth for food during a crisis, then you apparently planned poorly"

and stores of food are great but what EXACTLY do we face?

No one on the face of the Earth knows this (earthquake, nuclear blast, platypus flu or whatever), anyone that says they know what is going to happen is lacking credibility.

However, I suspect that if you are an objective person and can read history, you can use your discernment to see what history has to say about such situations we are in right now and correlate past historical performance as one of the best indicators of the future.

Also, things change. If someone was to invest in locations for bread lines, well, they did not take into consideration that modern payment technologies can feed people through an automated system. But the fundamental event is the same, a lot of people need to be feed daily by our government right now.

One of the bigger things to consider is if you are wealthy in relationships or things. If you don't have many friends, I highly suggest you prepare more than someone with bank of goodwill with others.

[shinnosuke]

With the Feds constantly proposing cheery ideas like death panels and reduced Medicare, better work on your medical supplies storage and home remedies. I also want to recommend to everyone that smokes to stop as soon as possible. You might be tempted to give away an AGE just to hold a Marlboro between your thumb and index finger when the economy crumbles.

The unrest that goes along with empty store shelves is frequently mentioned here. I wrote about blue helmets in another thread. If the president/king of America asked for them, I think we would see the UN troops under the pretext of restoring order (i.e., rounding up those in need of re-education).

[jerry278]

Actually guys, you CAN EAT GOLD.

Heres an article: http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Business- ... id=3286892

and I quote: "It is reported that the ancient Egyptians had discovered that by eating powdered gold one could become immortal."

Probably good to diversify though

[NHsorter]

You can drink it too! Goldschlager.

[neilgin1]

With the Feds constantly proposing cheery ideas like death panels and reduced Medicare, better work on your medical supplies storage and home remedies. I also want to recommend to everyone that smokes to stop as soon as possible. You might be tempted to give away an AGE just to hold a Marlboro between your thumb and index finger when the economy crumbles.

The unrest that goes along with empty store shelves is frequently mentioned here. I wrote about blue helmets in another thread. If the president/king of America asked for them, I think we would see the UN troops under the pretext of restoring order (i.e., rounding up those in need of re-education).

oh man! this is one of those discussions i want to get knee deep into so bad, but early on, in my adult life, though i was still a teen, the concept of OPSEC, operational security, was poured into my very veins, that imperative to restrain oneself from giving any info to any adversary, real or potential, that could help them to harm your group, or unit...you know what i mean.

i agree with everything written in this thread....everything. i especially liked what a brother said about not knowing PRECISELY how the maelstrom will go down, and anybody that says they know, doesnt. Could be "Road Warrior"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBrAh3Oy ... re=related), or "Red Dawn"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_I4WgBfETc)...or maybe the most frightening prospect of all, "I am Legend"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DcrHyJ5 ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tK0e4DT8uE )...that film really GOT me, i identified with Will's character in that, and it just GOT me...could be "The Book of Eli"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAMUv22y1og)..point being, God only knows....truely.

i'm a Jew, my daddy is Gentile, but my mother Jewish, and i might be one of the few Jews you know who believes Jesus is The Messiah, (and no, i dont "belong" to "Jews for Jesus"...aint a joiner) and i was raised in the synagogue from age 7. i did not have to dragged there like some of the poor catholic kids i knew, who had religion and guilt shoved down their throats, i went eagerily, because to me, it was something very real and very special, Yahweh was Real and special to me, i knew the same blood that flowed thru King David's veins flowed thru mine, Hebrew School on Tuesdays, Torah school on Sundays, and i loved it.

at this time, RIGHT after the 6 day war, about 1969, the Holocaust was still a raw memory, vivid and potent, many people, especially grandparents had direct family murdered in Europe, so they showed us a 28 minute French documentary, entitled "Night and Fog", it was black and white, like a dimly remembered nightmare, but it changed me forever, it was like a diamond shot thru my forehead. after it was over i sat there, all of nine years old, and thought , "this is how they do it", and i vowed i will be "Israeli", "i will be like King David"...i will never sit still and allow anyone to just round me up like so much sheep and lead me to cattle cars for the slaughter, so i changed, i began to seek learning that made me different from my American Jewish male counterparts and more like an Israeli Jew....do you get my drift? i was the youngest graduate from the defense language Institute in Korean, after having joined the Navy at 17, school just bored me, did my service...almost immigrated to Israel, but the wild summer after service, partying on the beach, chasing my younger sisters girlfriends, i realized i was TOO American, and besides, i had already "fallen" onto the trading floor, and that had me hooked.

my whole point is , at nine years old, in that 28 minutes, my world view was shaped, and i never looked back. I KNEW in that 28 minutes, that there is evil, dark things and people in the world , and that there is good, and there is Light, and i made the vow, that i will always be a Son of Light. But sometimes to be a Son of Light, you have to walk in the strength you are given, and there will times of suffering, but you must never give way to fear, because fear is the food of the evil in this world.

so brethern, walk in the strength you are given, show mercy and never give evil the food it craves, which is fear.

forgive me for writing heavy, it was what God laid on my heart, neil

[neilgin1]

ps to Shinn-san...i wanted to write about the "blue helmets", but got led in other directions. simply put, they try that stuff here....it'll be the last mistake they ever make.

[Treetop]

i dont believe in opsec. Not over the types of things discussed here anyway, certain details sure...... Those that may you do harm over something said here (the nameless ones hehe) already know your a PM hoarder, your armed, you stock food, your interested in surviving etc etc..... Why? because I know all those things about you to, as does anyone who has read this thread...

so laying out a by about HOW your setting up for food production wont change that nor will not laying out those plans, imho. As you said there is light and dark out there, dont be afraid to shine. and us "forerunners" must light the way for those to follow as I see it. So opsec might be needed for a few things, but not this as I see it. least of all this actually.....

[Mossy]

(Ha. "Eat drink gold", smart alecks.)

Blue helmets would be under UN command, sure, but the people come from /some/ where. Troops from most countries would be killed quickly. British, Australian, and Canadian troops would survive longer, but only if they behaved.

That's assuming we keep the internet free so we can fight gun control.

Specifics for a crash? Some form of third world cess pit, I'm thinking.

[neilgin1]

i dont believe in opsec. Not over the types of things discussed here anyway, certain details sure...... Those that may you do harm over something said here (the nameless ones hehe) already know your a PM hoarder, your armed, you stock food, your interested in surviving etc etc..... Why? because I know all those things about you to, as does anyone who has read this thread...

so laying out a by about HOW your setting up for food production wont change that nor will not laying out those plans, imho. As you said there is light and dark out there, dont be afraid to shine. and us "forerunners" must light the way for those to follow as I see it. So opsec might be needed for a few things, but not this as I see it. least of all this actually.....

tree, you speak wise words.....you're right. my seeming "caution" is without merit....to be a "forerunner" is the better path, thanks man, neil

[NHsorter]

So if we are all right and big time inflation is on our doorstep, what are the best actions to be taking? I know hoarding metals and food, and buying/establishing farmland. In addition to that, are there any suggestions for investments? Lately I have been playing the big bounces in the Dow with the relatively small amount of investment money that I have. Is it a good idea to borrow as much money as possible at a long term fixed rate while rates are still low? I have about 20years left on my mortgage. I was considering doing a refi to a 15 year loan in order to save bottom line FRN's. But lately I am thinking that I should take as much cash out as I can and get a 30 year loan instead. When the inflation ramps up, it'll make my payments seem like nothing. Does this make any sense? If I were to take cash out, I would not want to just hold it as cash though, so what would I convert it into? Solar panels? I don't think I want to hold too high a % of PM's and nothing else.

I always had this doom & gloom stuff in the back of my mind a little. How can you not if you have even a little bit of exposure to history and current events? But I do have to say that you guys are worrying me. I was much happier before - blissfully ignorant even.

[68Camaro]

Good questions... No time now to write some of my opinions, but I have some. Others will chime in, I'm sure. Much of this has been discussed in past posts, though updates are always good to account for changing times. There are no sure answers, but there are approaches to covering different possible future paths.

[Know Common Cents]

I've taken this one step forward. Last week, I spoke to the owner of a local gas station. He's of Indian or Pakistani heritage and has a good understanding of the importance of owning silver.

I now have a verbal promise (and a handshake) that he'll sell gas to me in the event he has product (despite the SHTF in some big way) if I pay in US 90% silver or ASEs.

He said I wasn't the first person to ask him about this. Makes me wonder if it was one of my neighbors. Get to know those who can help you before you need them in a desparate situation. Time well spent for sure.

[neilgin1]

I've taken this one step forward. Last week, I spoke to the owner of a local gas station. He's of Indian or Pakistani heritage and has a good understanding of the importance of owning silver.

I now have a verbal promise (and a handshake) that he'll sell gas to me in the event he has product (despite the SHTF in some big way) if I pay in US 90% silver or ASEs.

He said I wasn't the first person to ask him about this. Makes me wonder if it was one of my neighbors. Get to know those who can help you before you need them in a desparate situation. Time well spent for sure.

that was a really smart move to put in place. imo, the best gas can to get, are refurbished "Jerry Cans", the German 5 gallon can. I was able to get 4 for a $100, best money i ever spent...these things can take a beating, one actually has the year 1944 stamped on it, and i thought if this bad boy made it thru our air onslaught in 44-45, its good to go.

wise move CC, neil

[beauanderos]

I've taken this one step forward. Last week, I spoke to the owner of a local gas station. He's of Indian or Pakistani heritage and has a good understanding of the importance of owning silver.

I now have a verbal promise (and a handshake) that he'll sell gas to me in the event he has product (despite the SHTF in some big way) if I pay in US 90% silver or ASEs.

He said I wasn't the first person to ask him about this. Makes me wonder if it was one of my neighbors. Get to know those who can help you before you need them in a desparate situation. Time well spent for sure.

I can envision a gas station with multiple islands with a LONG line... and a very short one. The short one would be the one accepting silver for fill-ups, the increasingly longer line would be fiat dropping like a stone. Would be a grand opportunity for some enterprising entrepreneur to go window to window in the long line selling silver dimes for increasing amounts of fiat, if they had a mind to do so.

[IdahoCopper]

I know there are more than 500 "good places" for a redoubt. It may be a good idea for people here to suggest particular places, and why they suggest them. As for me, I'm in a good place, Twin Falls, Idaho.

This region sits on the Snake River Aquafier. That is an underground body of water the size of Lake Erie. Most of the power in this area is hydroelectric, off the Snake River. My well is 150 feet deep.

This area has a lot more food than people.

Because of plentiful water from the Snake and the aquafier, this area is one of the most productive agricultural regions in the world. The large-acre farmers grow sugar beet, potato, corn, wheat, alfalfa, bean, and onion. There are a lot of dairy farms, meat cattle, and buffalo being raised.

There are several sugar factories, cheese factories, and potato processors (french fries, chips, etc.)

There are old silver mining areas in the mountains about 100 miles away.

There are only two cities within one tank of gas, Boise and Salt Lake City.

About 25% of the locals are Mormon, and they are prepped for 1 to 2 years.

As for Twin Falls itself, the town is about 40,000, but it is the hub for the local region of about 150,000. There is a mall with all the usual stores, most of the fast-food places and several national chain restaurants. We just opened a new hospital a few months ago, and the College of Southern Idaho is here.

I don't need to run anywhere, this is a good place. If the group can gin up the capital to buy 160 acres or more, I'm happy to help make it happen.

[beauanderos]

I've heard MANY good things about the Idaho region, the durability and survival readiness of it's citizens, etc. My only concern would be the BOOM part of the header, ie Yellowstone. If you place any credence in the History Channel specials, that park is just a brewing cauldron waiting to spew. Of course, fear-mongering makes for good television specials, Idaho is upwind, and the lifespan of man is but a smidgeon of a geologic epoch during which, at any time, Yellowstone could turn to molten popcorn... in which case we'd most likely all be eventual toast anyway, not just those located on it's periphery. I wonder why some geothermal group hasn't tapped all that energy and perhaps, simultaneously, diminish the chance of the kettle boiling over?