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besides our PM's...gold and silver, and our BM coin's , coppers and nickels, what do you have this very second, that you believe is "currency" in a grid down enviroment, and how much would you want for it in silver, copper or nickel?

i'll be a start buyer, and anyone else can chime in to "buy" too....or sell for that matter?

so here goes, my shopping list, i want one full cord of firewood, hardwood

one roll of barbed wire.

a five gallon can of gasoline

a carton of cigarettes.

that should do for now...what you need for those?

The cigarettes one should be moved up the list. I don't smoke, but those that do already pay a super high premium for the privilege.

For smokers they are more valuable than gold. (And smokers that have math skills can equate their smoking to quite a bit of gold over time!)

Neat thread....

the answers would of course depend on the "market" of the time period. what exactly caused us to be trading in gold for instance. are we in ww3? did the economy crash and its the depressionx2 with a bunch of folks scrambling to garden who never had a dirty finger? ae cities on lockdown, or rare their riots in DC? All those will change things....

for instance.....

If its just a major depression but society hasnt ripped apart at the seams, then Id say anywhere from 1/10-1/4 ounce of gold would probably cover that. (I assume silver will catch up to gold considerably by then, so perhaps 2-5 ounces of silver)

However if people are huddled in their homes and there are mobs of hungry clashing with legal mobs in the streets then the price could be much much steeper.

barrytrot wrote:The cigarettes one should be moved up the list. I don't smoke, but those that do already pay a super high premium for the privilege.

For smokers they are more valuable than gold. (And smokers that have math skills can equate their smoking to quite a bit of gold over time!)

well Barry, my non smoking individualist beloved brother, in this hypothetical exercise, what you got to sell?...now remember, i ALREADY got tobacco...you dont 'know' that.....but i do, so what you got?

by the way, i'm having BIG FUN watching these banksters and other such fools, pressing down on the silver...making me laugh.

Treetop wrote:Neat thread....

the answers would of course depend on the "market" of the time period. what exactly caused us to be trading in gold for instance. are we in ww3? did the economy crash and its the depressionx2 with a bunch of folks scrambling to garden who never had a dirty finger? ae cities on lockdown, or rare their riots in DC? All those will change things....

for instance.....

If its just a major depression but society hasnt ripped apart at the seams, then Id say anywhere from 1/10-1/4 ounce of gold would probably cover that. (I assume silver will catch up to gold considerably by then, so perhaps 2-5 ounces of silver)

However if people are huddled in their homes and there are mobs of hungry clashing with legal mobs in the streets then the price could be much much steeper.

excellent point Tree, i been remiss, in any readiness exercise, refered to as a REDEX, i should have detailed the situational backdrop....i'm sober as a church mouse btw, but a bit giddy, as i took an L-Tyrosine tablet, (natural supplement to combat lethargy) warshing it down with straight DEW...here's the sit, post hyperinflation, post 5 day bank holiday, which led to mass civil unrest, then martial law in the cities. The new "dollar" is 100 of the "old" dollars (current FRN)

how that?

Treetop wrote:Neat thread....

If its just a major depression but society hasnt ripped apart at the seams, then Id say anywhere from 1/10-1/4 ounce of gold would probably cover that. (I assume silver will catch up to gold considerably by then, so perhaps 2-5 ounces of silver)

However if people are huddled in their homes and there are mobs of hungry clashing with legal mobs in the streets then the price could be much much steeper.

forgive my ignorance Tree, but what d'ya mean about the gold and silver?.....if i'm trading, i would do 5 to 1 gold to silver...and thats me being nice, i;d rather see a 10 gold (1/10th a zee) than a whole gold......so whats gonna cost me a 10-to a 25 gold?...the firewood?...

for instance, i'd give you 2 silver quarters, or 5 silver dimes for a cord of firewood.....now if YOU want a cord of my wood, i need either an ASE, or 5 silver quarters. trade?

In that situation to me, currency is anything I think I can extract more value from in the next transaction/short term, that I have ample supplies of or am able to produce myself.

I do not think smokes would be the "gold" everyone thinks it will. At least not where Ilive. I can pass probably 100 acres of tobacco plants on my way to town. If I were a "trader" on such a situation, I would have my own plants, and handcrank tobacco shredder, and would roll my own cigs and cigars to sell/trade. Many people will grow/roll their own. I rolled mine for over 20 years before I stopped.


I've seen firewood go for 80 a rick which works out to 160 a cord in town. You can get it for half that rural where we are. Or a set of the right rims/car parts/atv parts.

I come from a rural economically depressed area. Better than 40% unemployment. I see a lot of horse trading now. Guns trade good. Chains. Car parts. Power tools. Jewelry. "Old Money". Bullion. Fencing.

I currently have a totaled vehicle. I'm stripping the core items (radiator, alternator, starter, converter etc) then am going to trade it for a riding mower/tractor I need to get.

What's my currency in that situation? Anything I curently have but do not need compared to how bad I want/need or can profit off what you have up to and including labor as long as opsec is not violated. Or anything thatyou have, that I can deal you out of.

other than that, back to pms, copper, nickel.

neilgin1 wrote:

Treetop wrote:Neat thread....

If its just a major depression but society hasnt ripped apart at the seams, then Id say anywhere from 1/10-1/4 ounce of gold would probably cover that. (I assume silver will catch up to gold considerably by then, so perhaps 2-5 ounces of silver)

However if people are huddled in their homes and there are mobs of hungry clashing with legal mobs in the streets then the price could be much much steeper.

forgive my ignorance Tree, but what d'ya mean about the gold and silver?.....if i'm trading, i would do 5 to 1 gold to silver...and thats me being nice, i;d rather see a 10 gold (1/10th a zee) than a whole gold......so whats gonna cost me a 10-to a 25 gold?...the firewood?...

for instance, i'd give you 2 silver quarters, or 5 silver dimes for a cord of firewood.....now if YOU want a cord of my wood, i need either an ASE, or 5 silver quarters. trade?

I reread the top part, I dont really understand it.

As for 2 silver quarters for a cord of fire wood? no deal. In the situation your describing the price is steep. I want atleast a roll of silver ounces. (20oz.) or $30 face of 90%. spot price? whats that mean???? no one will care at that point and silver will be a chunk of metal.

Wait you also have a dozen eggs? and 2 dozen apples? deal my friend!!!

Kurr wrote:In that situation to me, currency is anything I think I can extract more value from in the next transaction/short term, that I have ample supplies of or am able to produce myself.

wise words indeed.

I do not think smokes would be the "gold" everyone thinks it will. At least not where Ilive. I can pass probably 100 acres of tobacco plants on my way to town. If I were a "trader" on such a situation, I would have my own plants, and handcrank tobacco shredder, and would roll my own cigs and cigars to sell/trade. Many people will grow/roll their own. I rolled mine for over 20 years before I stopped.

used to be a lot of tobacco grown up here...not so now...glad you stopped, you're a better man than me.

I've seen firewood go for 80 a rick which works out to 160 a cord in town. You can get it for half that rural where we are. Or a set of the right rims/car parts/atv parts.

same price here.

I come from a rural economically depressed area. Better than 40% unemployment. I see a lot of horse trading now. Guns trade good. Chains. Car parts. Power tools. Jewelry. "Old Money". Bullion. Fencing.

we got it a bit better....lots of dairy, corn and beans...which fetch big money right now...so there's money flowing, the CU is strong here.

What's my currency in that situation? Anything I curently have but do not need compared to how bad I want/need or can profit off what you have up to and including labor as long as opsec is not violated. Or anything thatyou have, that I can deal you out of.

other than that, back to pms, copper, nickel.

really good post....dont forget intoxicants...."that i can deal you out of"....better wake up early friend..teasing ya...be blessed, neil

Treetop wrote:
I reread the top part, I dont really understand it.

As for 2 silver quarters for a cord of fire wood? no deal. In the situation your describing the price is steep. I want atleast a roll of silver ounces. (20oz.) or $30 face of 90%. spot price? whats that mean???? no one will care at that point and silver will be a chunk of metal.

Wait you also have a dozen eggs? and 2 dozen apples? deal my friend!!!

lets think about this, 2 silver quarters got at least a third an ounce of silver, right? at this point, in the REDEX, i'm valuating silver, maybe now its a BLACK MARKET item as the gummit dont want people trading in silver, i valuate silver at $300 an ounce..three hundred OLD dollars, now that they did a 100 to 1 switch to NEW dollars......and i have more than enough firewood....see how it works?.....its what you DONT have, thats determines the price......(i'm not trying to be nasty) i got firewood, i got chickens, i got apples....real life....and you got silver, and i assume you got firewood, coz you're trying to trade with me.....but 20 .999 oz's for a cord of firewood?......thats the price i pay for 5 acres of woodlot, or bottom land for pasture....this is a taste for the both of us, how this thing walks itself out...and what we need NOW.......nice come back Tree, neil

ps....in this sit, you got to have something REALLY BIG AND GOOD, to have me part with a roll of ASE'S

i pay an old nickel for a dozen eggs...or 10 coppers.

Beer is my currency.

SHTF.....I will dish out a Walker per cold one.

Rodebaugh wrote:Beer is my currency.

SHTF.....I will dish out a Walker per cold one.

done.

(might be lukewarm, but methinks thou wouldnst complain.)

I dont think a copper penny will ever buy an egg, in such a situation. I doubt 99 percent would even want a copper penny.

even in a depression times 2 situation i dont think nickels and copper pennies will be buying eggs anywhere close to those prices. many folks will be at starvations door, struggling to get by in a depression time 2 situation..... In a cities are on fire situation? the eggs ARE the gold, the PMs and BMs are hunks of metal and hope for the future......

Treetop wrote:I dont think a copper penny will ever buy an egg, in such a situation. I doubt 99 percent would even want a copper penny.

even in a depression times 2 situation i dont think nickels and copper pennies will be buying eggs anywhere close to those prices. many folks will be at starvations door, struggling to get by in a depression time 2 situation..... In a cities are on fire situation? the eggs ARE the gold, the PMs and BMs are hunks of metal and hope for the future......

On the other hand, somewhere there has to be a family or an association of families that has prepared a place in the country with lots of layers. They have eggs coming out the wazoo and would like to sell a few dozen a day for some cold, hard cash to buy other essentials. They'd take some pennies, don't you think?

shinnosuke wrote:

Treetop wrote:I dont think a copper penny will ever buy an egg, in such a situation. I doubt 99 percent would even want a copper penny.

even in a depression times 2 situation i dont think nickels and copper pennies will be buying eggs anywhere close to those prices. many folks will be at starvations door, struggling to get by in a depression time 2 situation..... In a cities are on fire situation? the eggs ARE the gold, the PMs and BMs are hunks of metal and hope for the future......

On the other hand, somewhere there has to be a family or an association of families that has prepared a place in the country with lots of layers. They have eggs coming out the wazoo and would like to sell a few dozen a day for some cold, hard cash to buy other essentials. They'd take some pennies, don't you think?

probably, but Im betting they would want more then 10 per dozen....

Treetop wrote:

shinnosuke wrote:

Treetop wrote:I dont think a copper penny will ever buy an egg, in such a situation. I doubt 99 percent would even want a copper penny.

even in a depression times 2 situation i dont think nickels and copper pennies will be buying eggs anywhere close to those prices. many folks will be at starvations door, struggling to get by in a depression time 2 situation..... In a cities are on fire situation? the eggs ARE the gold, the PMs and BMs are hunks of metal and hope for the future......

On the other hand, somewhere there has to be a family or an association of families that has prepared a place in the country with lots of layers. They have eggs coming out the wazoo and would like to sell a few dozen a day for some cold, hard cash to buy other essentials. They'd take some pennies, don't you think?

probably, but Im betting they would want more then 10 per dozen....

sure, there would be an period of price discovery followed by letting the roosters get busy to create more layers.

Rodebaugh wrote:Beer is my currency.

SHTF.....I will dish out a Walker per cold one.

Good thing I'll have some homebrew

Throw some hops in the vegetable garden and find a way to make your own yeast lol

Cases of citrus fruit, or juice, available for trade (oranges, grapefruit, tangerines, lemons, limes). Don't need your firewood, dude. Barely need any heat except for a few of the colder nights. What I need for that citrus is a "cord" of air conditioning!

68Camaro wrote:Cases of citrus fruit, or juice, available for trade (oranges, grapefruit, tangerines, lemons, limes). Don't need your firewood, dude. Barely need any heat except for a few of the colder nights. What I need for that citrus is a "cord" of air conditioning!

Oakair wrote:

Rodebaugh wrote:Beer is my currency.

SHTF.....I will dish out a Walker per cold one.

Good thing I'll have some homebrew

Throw some hops in the vegetable garden and find a way to make your own yeast lol

Hops?!?...how about poppies? them there tallybans taught me something, and if they can do it, why cant i?...make cough syrup and nervous tonic, be a real high value trade....besides, IF i was to make some kind of sipping likker, i'd rather get me some dent corn, and brew up some white...plenty of corn around here, and white would trade better than beer, less hassle and more compact.

btw, and i'm you know this, but "white" is corn liquor.

So after talking to many people over the years from depressed countries here are a few items that were on the hit parade.
1. Toilet paper
2. Romantic novels.
3. Booze

68Camaro wrote:Cases of citrus fruit, or juice, available for trade (oranges, grapefruit, tangerines, lemons, limes). Don't need your firewood, dude. Barely need any heat except for a few of the colder nights. What I need for that citrus is a "cord" of air conditioning!

THAT i would do for my own stash, but you're too darn FAR. heck, i wont go south of the Ohio river, much less the Mason-Dixon line, (no offense to my southern brothers)....i dont even go out of the county line now, but you did touch on something important, Vitamin C....serious......scurvy, rickets, night blindness, all caused by C defiency...but there's other ways around that for a zone 4b, like here, ungions, small berries, apples, pills...but citrus would be missed, so would bananas, great for potassium, both of those citrus and bananas are zone 8 and 9's.

know what 68? you know what a good business would be to explore?....how to make the run down the Mississipi River from up north, to NOLA, and buy tropical goods, bring them back up north, coffee, citrus, maybe bananas, tobacco, and cotton, stuff that doesnt grow up here...coffee would be HUGE...grid down, that could be a very profitable business, provided you had the right river runner.

just for reference neil, you might plant some roses for "rosehips" to get vitamin c. Besides the pills the other things you listed will loose their vitamin c, depending on how you preserve them. roses and rosehips are real easy to deal with. they grow themselves, and the hips are good in tea.

Treetop wrote:I dont think a copper penny will ever buy an egg, in such a situation. I doubt 99 percent would even want a copper penny.

even in a depression times 2 situation i dont think nickels and copper pennies will be buying eggs anywhere close to those prices. many folks will be at starvations door, struggling to get by in a depression time 2 situation..... In a cities are on fire situation? the eggs ARE the gold, the PMs and BMs are hunks of metal and hope for the future......

Tree, been thinking hard about what you wrote. i'm sure you know poultry culture, eggs dont keep, and if you have a big enough flock, (which is a nightmare, i personally cant stand those lil proto-dinosaurs)...you a LOT of eggs, and you can either eat them, bake them (bread) or let them hatch out...so up here, there will be a surplus.

as to the copper penny and nickel Nickel...thats the beauty of coins...its hard to do pure barter to barter, and these two coins, seemingly lowly coins will hold value, because they are portable trade units, with a known metallic value. one of things i read from FerFAL in Argetina, is that once the crisis hit, coins just dissappered....gone...hoarded...and maybe..traded?

that will be the interesting part, the valuations, and i intend on bidding low and selling high...there will be cooperative ventures, just in my lil universe, i made good friends with a fellow, and we're going to build a modest livestock barn up here, he has a great wealth of knowledge, i have the will and the land, we get along really good, so we're fixing to do that....no money involved, just shares between the two of us. things;ll work like that...i'll fill you in, once we get rolling, its just a modest venture to provide both our families with protein...surplus?...thats the bonus.