Realcent.org

I got into a little YT squabble over the relative merits of gold in comparison to land, specifically in SHTF situation. I'll repost it here because I want to see what people think either way. "Opponent" in italics:

Actually precious metals in an oh [shucks] situation are a suboptimal choice for an investment. Land is by far the best investment for the oh [shucks] situation, but precious metals so run a damn fine second fiddle.

The problem with land is that it is stuck all in one place and you can't sell little pieces at a time.

And the problem with precious metals is that they have no intrinsic value. Land on the other hand can grow food.

If there isn't a flood, or a drought, or high property taxes, or insects, or radiation, or a bad crop, and the government doesn't zone against farming, and you stay healthy enough to work the land, and you have farm equipment, and there is a market for your food. Gold on the other hand can be taken n spent anywhere. In Zimbabwe, for example, owning land didn't help because the communist government just took it! But a pocket of gold bought plenty of food on the black market

And what happens when no1 accepts gold?

Well that would be a valid point if it had ever happened before in the last 6,000 years.

Oh, you mean how gold is not legal tender now?

What do legal tender laws have to do with gold? It can be used as money and in contracts legally. Or do you not understand what legal tender means?

ok dude, you know what, yes, everyone everywhere should buy nothing but golds because everything else is worthless in comparison to gold, nevermind that every critique of land holds true for gold also, plus you can't eat gold nor can you grow food on gold. No, land is a far worse investment than gold.

Don't miss my point, there are several farms in my family and they would be extremely useful in SHTF situation. But there are many dynamics in a SHTF situation that you have to allow for. One of the most important is that your land is immovable and will be illiquid, so if it is in the wrong place at the wrong time you are screwed. Sometimes in SHTF, you won't have 7-12 months to wait until next harvest. You need 250k+ to buy a farm, but only $170 to buy 1/10th ounce of gold.

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/convo ... for now

Why not have both? A few lead dispensers would also be very handy!

The "you can not eat gold" crowd never ceases to baffle me with their stupidity. No, you can not eat gold, but guess what. Ammo make a lousy bandage, it's tough to propel beans or rice fast enough to disable an intruder, bandages are pretty hard to digest, etc. It's about a balanced approach and plan.

Given the choice between gold and land I'll take the gold. It would be alot tougher for the government or someone else to confiscate gold from me than land. They would have to find the gold first whereas it is tough to hide land.

I have my gold. Now I want my land. Seems like the natural progression (or visa-versa).

silverflake wrote:I have my gold. Now I want my land. Seems like the natural progression (or visa-versa).

I second that. I have a little gold, and now I want land. I have thought that land is probably the only thing I would be willing to trade gold or silver for right now.

As if we cannot use half our assets to acquire land and half to acquire gold?

That's not a good split, though. "Diversify", and not just gold/land.

Hawkeye and silverflake, i really am sorry i dont know you boys WELL, coz i know several choices pieces. i DONT say that to tease or be mean, its just the internet, and you'll admit it too, we really gotta careful. But can i give you this, look for water, wood, soil, a killing winter, and a coherent country seat 10-20 miles away, with a county pop density of 30 people or less per sq mile, imho, those are good requirements and marker sticks......AND you use the gold for land, and the extra gold for silver, thats just me.

Mossy wrote:As if we cannot use half our assets to acquire land and half to acquire gold?

That's not a good split, though. "Diversify", and not just gold/land.

true, but one has to start out at A, before going to B, and the land will tell you what you need in that B, C, D, E frame. these prepper sites are great, but half the stuff offered for sale isnt of PRIME importance, the land will tell you the need.

Just mention two words and you'll shut his pie hole: "Eminent Domian".

You can always hide gold, you cannot hide land. Land/real estate is never really yours anyway... the "owner" simply rents it from the government. Just stop paying the taxes on a piece of property or a house and see what happens.

A different way to look at this argument at this point in time.... I say they each have an equal value. It simply depends on the overall situation of the individual. A 1000 acres of land in ANY situation wouldn't do you very much good if it was... say... 2K miles away. Anyhow... as far as what to buy now... I say "buy low... sell high". Gold is at its record heights and land is at it's record lows. If I had a chunk of gold right now... I'd sell it for land! Again... I say they have equal value in a SHTF situation so take that aspect out. Ultimately... their usefulness independent of each other is based on your plans and ability to use them when needed!

neilgin1 wrote:Hawkeye and silverflake, i really am sorry i dont know you boys WELL, coz i know several choices pieces. i DONT say that to tease or be mean, its just the internet, and you'll admit it too, we really gotta careful. But can i give you this, look for water, wood, soil, a killing winter, and a coherent country seat 10-20 miles away, with a county pop density of 30 people or less per sq mile, imho, those are good requirements and marker sticks......AND you use the gold for land, and the extra gold for silver, thats just me.

Some people with land like that were next to a National Park or National Forest. The feds "found" low grade pot growing wild on the land, seized the land as pot farms, and added them to the federal land.

Need to be careful of where you are.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Just mention two words and you'll shut his pie hole: "Eminent Domian".

You can always hide gold, you cannot hide land. Land/real estate is never really yours anyway... the "owner" simply rents it from the government. Just stop paying the taxes on a piece of property or a house and see what happens.

Thats why you pay your taxes, doing everything decently and in order, and bid time. The landlord might slip and fall on the icy street and break his neck.

Mossy wrote:

neilgin1 wrote:Hawkeye and silverflake, i really am sorry i dont know you boys WELL, coz i know several choices pieces. i DONT say that to tease or be mean, its just the internet, and you'll admit it too, we really gotta careful. But can i give you this, look for water, wood, soil, a killing winter, and a coherent country seat 10-20 miles away, with a county pop density of 30 people or less per sq mile, imho, those are good requirements and marker sticks......AND you use the gold for land, and the extra gold for silver, thats just me.

Some people with land like that were next to a National Park or National Forest. The feds "found" low grade pot growing wild on the land, seized the land as pot farms, and added them to the federal land.

Need to be careful of where you are.

always....shoot, you need to be careful of everything.

neilgin1 wrote:always....shoot, you need to be careful of everything.

scrapman1077 wrote:Why not have both? A few lead dispensers would also be very handy!

i have both and am happy with both

scrapman1077 wrote:Why not have both? A few lead dispensers would also be very handy!

About sums up my feelings as well.

I own 93 acres of land and will not part with it. Now I am working on the shiny stuff.

neilgin1 wrote:Hawkeye and silverflake, i really am sorry i dont know you boys WELL, coz i know several choices pieces. i DONT say that to tease or be mean, its just the internet, and you'll admit it too, we really gotta careful. But can i give you this, look for water, wood, soil, a killing winter, and a coherent country seat 10-20 miles away, with a county pop density of 30 people or less per sq mile, imho, those are good requirements and marker sticks......AND you use the gold for land, and the extra gold for silver, thats just me.

while i cant fault this logic, I live where water is scarce. BUT I happen to know how to both live off the liand in the wild so to speak, and grow food here well in the most extreme this place has gotten. Something not eeven the tribes here in the past were able to do without being nomadic. I consider this a huge plus because I have land in several spots, including areas known to NOT have water for 1000s of square miles, but i can thrive there. I ve several folks in mind when it becomes apparent such things will be needed for the safety in numbers aspect.

Soil can be built ANYWHERE, if you have the knowledge. Im certainly not faulting your logic Im just saying with the right knowledge soil and water can be taken care of. I do however agree on the wood, for more reasons then just fuel or even nuts or fruits... Biochar is AMAZING for soil building. Nothing like it in the world.

A killing winter sure does make things easier, and Ive seen you say it separates the men from the boys. How about throwing in poor soil and no water on top of it?

neilgin1 wrote:Hawkeye and silverflake, i really am sorry i dont know you boys WELL, coz i know several choices pieces. i DONT say that to tease or be mean, its just the internet, and you'll admit it too, we really gotta careful. But can i give you this, look for water, wood, soil, a killing winter, and a coherent country seat 10-20 miles away, with a county pop density of 30 people or less per sq mile, imho, those are good requirements and marker sticks......AND you use the gold for land, and the extra gold for silver, thats just me.

That pretty much sounds like where I live. Unfortunately, the people around here don't seem to be interested in giving up their land for what I can afford to pay. I'm still working on it, and will continue to work on it until I have it.

Cu Penny Hoarder wrote:Just mention two words and you'll shut his pie hole: "Eminent Domian".

You can always hide gold, you cannot hide land. Land/real estate is never really yours anyway... the "owner" simply rents it from the government. Just stop paying the taxes on a piece of property or a house and see what happens.

I have thought about that, and it does worry me a little. Of course, I am a law abiding citizen who pay my taxes (and all other bills) on time, so I should have nothing to worry about. But that's a BIG "should." You never know what the gov is going to do, but I would still take my chances with land.

It would be ideal to have both, land AND gold, silver. If I could only have one, or the other... it would have to be that ideal location of land we all dream about. A large acreage of good tillable soil, ample water, one portion with moderate hillside slope to build an underground house into. Deep root cellar with at least three feet of loose sandy loam on top and around it. At least 20 miles from any high population centers and off the beaten path.

30 years ago I was told to avoid getting into farming/ranching: " You would have to be a millionaire to start and a fool to do it."

I know there are pluses and minuses to both sides of the argument, but I have always dreamed of that spot of land. IF the government ever stops allowing price manipulation of PM's... one day I just might get it. By then I will be too old and beaten up to work it!

I think its more important to have enough land that you can work, to supply your homestead with food, than gold.
However you can usually feed a family of 4 with 1/4 to 1/2 acres of land.

If your taking shtf I would say, Basic needs comes before gold. Core Basic Needs (Protection, Shelter, Food, Water) Extended Basic Needs (Communications, Information, Trusted People, Barter Goods). Gold and Silver count as Barter Goods.

For example Pre-shtf you should buy a cheap hongkong ham radio, a gun or 2, water filter, seeds and start a garden, but after that start holding gold and silver.

so in the shtf outcome, I would argue that once you have 1/2 acres to 4 acres of land, Not really much reason to have more. I mean 100 Acres is great and I guess once you have so much barter goods maybe it would be time to get enough land that you can hunt wild game. so its a cycle little bit of land, then allot of gold, then more land, and then even more gold etc..


I am really big on investing.
if its good if s--t does not hit the fan, and if shtf
then I do it.

I can see things getting worse, but to the point I have to worry about high crime in wyoming, or finding a job as a network engineer, or war on US land, I doubt it.

ardorlan wrote:However you can usually feed a family of 4 with 1/4 to 1/2 acres of land.

so in the shtf outcome, I would argue that once you have 1/2 acres to 4 acres of land, Not really much reason to have more. I mean 100 Acres is great and I guess once you have so much barter goods maybe it would be time to get enough land that you can hunt wild game. so its a cycle little bit of land, then allot of gold, then more land, and then even more gold etc..

There are many reasons for a large acreage. Rape seed to make your own bio-diesel oil (it burns really HOT). Soybeans for a multitude of uses. Food, animal feed, and oil for bio-diesel. Corn, ethanol for gasohol and whiskey (hic!), food, and animal feed. Whiskey will come in real handy for barter. Sugar beets for sugar. Fruit-bearing trees and vines. I have traded work for a bottle of high octane wine that a guy would not do for $50. My cost was about $4.00 to make and bottle it (the glass bottle being the most expensive part).

With more land comes the opportunity for mineral extraction. Like natural gas. It is easy how to learn to tap into a nat. gas well for personal consumption. You can heat your home, run an electric generator, or a small vehicle with nat. gas.

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:

ardorlan wrote:However you can usually feed a family of 4 with 1/4 to 1/2 acres of land.

so in the shtf outcome, I would argue that once you have 1/2 acres to 4 acres of land, Not really much reason to have more. I mean 100 Acres is great and I guess once you have so much barter goods maybe it would be time to get enough land that you can hunt wild game. so its a cycle little bit of land, then allot of gold, then more land, and then even more gold etc..

There are many reasons for a large acreage. Rape seed to make your own bio-diesel oil (it burns really HOT). Soybeans for a multitude of uses. Food, animal feed, and oil for bio-diesel. Corn, ethanol for gasohol and whiskey (hic!), food, and animal feed. Whiskey will come in real handy for barter. Sugar beets for sugar. Fruit-bearing trees and vines. I have traded work for a bottle of high octane wine that a guy would not do for $50. My cost was about $4.00 to make and bottle it (the glass bottle being the most expensive part).

With more land comes the opportunity for mineral extraction. Like natural gas. It is easy how to learn to tap into a nat. gas well for personal consumption. You can heat your home, run an electric generator, or a small vehicle with nat. gas.

And when one dies, to divide up amongst one's heirs. Who will hopefully not sell it off the first time they want a new bauble.

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:

ardorlan wrote:However you can usually feed a family of 4 with 1/4 to 1/2 acres of land.

so in the shtf outcome, I would argue that once you have 1/2 acres to 4 acres of land, Not really much reason to have more. I mean 100 Acres is great and I guess once you have so much barter goods maybe it would be time to get enough land that you can hunt wild game. so its a cycle little bit of land, then allot of gold, then more land, and then even more gold etc..

There are many reasons for a large acreage. Rape seed to make your own bio-diesel oil (it burns really HOT). Soybeans for a multitude of uses. Food, animal feed, and oil for bio-diesel. Corn, ethanol for gasohol and whiskey (hic!), food, and animal feed. Whiskey will come in real handy for barter. Sugar beets for sugar. Fruit-bearing trees and vines. I have traded work for a bottle of high octane wine that a guy would not do for $50. My cost was about $4.00 to make and bottle it (the glass bottle being the most expensive part).

With more land comes the opportunity for mineral extraction. Like natural gas. It is easy how to learn to tap into a nat. gas well for personal consumption. You can heat your home, run an electric generator, or a small vehicle with nat. gas.

My point was only have as much land as you can work, but I am wrong, We are talking about if the s--t its the fan, in which case employment wouldn't be happening as much and that would provided me with 60 hours a week I could work land, and that is allot of land to be worked then.