Why we are losing ground on almost all fronts.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Where do I start on this one? The post-modern American mindset is self-destructive. American intellectuals have espoused for decades now how we should be open and liberal in our magnanimous approach to the rest of the world. It this type of logic that has led us to the bankruptcy of our morals, our currency, our national identity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/no ... les-leaked

The Army private deserves nothing less than a firing squad for treason.

The CIA should assassinate Mr. Wikileaks.

Of course, neither one of those will happen. We are too magnanimous and liberal in our "too big to fail" mindset.

[Kurr]

Wikileaks is a false front, psychological warfare operation, IMHO.

[Neckro]

Why? Because these papers show how corrupt and disgusting the US military complex has gotten? Every single one of those documents should be public knowledge. And there are far worse people the government can shoot for treason than some EM.

[Devil Soundwave]

I agree that the leaker should be tried for treason for betraying his country and for betraying his duty; but I certainly do not agree with the assertion that Julian Assange should be "assassinated" (wtf dude, seriously).

At the end of the day, if any regime (regardless of country or origin), wishes to escape criticism for it's actions, perhaps it shouldn't do things that warrant criticism in the first place; because, as proven here; just because something is deemed "secret" doesn't mean it will remain so.

I certainly hope nobody is put in any danger due to these leaks however; and I' hope that Mr Assange and his crew are sensible enough to redact anything which will endanger individuals but frankly, if the US government have acted like douche-bags then they deserve all they get, just like any other bunch of douche-bags.

[Kurr]

They seem to leak a lot of docs that go with what the U.S. wants public opinion to be. Iran developing nukes when all the world, the IAEA who closely monitors, says no, 16 U.S. Intel agencies says no, and everyother intel agency except the mossad says they are not.

Out of all of the whistleblowers sites that have been around for 15 years, corporate controlled media, which lead us into these wars as the government's cheerleaders, picks Julian Assange as their media darling, Whistleblower Czar. This is the same guy that is supposedly hunted by the CIA for termination but shows up on TV everywhere, who pushes "secret" documents saying Osama bin Laden is still alive, asked the Obama administration first if they wanted to see the documents before publishing, has shady connections to the CIA's favorite lefty funder George Soros, says he is "annoyed" by 9/11 truth and that there is NO conspiracy behind 9/11. That there IN ITSELF makes him, to any sensible person, a placeman of the security services.

WikiLeaks is lame. Please, everyone, go to the site and read everything there. I have seen more confidential information on a weather report... When you read Mr. Assange’s output, you are looking at one of the CIA/Mossad games, nothing more... The game today is using Wikileaks, given its 15 minutes of fame for trashing the US in Iraq with the helicopter video, to spread imaginary stories about Pakistan, the only nuclear power in the Middle East capable of standing up to Israel, and the enemy of India. Perhaps even more important, Pakistan is a staunch ally of China — a most dangerous liaison where USrael is concerned

Stuff like that.

The DHS justpulled 76 or so websites. Before the Iraq invasion many many islamic websites were blocked. No body can block wikileaks? Or the uploaders can not be traced/identified/monitored by the pentagon? You telling me the CIA can't find him with him on the news giving interviews?

If you see/hear something or someone on T.V., it is because they WANT you to see/hear it. Controlled Opposition.

As I see it, and I can be as wrong as anybody, this is going as planned.

Ever read about the 3 world wars prediction by Albert Pike in 1871? Ever even hear of him? He is the only confederate general to have a statue placed in Washington, DC. Interesting stuff.

Nielgin said a few days back, "Allways overestimate your enemy". I could not agree more.

As far as treason goes, how about those congressmen petitioning for the release of Jonathan Pollard? Is that not working for the interests of a foriegn country? To have the most damaging spy in the last 5 decades or so released and pardoned? Many US intel people were compromised and killed. National secrets were given to our enemies. Our nuclear security was compromised as well as our operations and technology.

I do not trust wikileaks no farther than I could throw them.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

The Jonathan Pollard case is precisely why, if convicted of treason and/or sedition, the US soldier should be shot by firing squad. We have swung too far to the left on punishment of traitors. It is time to send a message. It is not cool to compromise the missions, or endanger the lives and safety of US operatives, soldiers, or GS personnel working abroad. The US has not shot a soldier since WW2. It has not used capitol punishment on spys since the 1950's.

Pvt. Manning thought his own personal sense of morality was more important than the oath he took at induction into the US military. He was horribly wrong. He took the EM oath to obey the orders of his officers, to follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the US Code, and the Constitution of the United States of America. As he is about to find out, you don't enter into that oath lightly.

Pvt. Manning, and others like him have been raised up in an atmosphere of moral equivalency. Maybe Manning saw what happened to Pollard, and others like Pollard, and thought to himself that he could get away with it. Or, maybe even if he did get caught... it really would not be that big a deal. He almost got away with it. An example needs to be set. If not, how many more leaks will there be? How many more leaks have there already been and we just don't know about it???

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Wow. It looks like I opened up a can of worms! Oh, well, typical me.

Kurr quoted nielgin about "always overestimate your enemy." Good sounding stuff, but I have to ask: who is your enemy here? Please identify.

Is this a false flag op? It is a bazaar one if it is. But, bazaar works the best.

At 21, I took an oath similar to the Officers' Oath. It was the Civil Servants' Oath. I swore I would support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. As I look around today... I see the Constitution most definitely needs defending.

I have friends still working in theater. A Harvard study proved that insurgent violence rose significantly right after organized protests occurred state-side. If Julian Assange gets one of my friends killed by inflaming the passions of a part-time wannabee insurgent... I would not mind squeezing a few rounds into him myself. (That's wtf, dude.)

[Kurr]

ok, this has and is taking some thought, but I like a good spirited discussion and enjoying having paradoxes thrown at my thought process. You seem to have run me a ground on one. [:D]

Also seems like no one else wants to touch this. I like those kind too. [:D]

First I am a devout follower of Christ. As such I am opposed to the death penaly and believe we should treat our "enemies" with kindness and love as commanded. I do not want to get sermon-y but to clarify my posistion, we are taught that Jesus is Lord and King. If he is the king, I am his subject, and am subject to His laws and governance, and no other (no man can serve two masters). I am not a nationalist nor am I devouted to any political group/philosophy/theory. I obey every law I am bound to (though contracts) with honor. It is my pleasure, and I realize that "the state" is governance that was ordained for a purpose. I am not opposed to secular governance when used in it's proper, ordained capacity. I seek to do no man harm.

But, from a purely secular view, I agree with you. Spies should be publicly executed if the most efficient deterrent is to be applied. You treat spies with kindness only when you wish to "turn" them, and then you can never trust them due to their nature. Traditionaly swift and or painfull execution has been employed.

Ahhh but that is for a spy. Jonathan pollard is firmly in that category. This private seems to be a whistleblower. Simmiliar but not the same. Not working for anyone. Not supplying one group over another. He took the oath, was he trying to expose/stop a domestic enemy?

That in itself is an interesting term. Let us be sure of it's meaning.

[quote]
en·e·my (n-m)
n. pl. en·e·mies
1. One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes the interests of another; a foe.
2.
a. A hostile power or force, such as a nation.
b. A member or unit of such a force.
3. A group of foes or hostile forces. See Usage Note at collective noun.
4. Something destructive or injurious in its effects: "Art hath an enemy called Ignorance" (Ben Jonson).
adj.
Of, relating to, or being a hostile power or force.

Keeping in the parameters of the discussion, now that we have seen the definition of "enemy", who is the enemy?

I would say that "the enemy" is anyone or anything that is of an opposing interest (to me? us as a group? State? Nation? Society? Race? Specie? Interesting!!) that is hostile in nature, and destructive or injurious in it's effects.

Do not want to side track off too much here. But you asked me to define something and I have tried.

I still think wikileaks is some psyop head game. I don't know who is pushing it, But controlled opposition is the best thing I would call it, therefore anyone connected with it, either "whistleblower" or "agent" or "financier" is suspect in my book.

Personaly I ignore it.

If we concentrate on abolishing the FED then the financing for all the corrupt politicians and millitary industrial complex and security industrial complex and prison industrial complex and all the other foulness we are afflicted with GOES WITH IT.

Thank you Shiek, for the wonderfull oppertunity to explore this and discussion.

[aloneibreak]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/ ... times.html

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Well, I have pondered a response for several hours and have looked forward to spirited discussion on this subject as soon as I got home. But, I am going to pass. It's late and I have hours of work to do. Plus, I am a little ill from some medicine I started taking . All I want to do is go to bed right now.

Thanks, Kurr. "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17

Aloneibreak... good article.

[Thogey]

I agree with Kurr.

Ignore it. We don't know [shucks]. It's impossible to form an opinion. The information we have is selective.

However, If I were president the Wiki guy would be a vapor. Then again, I wanted to nuke the gulf oil leak.

Don't vote for thogey!

[Red]

Sheikh...
It seams to me like you have your "good guys" and "bad guys" mixed up?

Also there is nothing magnanimous about our current government.
George Washington and the founding fathers were magnanimous.. Ron Paul and Dennis Kusinich are magnanimous...
What we have now are violent war-mongering fear-mongering corrupt greedy liers who don't want to be exposed for how wretched they really are.
The Clintons, The bushes, The Obamas ... They are the real traitors.


1-Can't you see how ruthless the DHS, TSA, CIA, IRS, Police, FBI is getting? American citizens all branded as "potential terrorists"
2-We loose our rights every day because Neo-conservative/Neo-nazi thinking is dominant (even among social liberals).
3-Stop feeding the military industrial complex! Careless words about turning to violence without getting the story straight first is what has cost countless military and civilian lives all over the world while lining the pockets of a few elite arms manufacturers and contractors like Chenny's goons at Haliburton. We are losing on all fronts cause we shouldn't be at so many fronts in the first place...

And listen to John F. Kennedy's Words about these so called "secrets"
"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society"


Do you understand that right now in America your door can be broken down in the night (with no warrant) and you hauled off with no formal charges and no trail (RIP habeas corpus thanks to Bushes "unpatriot act" )... you can be torchered (Somthing the Geniva convention forbids even during times war to enemies let alone to your own citizines)...I could go on...
But the point is do you really know who the good guys are ... and whose side are you on?

Do some research sir, you are grossly ill equipped for these troubled times.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Sheikh...

Do some research sir, you are grossly ill equipped for these troubled times.

Hahahahahahahaaaaa!!!

You don't know squat about me.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I agree with Kurr.

Ignore it. We don't know [shucks]. It's impossible to form an opinion. The information we have is selective.

However, If I were president the Wiki guy would be a vapor. Then again, I wanted to nuke the gulf oil leak.

Don't vote for thogey!

I remember you saying you went to the Air Force Academy and were a ICBM silo commander. What if it was someone in your command who breached security and compromised the lives of your men? What would you have done?

[Thogey]

Where do I start on this one? The post-modern American mindset is self-destructive. American intellectuals have espoused for decades now how we should be open and liberal in our magnanimous approach to the rest of the world. It this type of logic that has led us to the bankruptcy of our morals, our currency, our national identity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/no ... les-leaked

The Army private deserves nothing less than a firing squad for treason.

The CIA should assassinate Mr. Wikileaks.

Of course, neither one of those will happen. We are too magnanimous and liberal in our "too big to fail" mindset.

I agree with most of what red wrote. Except he should also have bashed the limp-d**ked, weak, lazy, entitlement class, and the intellectual, libera,l anti-American snobs, and the high and mighty news media for their role in effing up this country.

Sheikh however seems well informed enough to form and intelligent opinion. I too once had a TS SIOP security clearance. Pretty much the keys to the kingdom. This much I know, I have never heard a news report that even come close to the facts involved, when I had first hand knowledge of a situation.

The above referenced suggestions should happen. Just because our gubmit is becoming tyrannical does not mean the US should lay down for this crap!

Edit to add: This comment "Do some research sir, you are grossly ill equipped for these troubled times" came from a position of ignorance.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Maybe Red is really a "Red"!

Guys, the Sheikh is signing off on this one. I am ill and need to go back to work. Have fun!

[Thogey]

I agree with Kurr.

Ignore it. We don't know [shucks]. It's impossible to form an opinion. The information we have is selective.

However, If I were president the Wiki guy would be a vapor. Then again, I wanted to nuke the gulf oil leak.

Don't vote for thogey!

I remember you saying you went to the Air Force Academy and were a ICBM silo commander. What if it was someone in your command who breached security and compromised the lives of your men? What would you have done?

If you dream about giving up nuclear secrets it's your ass. Most potential breaches, I was aware of, were caused by handeling errors, guys falling asleep etc. But never resulted in information being sent to the advisary.

It did happen once. A long time ago, a guy named Chris Cook sold a bunch of stuff to the USSR it was a huge problem. I think he got let off easy, as a deal, so he would disclose the details of what he sold.

[Red]

Thogey,
We could write a long list of the evils brought about by the welfare nanny state, illegal immigration, politically correctness etc .. etc
It just didn't fit into the topic as much (i thought). Out and out murdering people may not be politically correct, But it is also against the law

And I will still stand that Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay is a misinformed person who has either not taken the time to read the news and history....
or has been lead astray by the neo-cons.

Seeings as he didn't argue my points in any other way then saying...

"You don't know squat about me" and by insinuating that a am i communist. I think I'm justified in my position

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Thogey,
We could write a long list of the evils brought about by the welfare nanny state, illegal immigration, politically correctness etc .. etc
It just didn't fit into the topic as much (i thought). Out and out murdering people may not be politically correct, But it is also against the law

And I will still stand that Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay is a misinformed person who has either not taken the time to read the news and history....
or has been lead astray by the neo-cons.

Seeings as he didn't argue my points in any other way then saying...

"You don't know squat about me" and by insinuating that a am i communist. I think I'm justified in my position

I am not going to post very much because I am taking CHEMOTHERAPY right now, Red.

I will take you on another time.

By the way, welcome to Realcent. Stick around, you might learn something.

EDIT: Imagine that! Someone is complaining I am a left-wing leaning neo-con!

[Red]

Chemo is nasty stuff, hope that works out for you.

I never accused you of being left wing. I'm quite sure your not.

But your very first post is quite telling...
Do you know who John Perkins is .. if not watch this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbdnNgqfs8
You titled this post "Why we are losing ground on almost all fronts." and you stated that the "CIA" should take action.... Mr Perkins
explains why your post is 180 degrees off. The whole reason we are losing wars on all fronts has to do with our foreign and monetary policy. And a big part of that problem is the "CIA"

I will be glad to provide more information if you have any doubts.

[Thogey]

Just to humor the uninformed, grossly ill equipped masses.

What is a neo-con? Where should the ill equipped go to learn the truth?

[Red]

ok ok.. I admit i was a little too dramatic.
I wax poetic when I'm fired up
In a nutshell...
"Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that supports using economic and military power (force) to bring about a desired objective to other countries.

These days it is prevalent in both parties in the united states. and is opposite to libertarianism and traditional conservationism.
Neo-cons also tend to have a imperialistic view of the united states. They are all for nation building. policing the world, preemptive war. With special interests like the "Military Industrial Complex" see what Eisenhower said about it in his farewell address http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXtyIQjubU

Because of this we are operating like a empire on the wold stage with as George Orwell liked to call it "perpetual war".
All these wars makes our relationship with other countries strained... The 911 commission report indicated that our long involvement and interference in the middle east was a direct
cause (the CIA calls it "blowback") for the attacks in Newyork.

Now this isn't "blame America" talk. the American people had no knowledge of our dealings around the world.... America wasn't to blame for 911... it was our corrupt government
grabbing up oil in the middle east.. throw in a few Islamic nutjobs and the rest is history.

Still it continues,
Secrets have to be kept. back room talks and deals up the wazoo.
I don't have any sympathy for a man who would sell out his country for a few bucks. People who give weapon plans or exact troop locations to an enemy for money are truly evil.
But if your motive is to stand up and expose wrong doing... you are more of a patriot then a traitor.

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then.” ~T. Jefferson

Maybe one day when the people wake up we will have a smaller more open government like the founding fathers lived and died for... for now we have this messed up situation.

[Thogey]

"Conservatism is a political philosophy that supports using economic and military power (force) to bring about a desired objective to other countries.

Is this wrong, in your opinion, if the inhabitants of said country would like nothing more than to rip your guts out, burn them in an open fire, and throw the ashes in the face of your widow and fatherless children?

I've heard this term a lot over the past 15 years, and I'm trying to figure out if a neo-con is bad or good.

Or if i may be a sympathizer. Your post was very well written thank you

Edit to add, What do you mean by grabbing up oil in the middle east? I thought oil was sold in an open market? If not would it be better to develop oil resources on USA soil?

[fb101]

And just reading through all the differing opinions here brings three words to mind.

"Divide and Conquer"

[Kurr]

Mike Rivero of Whatreallyhappened.com wrote this list about iceland electing common folk to draft a new constitution. I would like to see it done here, after a few things are taken care of. I think it would be a great way to stop losing ground and start gaining.

First I say open a criminal investigation against all members of the fed gov starting at the top and going down from there. Arrest, try, and imprison any found to be involed in such.

Now, on to the articles:

Article 1: No private central banks.

Article 2: All government salaries permanently tied to lowest Icelandic wage.

Article 3: No borrowing that cannot be repaid within the term of the current administration.

Article 4: All voting members of the government to have their entire wealth in a blind trust during the term of office.

Article 5: Vote fraud is grounds for immediate removal from campaign, office, and a lifetime ban on further involvement with the government.

Article 6: The National Sovereignty shall not be subverted to larger globalist alliances.

Article 7: All prior claims against previous Icelandic governments are null and void.

I really like them ideas. What do ya'll think?