The real threat... I am sticking to eagles going forwards

[mflugher]

So assuming that they make them to the correct dimensions, which should be easy, the weight would more difficult to get right, so a very accurate scale would be the most important investment.

What other tests are there? Would an acid test work work if it's silver plated? How about a sound test?

I generally don't bother with calipers on silver coins/rounds/bars, just weight, on gold I feel its more important as mistakes are significantly more expensive...


Acid test is destructive, but would work, you would have to first scratch the coin with a knife, then test the scratch, I do it on silverware/sterling teasets/hollowware all the time, I don't do it with coins because they are a known weight/size as explained before.

Generally I test with a drop on undamaged surface (this will remove all patina/tarnish and leave you with slightly etched bright white silver), then if it passes, I will scratch with knife and retest, if its plated you will generally see a blue or green line where the scratch is surrounded by the red we all know is silver.

However you now have a scratched coin with a discolored area where the acid drop was sitting.

If I'm still not sure I'll cut the coin in half and sell it for scrap.



I find for silver the scraping on a stone like you do with gold is not very easy to use due to the dark color of the stone, I find putting drops directly on the item is the best way to go...


I don't deal in numis (don't have the contacts to sell nor the expertise in grading to buy right), I don't deal in large bullion bars, (people with these items want me to make too small a margin, and again I don't have the customer base to sell quickly, its not worth my time/opportunity cost since I don't hedge and don't have unlimited funds to buy) 10 oz silver bar is largest I've ever bought, 1 oz gold bullion is largest I've ever bought.

[mflugher]

$6.09 with free shipping from Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Weigh-MS-500-BLK- ... B000P1NYE8

$5.52 shipped from ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1kg-0-1g-500g-0 ... 0785316945

Funny, China sells the disease and the cure.

spend the extra $4 for the whopping total price of $10 and get the one with .01g accuracy, if you are doing gold and afraid of tungsten fakes you will need it if you want to get even close to detecting them... If you are buying scrap jewelry the extra accuracy will save you money/protect your sellers in the long run. Imho, if you are going to buy a scale go for it. The model I pointed out works very well and measures accuratly compared to my certified mettler to within .05 dwt even on 200+dwt lots. I just think thats where you want to be... Also I have not tested all models but some claim .1g accuracy and are only really accurate to 0.2 to 0.5 when you account for the fact they can't be calibrated/corrected. I'd say its safe to assume that the accuracy is only good to 1 less decimal place than the scale says it is, then you know you are safe, a 1g mistake is a big deal 20 to 30 bucks or more, a 0.1g mistake is only 2 to 3 bucks.

Cheap scales are cheaply made, and expect quality to suffer, I'd test it against a known scale before using it in the business. Mistakes can cost a lot of money in this game, orders of magnitude larger than the cost of a scale...


The one I pointed out I know is pretty good for the price, I've bought about 8 of them, only 1 has malfunctioned, the others all work very well and are quite portable.

No offense to the other guys who posted scale links, I'm not saying the other scales are bad, but I have personal first hand knowledge on the scale i pointed out, and I just wanted to tell you guys its pretty damn good for the price.

Be careful and DYODD on any scale you buy. Even your high end Mettlers

[brian0918]

junk silver is not the be all end all answer either. We have all seen fake silver dollars and I have seen fake half dollars as well and quarters...If silver keeps going up we will see more of them soon.

If you're that worried, and don't believe these other tests will catch everything, you could stick with fractional silver. The smaller the fractional, the more difficult to make it look real and still have the correct weight/dimensions.

[brian0918]

spend the extra $4 for the whopping total price of $10 and get the one with .01g accuracy

The one I linked to claims it has a 0.01g accuracy. There's also one identical to yours (except 300g maximum capacity) for $8.29 on ebay. They also sell a 200g max capacity scale for $7.69 with 0.01g accuracy.

I bought a couple different brands, including the one you recommended, and will test them out for reliability.

[mflugher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inn8iVASxLY
This is a 2011 video...

Fake Silver and Gold Flood Global Markets; 100,000 Coins From A Single Counterfeiter!
http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gol ... =Mac+Slavo

I'm not diminishing your concerns but you will notice that all the counterfeits they pointed out were off weight. The coin dealer admitted he was not paying much attention to the coin he was buying when he got screwed, at least as not attention as should be paid when shelling out $1500 for an object that fits in the palm of your hand. Would you buy a used car without taking it for a test drive? A used electronic device without testing it? $1500 worth of canned goods without making sure the seals seemed to be good?

He was negligent and he paid the price, it sucks, it also sucks that such counterfeits are out there, it sucks there are people who will try to pass them as real. But we live in realville, and in realville [shucks] happens, it really sucks for him that he didn't take 10 seconds of his time to throw it on the scale would have prevented this issue. You will see the other coin dealer was explaining exactly why he couldn't buy a coin from that woman later in the clip...


I know my posts are a long winded, so I'll break it down on how to avoid 99% of fakes (which may be 1/2 of 1 percent of the population of junk silver/1 oz or less bullion items that we the little guy deal in;


1. buy a quality scale accurate to the hundreth of a gram, this and a chart will eliminate 90% of fakes.
2. buy a pair of calipers, accurate measurements will eliminate most of the fakes that pass #1
3. Be careful when buying gold, it is far more likely to be faked.
4. Be careful when buying items worth more than their bullion value (numismatics) they are much more likely to be faked.
5. If after all this YOU STILL HAVE THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT... Walk away from the deal, even the opportunity to buy 50% off silver/gold is not worth the possiblity of ending up with 100% off value because you were fooled...

[fusscharles]

I can smell copper in a coin... I just cant detect other metals. The sound test is the only reliable way for me, plus sourcing from hundreds of different places spreads my risk

[SilverDragon72]

I looked and searched deeper not just on the site listed but lots of others and could not believe what I found. I am not going to post the links but I am finding all type of brands of "silver bars" 1 oz and 10oz that have been copied.

They are making them in brass to the exact standards and plating them with silver. I can get 5 "1oz silver bars" sealed in plastic for $21.99! Everything someone thinks they can make money on will likely be copied. EVERYTHING!

The American Eagle is not protected....I am not sure what you could do to protect yourself unless everyone is going to walk around with an X ray machine!

Wouldn't they be protected by the US mint? I suppose only if you bought it directly from them, yes.

[mflugher]

I looked and searched deeper not just on the site listed but lots of others and could not believe what I found. I am not going to post the links but I am finding all type of brands of "silver bars" 1 oz and 10oz that have been copied.

They are making them in brass to the exact standards and plating them with silver. I can get 5 "1oz silver bars" sealed in plastic for $21.99! Everything someone thinks they can make money on will likely be copied. EVERYTHING!

The American Eagle is not protected....I am not sure what you could do to protect yourself unless everyone is going to walk around with an X ray machine!

Wouldn't they be protected by the US mint? I suppose only if you bought it directly from them, yes.

yes if you buy directly and you aren't super paranoid... however your premiums will be higher if you buy directly, vs buying "used"

<tinfoilhat on> Also assumes US mint doesn't some day decide silver/gold are too expensive to make their bullion out of and then tries to make some extra bucks to help cover a budget deficit by debasing their own bullion. <tinfoilhat off> I don't believe that is likely, but within realm of possibility easily as possible as gold confiscation/ft knox fake gold/exec order to implement marshall law which certain members believe in...

[scyther]

I looked and searched deeper not just on the site listed but lots of others and could not believe what I found. I am not going to post the links but I am finding all type of brands of "silver bars" 1 oz and 10oz that have been copied.

They are making them in brass to the exact standards and plating them with silver. I can get 5 "1oz silver bars" sealed in plastic for $21.99! Everything someone thinks they can make money on will likely be copied. EVERYTHING!

The American Eagle is not protected....I am not sure what you could do to protect yourself unless everyone is going to walk around with an X ray machine!

Wouldn't they be protected by the US mint? I suppose only if you bought it directly from them, yes.

yes if you buy directly and you aren't super paranoid... however your premiums will be higher if you buy directly, vs buying "used"

<tinfoilhat on> Also assumes US mint doesn't some day decide silver/gold are too expensive to make their bullion out of and then tries to make some extra bucks to help cover a budget deficit by debasing their own bullion. <tinfoilhat off> I don't believe that is likely, but within realm of possibility easily as possible as gold confiscation/ft knox fake gold/exec order to implement marshall law which certain members believe in...

I think it's very unlikely. Someone would figure it out pretty quickly. Gold confiscation, sadly, seems much more realistic to me...