Visit to local coin shop prices and premium

[Jonflyfish]

You can be skeptical. You also don't participate. If those who participated were skeptical they would vanish faster than one's opinion about what they think but do not know from the sidelines. Those who don't express confidence in the USD don't have to hold it. However, I do not know of any employers or merchants that don't use it. So, I use it. And I prefer to use it instead of my physical position. There is a stong tone from dealers (that wouldn't be you, right) that physical is better than paper. My view is that I go where the opportunity is. I don't have to marry my beliefs that no matter what, there is only one answer. That sounds like a view spread by a dealer. And, BTW- I've never seen dealers happier than when they make a large cash transaction, like they couldn't hand over that metal fast enough. Perhaps the shill in them needed to pay for food, rent, car, kid's tuition, gas in the tank etc. USD is for shills except for when one needs to pay for goods and services. Suddenly it then has tangible value LOL.
Cheers!

I was referring to the integrity of futures and paper commodities, not the USD. Though the USD is certainly lacking integrity and a big factor in market booms and busts.

I'll just go back to my original question one more time, since it still hasn't been answered. Where is your proof that dealers are still buying retail-sized silver in bulk at "normal" premiums and are therefore gouging by charging $4 - $5 over spot? And if you know where you can buy bulk retail-sized silver for "normal" premiums and the retail side is supporting $4 - $5 over, then why not jump on that easy money train since, as you said, "my view is that I go where the opportunity is?" You can be skeptical. You also don't participate. If those who participated were skeptical they would vanish faster than one's opinion about what they think but do not know from the sidelines.

The integrity of the paper markets is evidenced to be strong becasue that's where the flows are. $Trillions traded daily. Far cry from a junk roll going out the door at spot +xx for one customer then spot +x for the next. No integrity in that. Unethical and uncouth.
I do not have evidence that dealers are buying retail lots at "normal" premiums. In fact, I never said such rubbish, so why are you asking me to support something I never said? However, since it is of obvious concern to you, do you have evidence that non of the dealers have purchased retail lots at "normal premiums"?
Further, how do you know that I haven't "gone where the opportunity is?" I don't "participate"? LOL

Cheers!

[Engineer]

The integrity of the paper markets is evidenced to be strong becasue that's where the flows are. $Trillions traded daily. Far cry from a junk roll going out the door at spot +xx for one customer then spot +x for the next. No integrity in that. Unethical and uncouth.

It's not a far cry at all. Goldman's "good" customers get the first crack at IPOs and more timely market information than their "average" customers. Both businesses are catering to the people who make money for them week after week.

Are Hilton reward point or frequent flyer miles unethical and uncouth?

Are you really that myopic to the world of quantity/loyalty discounts, or are you just stretching to attack the people who trade physical metals outside of your market?

[pmbug]

Tulving is nearly sold out of all silver products (just some NTR branded bars and 1 kilo Kola coins left).

Apmex is, for the first time that I've ever seen, sold out of 100 ozt silver bars.

[NDFarmer]

Premium on Provident Metals for ASE's is up to $5.69 So they are still around $30.00

[natsb88]

The integrity of the paper markets is evidenced to be strong becasue that's where the flows are.

By that logic, Bernie Madoff ran an operation of integrity, because there was lots of money flowing through it.



Volume by itself is not a measure of integrity. That's just a silly statement. There are lots of flows in the drug cartels, that doesn't mean they bring stability, integrity, or price discovery to the drug market. There were lots of flows through the automotive market...the housing market...the derivatives market... Really, the bigger the market, the more cash flowing through it, the more opportunity there is for unethical behavior, as it becomes more difficult to detect abnormalities. What would show up as a rounding error in the big picture could be a tidy pocket lining for someone working inside the system.

$Trillions traded daily. Far cry from a junk roll going out the door at spot +xx for one customer then spot +x for the next. No integrity in that. Unethical and uncouth.

So those contractor prices at Lowe's that only contractors get...those are unethical and uncouth? If I offer a discount to Realcent members for something I sell on my website...that's unethical? Coupons...that's unethical too? Is the market price not simply the price agreed to by both the buyer and seller? Ask a plastics or metals supplier how many different pricing tiers they have. When we buy material for our machine shop, we go back and forth between 3 or 4 different suppliers to find the best price. Sometimes they will revise their quote 2-3 times to get our business. It can be a pain in the rear, but negotiation isn't unethical, it's capitalism. Customers are free to walk away from a dealer if they don't like the price. There are other dealers, or they can simply choose not to purchase silver. Personally, when I set up at a show, everything gets a price tag. There is no spouting off different prices to different folks...I don't like that game. But I am still open to negotiation, and I still believe that getting the highest price possible for your product is simply part of capitalism; I'm not going to condemn people for going about that in a different way than I do.

That sense of entitlement...that sense of "I have the RIGHT to purchase this item from this private dealer for the exact same price as everybody else," is not compatible with free markets and capitalism. That dealer doesn't have to tell you the time of day if he doesn't want to. Dealers, businesses...they are not drones to some central price-setting authority. They are independent, left to succeed or fail based on their own decisions and policies. To say that one dealer must sell for the same price as another, or that a dealer must sell for the same price to all of his customers, is to say that the dealer is not allowed to run his own business, that he does not have the authority to set prices or make buying and selling decisions for his inventory. It's the antithesis of capitalism. But it seems to be something a lot of big traders have in common...they don't want to deal with competition, they don't want to deal with variables...they want some authority, some invisible hand, to keep them safe from the uncertainties of free markets.

Somebody exchanging $200 cash for a roll of silver quarters at a coin shop is a much more ethical transaction than the 60% of silver futures currently trading on silver that doesn't exist. Comex hands out slips of paper that all say, identically, "you can settle this contract in physical silver," when they know darn well they would fall far short of doing so if everybody elected to settle in physical. Fractional reserves, fractional banking...how, pray tell, is that ethical?

I do not have evidence that dealers are buying retail lots at "normal" premiums. In fact, I never said such rubbish, so why are you asking me to support something I never said?

You have said, numerous times, that dealers charging more than a "normal" premium are gouging. That implies that dealers are still able to purchase inventory at "normal" premiums and then are applying abnormal margins, which would only be sustainable if there were forces other than supply and demand in play. But you go on to say that you cannot prove or disprove the dealers' cost basis, so therefore you don't know the margins, but somehow you still know they are gouging? You may not have written out "dealers are buying at normal premiums," but that's a necessary condition for your assertion that "dealers charging higher premiums are gouging." Just as you have accused others of doing in this thread and the silver price thread, you are throwing around a speculation as fact, and have no evidence to back it up.

[reddirtcoins]

apmex was over $550+ on a bag of $100 Halves... Now that is just crazy. (That's a 33%+ markup from melt)

[SoFa]

I don't think the dealers are able to get enough (if any) ASEs at the normal premium. Apmex is offering $26.92 ($3.75 over spot) for 2013 eagles.
The assertion that they are able to buy at "normal" premiums is a false statement.

[OneBiteAtATime]

at myl LCS the shelves are bear.

[coincrazy]

Wow this topic really went crazy!

Update:

I could have purchased 50oz of silver @ 27 from my LCS when I posted this. My buddy placed an order online for 50oz @25.50 from a reputable online retailer. He just today got an e-mail telling him it would be over 2 months on back order before he receives his metal. So for the $75 premium he could have walked out with 50oz of metal. Instead he tried to play the paper price game and has essentially purchased a futures contract that may not even hold up if the price goes north again they could easily just refund him his money causing him to miss the dip.

[angel2004]

On Monday a friend was able to get halves at $20/$1 face. Not that bad. Not sure of what's out there now. That was 20 percent over spot

[deacon]

There is a coin show in my area this weekend. Do you think its worth going to, or will there be super high premiums like everywhere else?

[angel2004]

I went to a coin show last weekend and for the mostpart there was no 'junk' silver or gold to buy. Just collectable items that didn't really show the spot decline.

[SoFa]

I went to a coin shop and 4 pawn shops this afternoon.

There were no other customers in the coin shop. They wanted $30 for eagles (no sales tax), and $4 over spot for Prospectors and milk spotted Phils (plus sales tax came to about $29/ea).

One pawn shop had an Engelhard 1oz bar and some painted eagles. They wanted $34 each.
Another one had some eagles from Littleton marked $64.95.
Another pawn shop said they never have silver.
The last one had a 100oz Engelhard and some Kennedy halves. He told me he usually sells the halfs for $25.

The local coin shows here usually have good prices. But I'm expecting a mob scene of people grabbing everything in sight this weekend if they're selling for the usual premiums.

[SilverDragon72]

I went to a couple of LCS today. I paid 19.5xFV for my 90 percent. Grabbed some war nicks too!

They wanted spot +8 for new BU 2013 ASE. A bit pricey if you ask me on those.

[scyther]

Assuming the price stays low, how long do you think it will be before supply comes back and premiums go down? I'd like to buy a variety of rounds and bullion coins from provident, I'm thinking maybe some time over the summer, since I don't think the price will go back up until August... i assume that's enough time for them to get more in stock... right?

[Engineer]

Assuming the price stays low, how long do you think it will be before supply comes back and premiums go down? I'd like to buy a variety of rounds and bullion coins from provident, I'm thinking maybe some time over the summer, since I don't think the price will go back up until August... i assume that's enough time for them to get more in stock... right?

In theory, the premium will adjust in line with the average backorder time. How long it will take the manufacturers to catch up is anyone's guess.

[Klark Cent]

a few days ago when silver was in the 28s, my LCS was selling 90% quarters and dimes at 22x (a normal premium for them over the last couple years I that I have been observing).

now they are asking 22.2x. price went up!

[Klark Cent]

I bought small ziplock of 21 silver washington quarters at a pawn shop today for 19x (nothing to really brag about). the price tag on them was $5.99 each (24x). I offered $100 for the bag, she went to ask and/or check the price of silver, and she came back and said yes.

Then it occurred to me that some pawn shops may not be aware that the premium on 90% went up dramatically when the price dropped last week. I wish I would have offered $85.

I might start going to some pawn shops.

I think coin stores will be less likely to make this "mistake".

[messymessy]

I bought small ziplock of 21 silver washington quarters at a pawn shop today for 19x (nothing to really brag about). the price tag on them was $5.99 each (24x). I offered $100 for the bag, she went to ask and/or check the price of silver, and she came back and said yes.

Then it occurred to me that some pawn shops may not be aware that the premium on 90% went up dramatically when the price dropped last week. I wish I would have offered $85.

I might start going to some pawn shops.

I think coin stores will be less likely to make this mistake.

I visited several pawn shops before silver dropped and they were asking 30x face for 90%.

[marine70]

I went to my LCS yesterday he had just come back from Geogia show. He had 10 ounce bars he had purchased from silvertowne for 26 an ounce. I bought one while I was there he got a call where he quoted the price. The person on the other end wanted to buy all that he had, he stated that he did not want to sell all of them because he wanted his regulars to have a chance at some silver. He said that the phone calls just kept coming in for quotes on silver and what he had. He was frustrated that he did not have time to show collector coins because of the constant phone calls.

[alpacafarmer]

My LCS was paying 19X and selling at 21X when spot was $32. Now with spot at $23 he is paying 20X and still selling at 21X.

[neilgin1]

on high quality rolls of 90's and 40's, the "premium" has nudged down a few ticks, that's it.....what some call "premium".....in ag terms is called the "basis"

for instance, on ANY AU/BU/GemBU Walking Halves, you're still trading between 35 to 50 times face...like or not, that's THE MARKET....

..I MIGHT break my budget, I see something...and since the last past weeks, where I believe everything has gone to s###, better ramp and amp on Ag NOW, God only knows what the screwheads are going to pull next.

[SoFa]

I had to drive a ways, but it was worth it because I found a place with all sorts of new foreign bullion in addition to American.

Silver Eagle $6 over spot
90% Half dollars 20x
5g bars $8
Takus $8 over
1/10 Gold and Platinum Eagles Spot plus 20% ($168)
New generic rounds arriving today $2.50 over

[SilverDragon72]

Wow this topic really went crazy!

Update:

I could have purchased 50oz of silver @ 27 from my LCS when I posted this. My buddy placed an order online for 50oz @25.50 from a reputable online retailer. He just today got an e-mail telling him it would be over 2 months on back order before he receives his metal. So for the $75 premium he could have walked out with 50oz of metal. Instead he tried to play the paper price game and has essentially purchased a futures contract that may not even hold up if the price goes north again they could easily just refund him his money causing him to miss the dip.

I've checked APMEX and Provident today....nearly ALL of their silver offerings are either "stock delayed" or "out of stock"

I'm guessing many other dealers are in the same situation?

Even the foreign stuff! Slim pickings, to be sure

[beauanderos]

My LCS was offering junk at 23X face... if/when some came in. They were willing to call me if I wanted to pay a deposit. No thanks. You have to buy $1500 minimum in CA to avoid taxes.