Feedback

[beauanderos]

This happened on another forum, and I haven't left feedback yet. Mulling over what to do. Ordered some small gold coins and paid for them. Asked seller to hold them as I might add to order. A week passed and I notified seller to go ahead and ship as I would be buying no more gold. A few days later I bought a fairly large amount of silver from same seller. Seller notified me that silver had shipped and sent tracking. After receiving silver I sent a PM asking when I might be receiving gold. Disposed of boxes and left for another out of town week. A few days later seller responds that gold was in box with silver, but no notification of shipping, or that both items were in one box, had warned me to look for it. Apparently, when box was opened the heavy plastic enclosed silver tumbled out, leaving a light box with no reason for me to think there was anything further inside... and the box was tossed into the garbage.

Upon receipt of PM I could have driven back six hours to check alley trash can, but chose not to. It may have already been dumped by that time (two days later) or could have still been there. I trust this seller when he states he had included the gold, as we have had countless satisfactory transactions... yet the fact remains I paid $424 for gold I do not have. I was never notified that the gold had been shipped, never sent an individual tracking number for a gold shipment, so I had no reason to carefully search the box containing the silver. The question is... does this merit negative feedback? I have exchanged PM's with seller, who is dismayed and feels horrible that this occurred, but feels no further obligation as he states that he is sure he did ship the item.

Regardless of what I ultimately decide to post, and here I am seeking the thoughts of others... let this be a very expensive lesson. Notify your buyers when you have shipped and provide tracking. Never combine shipments without notifying your buyer that additional items are present in the shipping box. This is the first time this has ever happened to me, there might be a very lucky dumpster diver out there somewhere, or this may be three rare gold coins that are sitting in a landfill somewhere... I'm certainly not going to go to the County Dump and try and dig through mounds of trash.

What would you do?

[neilgin1]

I feel terrible for you....what would I do?...I don't know. I don't believe i'd leave negative feedback...I do know what I would do if I was the seller, but that's just me, which is why I don't sell PM's.....especially to guys I like, my emotions get in the way of business.

i'm sorry that happened to you bud...if I was near ya, i'd say, lets a get a little pie-eyed, whats that stuff coroners put under their noses?...and go dump diving for three hours MAX....chin up OB.

[scrapper2010]

I don't think it merits neg feedback. Yes he should have warned you but how would he have known something crazy would've happened like the silver just plopping out of the box upon opening.. Sounds like his intentions were good. Sorry to hear about this. Leaves a lump in my throat for you both. Some guy with a metal detector will probably be very happy 200 years from now, if that's any consolation.

[barrytrot]

I definitely would NOT leave negative feedback.

[shinnosuke]

Question 1: Since you have previously dealt with the seller, does he ALWAYS notify you at the time he ships to you? If yes, then it is fair for you to assume that he should have notified you about the gold shipment.

Question 2: Does he always ship 2-3 days after you pay him? Your gold was not shipped immediately in spite of your instructions for him to go ahead and ship. According to him, he just happily had a silver order to combine with your 3-coin gold order a few days later.

The amount of money in question is not significant, but I think it also unfair for him to claim no responsibility for the loss:
1. He didn't notify you.
2. He didn't ship when you told him.
3. He has had many other successful deals with you. Is it fair for him to take his profits but never accept any losses when dealing with a good customer?

If it were me, and the seller didn't cover any portion of the loss, I would add a neutral feedback and explain that I don't want to do business with that member again.

[JobIII]

Wow this really sucks. There were clearly a series of oversights made by both parties. Since you believe the seller shipped the gold coins, I would not leave negative feedback. I would like to note that this is beyond terrible, to have happened to one of the very best shippers of coins & PMs I have ever worked with.

Rules to Live by when doing trades on RC or anywhere else:

Buyer - should always check the package for all contents inside. You can even confirm the items arrived in a PM back to the seller (personally I really appreciate this step)
Seller- should inform the buyer when the package was shipped along with the contents of the package. This is pretty easy since most times you are forwarding the tracking info anyways.

I'm really sorry this happened. When I received my Ryedale I was so excited I just tossed the box it had traveled in. I only realized much later that I had accidentally tossed the nickel slide and a brand new replacement wheel that were still in with the bubble wrap...

~JobIII

[christostock]

Yes ,it's me, mister douche bag.
I do NOT notify people when I ship items as I usually am shipping 8-12 boxes at a time.
I do notify people after they ask for a tracking number.
I do not ship instantly on every item when the person says to ship as sometimes I have other business that gets in the way of metals and needs my attention. That often starts before PO opens and ends after PO closes for days at a time.
So sometimes it may take 2-4 days before I ship after a buyer says to go ahead and ship.

If it makes anybody happy I am willing to give up my $12 profit and donate it to Ray to help cover the problem.
Is the $12 profit?
90 minutes of driving to get them and get home.
gas for the drive.
more time to post them for sale.
wife pissed at me most of the time for chasing this hobby/business all over the state(just thought I would throw this one in there)
I don't know what to say!

[beauanderos]

Well, I was trying to keep this anonymous... but Shinnosuke? There's the answer to your question. I don't want to avoid this seller in the future as Chris is one of the best sources we have for both inexpensive silver and gold bullion that we have on this site. His willingness to wholesale at very good prices makes it possible for me to pick up occasional large lots and mark them up minimally to retail in smaller roll amounts. Without access to sourcing junk at fair prices, selling will dry up.

To do list:
keep watching listings that christostock posts... they usually go fast which tells you they are priced fairly
remember to ask seller to forewarn me if similar situation should arise in future
notify MY buyers to avert anything like this happening.

This could happen to anyone, so let's learn from this.

[JJM]

Ouch... tough situation all around.

To the OP: Personally, it sounds to me like you like to "bundle" things, as you asked him to hold off shipping initially. Has this happened before? Does the seller know you like to ship things together? If so, its reasonable to expect him to include more than one purchase in the same box. If this wasn't normal behavior, then it's a different story of course & this is a moot point.

But I don't understand why you wouldn't call one of your neighbors & ask them to put your trash somewhere "out of reach", or call a friend back home to search out the box in question. Given the circumstances, these sounds like reasonable responses. Alternatively, I've driven 6 hours for far less than $400 before, but that's just me. Maybe I'm crazy...lol.

Personally, I don't think negative feedback is justified. You were expecting more items from the seller, I think you have a reasonable expectation to search through the box you were sent because of this. Especially if they perceive you as a "bundler", but even if they don't.

To the counter-party: I also think the name calling is out of line though. And busy or not, tracking #'s and confirmation communications are the norm anymore. If the business model is so thin there isn't time, its probably time to take a step back and question whether the risk is worth the reward.

[Copper Member]

As many have, I have had transactions with both parties and have had nothing but good results. It's a shame that something like this happened. I feel for both parties.

[rsk1963]

As many have, I have had transactions with both parties and have had nothing but good results. It's a shame that something like this happened. I feel for both parties.

+1

[slickeast]

I am sure this is tough for both parties to swallow. Ray is probably kicking himself for not double checking the box. Chris is probably upset that the items were overlooked. Both members are stand up guys and I don't hesitate to do business with either.

Just a thought. Maybe in hindsight Chris could have put the items together in a zip lock bag. Also if I was Ray I would have had someone get the box out of the trash for me. Then again, Hindsight is always 20/20.

[TXBullion]

I am sure this is tough for both parties to swallow. Ray is probably kicking himself for not double checking the box. Chris is probably upset that the items were overlooked. Both members are stand up guys and I don't hesitate to do business with either.

Just a thought. Maybe in hindsight Chris could have put the items together in a zip lock bag. Also if I was Ray I would have had someone get the box out of the trash for me. Then again, Hindsight is always 20/20.

Slickeast, you are such a good guy, lets have you chalk up some of that gold and make it all better

[christostock]

To the counter-party: I also think the name calling is out of line though.

This was me calling myself a douche bag

[christostock]

RAY,
You will be receiving 1 gold coin of lesser quality than the 3 you lost.
Same type of coin.
This is my share (what I feel) of the mistake.
DO NOT THROW THIS PACKAGE OUT OR THERE WILL BE MORE GOLD AT YOUR DUMP.
Shipped today. no tracking number.

[christostock]

Some of you have gotten SFR boxes with the same MO.
CD mailer with the few gold coins inside it. CD mailer is bent to fit into SFR box.
CD mailer gets crammed into SFR and is rather stuck inside the SFR (not taped into the SFR but just bent in and stuck)

[CLINT-THE-GREAT]

Having done several transactions with both parties, i feel for you both. But I, like Ray did, have thrown coins away by accident.... and maybe it was because we get so worried about postal people theiving our coins we pack them EXTRA especially well.... and then this happens. But you can't blame Chris for "packing it too good", because if it had been lost or stolen someone woulda said he didn't pack it good enough....

When it happened to me and I threw out a few coins from the 1800s, the seller didn't/wouldn't do anything about it. I think it was Extremely big of Chris to replace even just one of the coins. The character of the people on this site is just unbelievable. I am glad to be a part of this family.

Again my condolences to both Ray and Chris, two really GREAT guys

-The Great

[slickeast]

Don't feel to bad guys. I once sold a 1955 Doubled Die that was graded by PCGS and a 5 ounce ATB at the same time on Fee-Bay. I managed to mix the shipping labels up and they received each others items. The person that got the 1955 Doubled Die contacted me first. Glad he did because he was ahead by over $2000 if he would have lied about what he received. The person that got the ATB had to be contacted by phone. He was super nice and wanted to buy the ATB coin too. I refunded them the money to ship both items back to me and then I had to reship. So I paid for shipping 3 times on EACH item. Lets just say that the profits were VERY LOW. Now I double and triple check items before I ship.

Jack, send me some gold coins for free and I'll gladly forward them to Ray.

[beauanderos]

I don't know any of my neighbors phone numbers... big apartment complex When you're by yourself it makes things tougher. Probably should have driven back from my vacation, but I'd just finished working three months of 14 hr shifts with only Sundays off and had just arrived at my timeshare the day before.

Chris's resolution to this issue just goes to show what a stand-up guy he is... he didn't have to compensate me, but he is obviously a man of high integrity.

All said, by maintaining our own self-policing system (forum feedback) the fees we bypass by avoiding paypal and ebay help make up for setbacks in the long run.

Now then.... it's time for a CONTEST

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24897

[slickeast]

I forgot the most important part. Chris, you do know Ray is older than Yoda. I'm surprised Ray can even find his way to the mailbox.

Side note. Yoda was 900 when he died. Ray is older than that.

[christostock]

I will not replace any more THROWN OUT GOLD
I will not replace any more THROWN OUT GOLD
I will not replace any more THROWN OUT GOLD
I will not replace any more THROWN OUT GOLD
I will not replace any more THROWN OUT GOLD
I will not replace any more THROWN OUT GOLD

Is this considered compensation
OR
Is this considered FREE GOLD

[slickeast]

FOR RAY

I forgot the most important part. Chris, you do know Ray is older than Yoda. I'm surprised Ray can even find his way to the mailbox.

Side note. Yoda was 900 when he died. Ray is older than that.

[68Camaro]

You're both two of my favorite people here. I can't point 100% blame on either party but FWIW I do think the bulk of it lies with you Ray. Definitely not negative feedback time, or even neutral, even if it wasn't Chris, but especially as it was Chris.

I bought a roll of ASEs a couple weeks ago from him on a Saturday (I believe), and then added a couple of 1/10ths (or vice versa, don't recall exactly the order) a day or so later before he could have gotten to the PO. He shipped it the same way. The only thing different (maybe) is that I made the second deal specifically contingent on him shipping them in the same box to combine the shipping charges. When they arrived I did consider how easy it would be to mistake the CD mailer for simple packing - my arm twitched toward the trash can when I was unpacking the box, but I stopped myself and check it - yep, coins in it. In my case it would clearly have been my fault if I had trashed them without checking everything.

[christostock]

That does it.
for the month of July and August, I will start packing in bonuses into any SFR box that I send out.
Here's the catch, You HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT.
Might look like packing, Might look like my trash, Might look like a CD mailer stuck inside the SFR.
I will not tell anyone that these items are in there.
I will also not reveal what these items are

[Grimster]

ooooo a treasure hunt. lol