Creative way to peddle fake silver bars

[Morsecode]

"...to safeguard your real silver in case of robbery..."

http://newhaven.craigslist.org/clt/3874470313.html

[beauanderos]

His reasoning will appeal to some. If they could be had (in small amounts) for as little as $2 apiece I wouldn't mind having a decoy stack of them myself.

[Z00]

Ray, check for his quantity prices, As you say, if the price were low enough, there could be a large market for these.

There would have to be a way to quickly tell these apart from the real thing though. One that would not be too obvious to the average thief.

[beauanderos]

Ray, check for his quantity prices, As you say, if the price were low enough, there could be a large market for these.

There would have to be a way to quickly tell these apart from the real thing though. One that would not be too obvious to the average thief.

I wonder if the plating is thick enough that you could use one of those metal etchers and put a serial number on the back? I guess you could put a peelable label with any number on the back, or something like "if found, please return to ... yada, yada. You know what would be good for identifying your own silver? Obtain some of those iridescent labels that they use on CD's (anti-theft packaging) and cut tiny strips then attach them to the back of your silver. They might not be immediately noticeable to a thief and at least would help with identifying your silver in the event it was attempted to be sold or fenced.

something similar to this, then attach to bars:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KGYXGQ

[Z00]

Good idea.. tamper evident labels with serial numbers! Stick them on the back of the bars.
"certified .999 fAg"

fAg - fake silver LOL

http://www.amazon.com/CUSTOM-PRINTED-HO ... om+sticker

EDIT:
Sent an email asking about bulk pricing.
Response:

How many are you looking for? Also, are there certain designs that you are looking for? I have johnson matthey, scottsdale silver, stagecoach, and many more styles. Also have 10oz engelhard decoys.

[Z00]

Went back at him and asked what was cheapest and where the price breaks were.

25 - 100 bars are $6 each, 101 - 500 bars are $5 each, 501 - 1000 are $4.50 each, 1001 or more bars are $4 each.

He didnt specify what "brand" these were.

Kind of shoots down Ray's price point

[neilgin1]

:thumbdown:

"...to safeguard your real silver in case of robbery..."

http://newhaven.craigslist.org/clt/3874470313.html

and



and

good boy!!!! down.......sssshhhh.



and



plus



finally

The Heart

[beauanderos]

why did you post a picture of kutzy?

[Z00]

Ethics

Now I want to pose this question.

A quick search shows that some of these bars can be had in 500 lots for 1.44/shipped DHL from China.
(Even cheaper in higher qty.)

Is it "ethical" to be selling these at say a 2.50/shipped price with the very clear explanation that they are "replicas" and s/b only used as decoy items?

[Copper Member]

I'll go out on a limb. As long as you do not portray it as something it's not, I don't see a problem.

[ZenOps]

Bad idea. The whole point of money is to be liquid. If a stacker takes a vacation in Hawaii and falls in a volcano, do you really think that the relatives and/or children are going to know that they are fake?

Heck, the vast majority of kids nowadays don't even know the true value of a passed down pre-64 hoard, and will often times simply deposit them in the bank.

When the heirs go to the store to try and sell them, who gets in trouble more, the kids for being stupid, or the bullion dealer who has to break it to them that they are fake?

[Z00]

His reasoning will appeal to some. If they could be had (in small amounts) for as little as $2 apiece I wouldn't mind having a decoy stack of them myself.

Best price I could find on small qty. 30.60/shipped for 10. LOL

[Treetop]

I never understood the idea of having fake silver for thieves. If someone breaks in and finds a fake stash, they will eventually realize it was fake. except now they know there is likely a real stash, and might come back knowing they would have to force you to show them. the only instance I can see it helping is when someone already knows you have silver. give them the fakes instead. I have a different way to handle that I wont divulge in case it was one of you or someone else reading who tried that with me.


The seller is honest though, so I see no issue. although less honest people might buy them, they already could anyway if they were resourceful.

[neilgin1]

why did you post a picture of kutzy?

well....I dunno........coz she's a looker! aint she?

I sure did like the way that thread between you and Chris turned out....just that, is why I love this forum OB.

[neilgin1]

that's why I posted what I did up above....I wouldn't give one red 95% copper to these Chinese counterfeiters....not one.

right now?....when I go to ebay and look at Eagles.....I sometimes get spooked WONDERING....is it real?

me and my brother been thinking about another form of currency....copper piping, the fella that does heating and plumbing was by, and he tells me that copper piping comes in 10 and 20 foot lengths, with three thickness classes, "M" (thinnest) "L" and "Q"....so a 10 foot length of "M" is running around $20-25...sorry to go off topic...i'll go to 'copper' section. just food for thought.

[theo]

I never understood the idea of having fake silver for thieves. If someone breaks in and finds a fake stash, they will eventually realize it was fake. except now they know there is likely a real stash, and might come back knowing they would have to force you to show them. the only instance

True. They could conclude that if you have fake PMs you also have the real thing. However, attempting to rob an already alerted (likely armed) victim a second time involves increased risk. The backyard that was agreeably dark during the initial robbery will be well lit and the door that was easily forced open will be replaced with something more reinforced. The neighbors and local LEOs will be more aware and any valuables will more carefully hidden.

[Z00]

AND......
when the thief tries to cash in at a coin shop or pawn shop.....and the cops have notified them with a list of fake stuff to watch for....the video cameras at these places may well give them a way to be sure it will be a number of years before they are back.
(and you probably moved.)

[ZenOps]

Its folly to assume that all fakes would only be somehow used by theives.

If 5 cent nickels someday returned to their silver equivalent value, then there would be about 3 billion 2% nickels, 2 billion 25% nickels, and 2 billion 99.9% nickels out there. Are all of the 2% owned by theives? Of course not, circulation from normal trade has at least passed them through a minimum of 80,000 hands of different people. And there will be normal trade, even if the bar is passed as genuine even once, just once and its in circulation.

If you got the 2% silver bar, could you blame the person you got it from, or the 79,999 other people before that.

Produced fakes cannot be controlled by an individual anymore than government issued fakes (Canadian debased iron nickels) can be controlled by the government. They can at best, be removed at a loss when discovered.

You also have to add in the repuational factor. I will not deal with anyone, anyone who is known to have purchased fakes (for whatever reason) If all the bars in Fort Knox are plated gold, would you be comfortable dealing with the US? You could be starving - no soup for you if you have fake money!

[Treetop]

Or... the thief figures out they are fake when they try to sell through craiglist or some such. Or he knows you are more prepared for a robbery this time, and comes twice as prepared themselves when/if he comes back to get the real stuff. Perhaps with the though he must hold you at gunpoint to get to the real stash. Unlikely of course, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility. I still see no reason for a dummy stash.

[theo]

Or... the thief figures out they are fake when they try to sell through craiglist or some such. Or he knows you are more prepared for a robbery this time, and comes twice as prepared themselves when/if he comes back to get the real stuff. Perhaps with the though he must hold you at gunpoint to get to the real stash. Unlikely of course, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility. I still see no reason for a dummy stash.

Possibly, but it would take an incredible amount of planning and organization to make up for the loss of surprise.

The benefit of the dummy stash is two-fold:

1. The thief wastes time gathering your dummy stash (which IMHO should be spread out), This is time that could have been spent looking for the real stuff.

2. The more valuables the thief thinks he has, the more likely he'll leave your home sooner rather than later later.

Remember, every additional minute the thief spends in your house increases the chances that your nosy neighbor across the street dials 911 or the old army vet next door decides to see whether his M1 rifle still works (it does).

The dummy stash is not fool proof by any means, but I believe anything that deceives or confuses the enemy works to your advantage.

[Treetop]

Still makes no sense to me. no one will ever find the bulk of my stash. They could have hours and metal detectors. It wont help them much.

It really doesnt take to much planning for said thief, because said thief knows he needs you to show him the real stash. Im sure youve heard many stories of various ways thieves have gotten people to open their doors just enough to get a foot in. Even most armed people dont answer the door that way. the only thing the dummy stash did was show them that level of risk and effort might be warranted. A better dummy stash would be a drawer easily accessible with some nice looking costume jewelry and some cash. Once they know they jewelry was junk, this doesnt hint to them there was anything better, and most everyone has a couple bucks laying around. thieves also have friends, and they tell the wrong person, someone else might think its worthwhile.

To each his or her own, but it seems like it could cause more issues then it could ever help to me.