What is the best form of silver to flip? Part ll

[50centsaver]

This was part one: (Part ll is listed after this next paragraph)

"I have read the logic of: many people ascribe to buying silver now, to wait until the gold/silver ratio decreases, to say 1 to 12, or better, to then sell their silver to buy gold. What is the best form of silver (if any) to purchase now for this purpose? Or doesn't is it matter. I'm guessing it is not junk silver? Maybe American Eagle ounces?"

Thanks for the serious answers, and humorous answers too. Apparently from a few of you, you think generic silver rounds are most "flippable", one of you said American Eagles a close 2nd. Here's the 2nd part of my thinking: It makes logical sense that someday in the future, as the economy gets worse and worse, the more fiat is printed, the more difficult it is for our country to cover even the INTEREST on our debt, the more other countries start turning their backs on the US dollar, that silver and gold WILL shoot up, to even possibly astronomical figures. Here's my question: If people are buying silver now to sell it to buy gold when the silver to gold ratio does decrease, say, to 1 to 12 or less, that by that time the price of gold will be so astronomical too that you'd need a boatload of silver to even buy an once? And maybe even more importantly, so many others will be jumping in to buy PM there won't be any gold or silver to buy???

I'm thinking, buy now silver/some gold for those who can afford it, and ESPECIALLY if it goes way, way down, as some people I read think it may. Prechter thinks gold will eventually go to approx $680 oz, silver approx $8.40 oz, before it begins to make its way to astronomical figures.

I also wonder if the companies/shops selling gold/silver- if it's all part of a big scam? That it's all a big scare tactic to get us to buy PM- for their profit, that however you cut it, we're all screwed, whether we buy PM or not.

I may be (hopefully) wrong on that, but it does cross my mind.
I do see the logic of preserving wealth with PM, especially re a total collapse of the dollar. At least we'll have something.
Just trying to look into the crystal ball here. Again, I think we're all screwed either way. What kind of a crime filled world will it be for us when our system fails. I hope and pray that some smart people will start putting their heads together now to get some plan in place soon to start thinking of ways of what we will have to do to climb out of the hole we are digging for ourselves. Anyone know of anyone/groups that are working on this/have their heads out?

[IdahoCopper]

You do not have to exchange silver for gold when the ratio decreases. You could use the silver to buy anything that reliably, and is a foolproof way of, producing income. Some people might by real estate, apartment blocks, farm land, orchards, etc. Some people might buy a factory. The list of possibles is endless and infinitely debatable. The point is to get through the disaster times with some wealth stored as PMs, then use that wealth to set your family up so they make a living or better.

[50centsaver]

Right, that makes sense and have read that from others here. The initial reason for my ?s re reading that some people ie Mike Maloney from Gold/Silver, a well respected metals person, think that buying silver now to buy gold later is a good idea. Just exploring that. Thanks for the response.

[68Camaro]

The idea of exploiting the GSR has merit. Many of us here are slightly heavier silver than gold for just that reason. I like both, and balance is desirable, but if I'm going to err it will be on the side of heavy in silver just because I believe it is more undervalued, and when/if it catches back up to its long-term ratio then I can convert some (not all) of the silver to gold (which has a significant portability advantage).

[50centsaver]

Right, but don't you think that if/when the ratio gets much less that gold will also be MUCH higher/ require a whole lot of $/silver per oz?

[68Camaro]

$ per ounce doesn't enter into this equation. If 60 oz of silver buys an ounce of gold now, but will buy four toz of gold in the future, then buying silver now and trading up later creates an advantage.

[wheeler_dealer]

There are many different viewpoints expressed by many writers/authors. Mike Maloney, well a good presenter is also selling something. In today's world we are bombarded by news from a government regulated media. Many an intelligent man /group has tried to initiate change. They are usually overwhelmed by more powerful groups. The U.S. dollar (paper ) is ingrained into human Psyche. We (hard money ) advocates are a minority.
As 68 camaro mentioned diversification into p.m.s is good for transportation of wealth. During any crisis, the last thing you want is to bring to any attention to yourself. Especially flashing p.m.'s.
Generic rounds are a commodity (silver), taxable as capital gains. In a post dollar world (paper) , people will want something recognizable to exchange. While food and water will be most in demand. IMO U.S. coinage will still be used. 90% silver coinage should allow someone a trade advantage.
While hopeful for the future of our nation we can begin change from within by education of ourselves and family. Knowledge is the tool that will bring us through turbulent times.

[johnbrickner]

This was part one: (Part ll is listed after this next paragraph)

"I have read the logic . . . What kind of a crime filled world will it be for us when our system fails. I hope and pray that some smart people will start putting their heads together now to get some plan in place soon to start thinking of ways of what we will have to do to climb out of the hole we are digging for ourselves. Anyone know of anyone/groups that are working on this/have their heads out?

Yes, there are. I've been hunting them down book by book, reference by reference. Seriously starting about the time I joined this forum. This kind of research dosen't happen over night. I've shared much of what I've found (mostly about the collapse decline of the Empire). And have recently started finding the references to the "anyone/groups that are working on this/have their heads out". I will continue to forward important information as I find it.

The key is local organizing. Making things happen at the grass roots level. It will be communities that survive. Start building your communities' survive and thrive skills and talents now.

[50centsaver]

68camaro writes: per ounce doesn't enter into this equation. If 60 oz of silver buys an ounce of gold now, but will buy four toz of gold in the future, then buying silver now and trading up later creates an advantage.

So for example if gold is $20,000 oz, divided by 12 is $1,666 per oz of silver,(1 to 12 ratio) I'll then use $20,000 worth of silver at $1,666 an oz (12 oz) to buy an oz of gold? I don't think I'd be much motivated to do that! That's an advantage?
That would feel like the USD would be like toilet paper. How much would a roll of toilet paper cost then?
These scenarios are a bit much for my brain to comprehend.

-and no one has commented- if and when PM get that high I don't think there'll be any gold, or silver for that matter to buy. It would've all been snarfed up by then.

[68Camaro]

I'm not trying to make light of your questions, but you're still not thinking of this from the right framework. First of all, it is gold and silver that are money; FRNs are simply paper - debt instruments. When gold goes "up", it's really FRNs that are going down - gold tends to stay constant.

We're talking about converting silver to gold, so it doesn't matter what the conversion ratio of PM to FRN's is. If gold is 16 trillion per ounce and silver is one trillion per ounce you are still converting 16 oz of silver to one ounce of gold. How many FRNs might be involved doesn't matter.

There will always be gold and silver to be had if you have something of equal value. Value is in the eye of the beholder, but PMs and gold especially tend not to appreciate a lot - again they more or less holds their value over thousands of years. If someone has gold and wants silver, they'll give up their ounce of gold for 16 ounces of silver from someone that has silver and wants gold and agrees to the trade. It's as simple as that.

[Spikeanator6982]

If you buy 61 oz of silver today, thats worth around one oz of gold($1340). If given your scenario gold was 20,000 and silver was 1,666 an oz. The 61 oz of silver you buy today is worth over 5 oz of gold($100,000). If you buy an oz of gold today, given your scenario, you have a oz of gold($20,000). either way you are better off with the metal over paper money, but by looking at ratio, you could be much better off buying silver.

68camaro writes: per ounce doesn't enter into this equation. If 60 oz of silver buys an ounce of gold now, but will buy four toz of gold in the future, then buying silver now and trading up later creates an advantage.

So for example if gold is $20,000 oz, divided by 12 is $1,666 per oz of silver,(1 to 12 ratio) I'll then use $20,000 worth of silver at $1,666 an oz (12 oz) to buy an oz of gold? I don't think I'd be much motivated to do that! That's an advantage?
That would feel like the USD would be like toilet paper. How much would a roll of toilet paper cost then?
These scenarios are a bit much for my brain to comprehend.

-and no one has commented- if and when PM get that high I don't think there'll be any gold, or silver for that matter to buy. It would've all been snarfed up by then.

[50centsaver]

I think I understand everything everyone's said, don't necessarily agree with everything, but that's OK. We each have a nose, an opinion.

From what I've read on and outside this forum, gold and silver may/will go astronomical someday. But it is said there will be a time when the PM bubble will pop, when supposedly a new paradigm will begin, and metals will head down. Who knows if a new economy will be backed by gold/silver or not. It's needed and makes sense to me, but who knows. It's got to be backed by something. Tomatoes?

The thing that started me thinking about starting this thread is when I read that some think it good to buy silver now to buy gold later re the ratio reaching 1 to 12 or less.
If this all happens in my lifetime, which I think it will (how interesting to go thru that, and probably terrible too- I'm 58) I don't see me buying gold at astronomical prices with silver I've purchased now. Like someone mentioned I'd flip it for something like land, ect, before the PM bubble bursts. I know, no one has a crystal ball, and we all have to decide when high is high enough to sell. But IMO why buy gold, or silver too when it is so high when most likely it will head down. It would seem there will be a point when it would be a good idea to dump most or all our PM when the prices are astronomical, before the bubble bursts?- to get out while the gettin' is good, or good enough.
To me, I guess it will depend on when that ratio reaches 1 to 12 or less, will the prices be high enough for me to dump. Will depend on many things- shape of the economy, price of food, gas, etc. Other than wealth preservation, the intention is to eventually get something out of it other than an insurance policy right? All food for thought.

By the way, I highly respect Mike Maloney, and all honest people in the businesses of selling PM. They earn their money! To always live with the threat of their businesses being broken into, and all the monkey business they have to deal with, price fluctuations, no metals at times available to sell, ignorance, etc. again they earn their money.
I appreciate the free, enlightening info that Mike Maloney shares. Of course he is trying to make money- good for him. I wish him the best. He is one of many who is trying to get people's heads out of the sand. David Morgan too, many others.

As you can tell, I personally am not an economy genius. But I am a metals person. At least I get the logic of PM, and have invested some of my earnings over the last several years into silver, a little gold, nickels, pennies, and I even like picking up free money laying around- aluminum cans. Metal is money. I find it odd I cannot get others in my life- my family and friends to see this logic as well. Like we all know, we're the 1%.
I thank the wise men on this forum for being patient with a student like me. You are very kind to share your wisdom.

[johnbrickner]

From what I've read on and outside this forum, gold and silver may/will go astronomical someday. But it is said there will be a time when the PM bubble will pop, when supposedly a new paradigm will begin, and metals will head down. Who knows if a new economy will be backed by gold/silver or not. It's needed and makes sense to me, but who knows. It's got to be backed by something. Tomatoes?

You can't eat silver (or any PMs). Diversifying into heirloom seeds (and all that it entails) is not a bad idea.

[68Camaro]

Somehow or another this went from asking for help understanding the GSR trade - which was explained - to an apparent debate about whether or not that trade made sense or was a good one. I don't care whether or not anyone does it. Do it. Don't do it. I don't care.