Anyone want to give me some financial tips?

[Thogey]

3. Don't move out until you have to. When spending $500 - $1000 a month for rent depending on the area, imagine what you can do if you save that money

.

At what point does this occur?

How about, learn self reliance as soon as you can. Be responsible for your own, existence morally and financially. Don't get in the habit of being a mooch.

I say get your ass out on your own and learn to survive as soon as possible.

[justoneguy]

"barrytrot Being married to the correct person is so AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)
Being in business with the correct person or people is so AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)
Having friends you can trust is AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)

+1

[AlexTG]

3. Don't move out until you have to. When spending $500 - $1000 a month for rent depending on the area, imagine what you can do if you save that money

.

At what point does this occur?

How about, learn self reliance as soon as you can. Be responsible for your own, existence morally and financially. Don't get in the habit of being a mooch.

I say get your ass out on your own and learn to survive as soon as possible.

I moved out when I was 18. I don't regret it. But utilizing the resources that are given to you is a key aspect of life. Your parents can be a resource. My mom, as moms tend to do, would LOVE IT if I moved back in with her. So it is not as though you are over staying your welcome when you are invited to stay. If your parents WANT you out. Leave. If they are happy you are still home, stay till you are ready to leave.

It would be like saying, "I don't want any inheritance form my parents that they had intend to give to me. I only want money that I worked hard for. So please just give it all to charity." (If you believe that your a better person than me for sure)

The idea of moving out of the house as soon as possible is a society created norm used to drive housing and rental markets. That doesn't mean the need to have ones on place is not natural. Media campaigns apply their tools to this natural desire to expedite the process.

Solid advice is to buy a house where the mortgage is half of what you can pay so you can pay it off in half the time. By your logic, stop making sound financial decisions and struggle so you can live in that bigger house, or in that nicer neighborhood under a mortgage you can barely afford!

The fact of it all is, if saving and investing money is the goal. Cut all expenses you can to do just that. If you can live somewhere cheaper and still be comfortable. Just Do It. (TM)

Just for musing.

If, by some miracle of my sanity, I was able to live with my parents for the last 8 years. (just typing it out sounds crazy)
I would have saved on average $500 a month. This doesn't mean it cost them $500 a month because they already have the bedroom space and I am paying for my share of the food costs.
I would have saved $48,000. That would mean my Student loan would be paid off and this year I would be buying a house. Instead, I still have years till both will happen.

[Treetop]

I disagree with this and the advice misses the TRUE mark.

Marriage isn't the problem. People are. So find the correct people to be:
a) married too
b) in business with
c) friends with

In all cases the wrong people always doesn't work and the correct people always does.

Being married to the correct person is so AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)
Being in business with the correct person or people is so AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)
Having friends you can trust is AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)

Ive been screwed over by people I thought were the good ones, and were through many things. doesnt matter, it is still worth living. My wife is my best friend also.

[Diggin4copper]

If my son is reading this, move out as soon as possible! Dont listen to these guys!

[68Camaro]

A generally good list. If anyone cares about my comments on it, some notes.

I'll just use (1) as shorthand for "it's a good example of discern between need and desire; choose need, minimize desire"

1. Create a Budget.

Yes! Especially if you've never done one. Eventually budgets become engrained and second-nature and for me I don't often even have to create a literal one any more. Even more important than the budget (to me, now) is keeping track of cash-flow predicatively for 2-3 months out, as an adjunct to balancing my checkbook. But if you've never done a budget going through the sometimes painful exercise can be eye-opening.

2. Create a long term plan or trajectory.

Some say it can be a useful thing. I've never done it myself as a literal concrete set of numbers versus time. I've certainly have set myself some long-term goals, such as certain savings of a certain type by a certain type, never going into debt (or when done, doing it in a conservative and smart way), taking advantage of offers that presume that I'll forget the entrapment they are trying to create, such as using but paying off credit cards monthly, etc.

3. Don't move out until you have to. When spending $500 - $1000 a month for rent depending on the area, imagine what you can do if you save that money.

I understand your point but you've already seen the push-back from your older generation here. If you are super respectful and your parents invite you, and you are taking care for your share (far more than food, includes utilities, paper products, soaps, chores), and you have a specific goal in mind (buying a house, paying off loans, preparing savings for marriage) it can be a good thing. But I've seen far too many bad examples of this from the last two generations, so it has to be done right.

4. Use the Car you have, the new one is not worth it until you have to by one.

(1)

5. Buy Assets not Liabilities, when you can help it. A home is a liability unless you are renting it out, however can be a better way of spending your living expense than renting.

(1)

6. Don't get married until you are at least 25. If ever. Don't have kids till you are 30. If ever.

I sort of agree, but maybe not for the same reasons. I don't think people reach reasonable emotional maturity until mid to late 20s, no matter what they think of themselves. I found that to be true for myself, my children, most of the people I know. However having kids at 30 or later starts to push an upper limit - you don't want them when you are too old either. And kids are one of the best things you can do, if you're in the right place for it in your life and relationship (with caveats for the police state we're starting to see ourselves in).

7. Avoid Debt, you will need credit cards and accounts to build a history. But if you use them pay them off that month

(1)

8. If you work for a company with a 401k, make sure you are getting everything your company will match. Then choose a fund that resembles the S&P as close as possible.

In the distant past I agreed with this and followed it. I've since changed my mind based on our current state. There are many prior posts here about the dangers of assets in paper products. You can choose to disbelieve in that danger, but I suggest you give this a lot of thought and study the cons.

9. Don't bother investing in individual stocks, buy the Market with an S&P tracking fund with super low management overhead. Trying to pick winners in losers leaves you as the loser.

If you're in the market at all, I agree. But see #8. There are select exceptions, but overall S&P tracking is a good idea.

10. Stack, and don't stop.

Agree. PMs are wealth. Not investment, wealth.

11. Absorbed everything you can learn.

Agree.

12. Stick to it! As human beings we get bored. Want to see results, can't wait for our plans to bare fruit. Come to this forum, or some other medium of equal support, and talk to people about whats going on and your struggle to stick to the plan you have laid out. No need to disclose the plan just gripe about hiccups and brag about successes.

Not a bad idea if that works for you.

Another one, regardless of your religious philosophy - even if agnostic or atheist. Read Proverbs. Some of the best wisdom ever is contained in those pages.

Edited for typos.

[AlexTG]

If my son is reading this, move out as soon as possible! Dont listen to these guys!

Example of a parent who wants their kid to leave

And on here, I may be the only person who thinks this is a good idea.

2. Create a long term plan or trajectory.

Some say it can be a useful thing. I've never done it myself as a literal concrete set of numbers versus time. I've certainly have set myself some long-term goals, such as certain savings of a certain type by a certain type, never going into debt (or when done, doing it in a conservative and smart way), taking advantage of offers that presume that I'll forget the entrapment they are trying to create, such as using but paying off credit cards monthly, etc.

3. Don't move out until you have to. When spending $500 - $1000 a month for rent depending on the area, imagine what you can do if you save that money.

I understand your point but you've already seen the push-back from your older generation here. If you are super respectful and your parents invite you, and you are taking care for your share (far more than food, includes utilities, paper products, soaps, chores), and you have a specific goal in mind (buying a house, paying off loans, preparing savings for marriage) it can be a good thing. But I've seen far too many bad examples of this from the last two generations, so it has to be done right.

6. Don't get married until you are at least 25. If ever. Don't have kids till you are 30. If ever.

I sort of agree, but maybe not for the same reasons. I don't think people reach reasonable emotional maturity until mid to late 20s, no matter what they think of themselves. I found that to be true for myself, my children, most of the people I know. However having kids at 30 or later starts to push an upper limit - you don't want them when you are too old either. And kids are one of the best things you can do, if you're in the right place for it in your life and relationship (with caveats for the police state we're starting to see ourselves in).

8. If you work for a company with a 401k, make sure you are getting everything your company will match. Then choose a fund that resembles the S&P as close as possible.

In the distant past I agreed with this and followed it. I've since changed my mind based on our current state. There are many prior posts here about the dangers of assets in paper products. You can choose to disbelieve in that danger, but I suggest you give this a lot of thought and study the cons.

12. Stick to it! As human beings we get bored. Want to see results, can't wait for our plans to bare fruit. Come to this forum, or some other medium of equal support, and talk to people about whats going on and your struggle to stick to the plan you have laid out. No need to disclose the plan just gripe about hiccups and brag about successes.

Not a bad idea if that works for you.

2. I have a new 5 year plan every year. Everyone of them is in the spirit of where I wanted to go just with modifications based on last years results.

3. I knew I would get blow back on here, but what is called "sound financial advice" isn't always sound real life advice.

4. Actually you agree for the same reason I just didn't fully explain myself. I agree because I got married when I was 21 and thought I was "ready". /laugh

8. 5 years ago I said to all my friends that the only way The United States becomes prosperous again for the next decade or two is if globally a cheaper source of abundant energy is found. Although these gas prices now are temporary, something to keep in mind is that other countries are not even close to utilizing fracking in the way that we have. This will lead to a continued energy boom for many years to come. Oil, more than any one natural resources except water, is the driving force in our economy. As long as it is in a decent price range the dollar will remain king and the falling out most of us expect will continue to get delayed.

12. The key here isn't how you stick to what you are attempting to do, but that you do. If today you want to stack PMs, next week you want to trade derivatives, the week after you are going to be a house flipper... You get the point. Being distracted by new shiny objects or ideas will lead you to no where. Realcent posts, or other mediums were more of an example. I only used that because I have seen others on here doing, maybe on unbeknownst to them, the same exact method.

Edited for formatting.

[Engineer]

This may be unpopular advice in many's mind, but it is important to understand.

Marriage 2.0 is a mantrap. In the old days, before 1960, marriage was much more balanced, divorce was difficult, and people tended to stay married, and were shamed for divorcing.

Today, most divorces are filed by women (75%). If your wife is not haaaapy, for any reason, she can divorce you on any whim, take 50% or more of everything you have built and saved, steal your kids, and latch a large claim on your future income for many years. Many women become vindictive and abusive, believing they are absolutely entitled to everything they can wring out of you, via lies, false accusations, and anything else they think they can get away with.

Deciding to marry, or allowing yourself to fall into a common-law marriage, is one of the most critical and financially dangerous things a man can do. It is almost always done while you are out of your proper mind, in love, lust, or other non-composed mental state.

Now for some good news. There is a place where men gather on-line to discuss all of the above. This place has 100,000 men advising each other about women, marriage, reproduction, and sexual strategies. You will not find a more valuable resource to improve yourself physically, mentally, sexually, and legally. Bookmark: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ Then read everything in the right hand sidebar, including all the content it links to. After a few months of intense study, you will understand women, why they are the way they are, and how to successfully deal with them as a real man.

I wish someone has told me about all of the above when I was 15 years old, but in 1972 there was no Internet and nobody, not even women, understood women as they really are.

I disagree with this and the advice misses the TRUE mark.

Marriage isn't the problem. People are. So find the correct people to be:
a) married too
b) in business with
c) friends with

In all cases the wrong people always doesn't work and the correct people always does.

Being married to the correct person is so AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)
Being in business with the correct person or people is so AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)
Having friends you can trust is AMAZING! (Speaking from experience)

I'd ask why relationships can't be AMAZING without the contract where she gets half your stuff.

When you strip away all the emotional BS, marriage is giving control over your relationship to the government for a few perks like not getting taxed at the single rate.

In the days of single income households, it was a useful contract to protect dependent women, but now that most households are dual income there's not as much need for the state to be involved. I'd argue that being guaranteed half of your work product is actually harmful to your significant other because they tend to lose the drive to secure their own future.

[barrytrot]

I'd ask why relationships can't be AMAZING without the contract where she gets half your stuff.

When you strip away all the emotional BS, marriage is giving control over your relationship to the government for a few perks like not getting taxed at the single rate.

In the days of single income households, it was a useful contract to protect dependent women, but now that most households are dual income there's not as much need for the state to be involved. I'd argue that being guaranteed half of your work product is actually harmful to your significant other because they tend to lose the drive to secure their own future.

If both parties are ok without a "contract" that's fine. But if either party is doing so specifically to "protect half of their fortune" my guess is that relationship is doomed to fail.

Unless you enter into a "marriage" (contract or not) with full commitment and for life it is unlikely to succeed.

Is it guaranteed to succeed if you do? No. But, you know what: If you are with the right person for even a short period of time, "it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" is absolutely true.

Money can't buy the "joy" that comes from a great marriage (contract or not).

[Engineer]

If both parties are ok without a "contract" that's fine. But if either party is doing so specifically to "protect half of their fortune" my guess is that relationship is doomed to fail.

I disagree, and think that the automatic 50% split is the reason many marriages fail.

Two people can start a business together where one does 3/4 of the work while the other does 1/4. It's fine as long as their share of the proceeds match the effort, but if the proceeds are split equally, the harder working partner will start looking for greener pastures.

Unless the love of your life has exactly the same work ethic you do, a guaranteed 50:50 split in joint assets will cause tension in your marriage that wouldn't exist if each person was responsible for their own finances.

[Thogey]

My wife is going to get 100%. That's what all wives get in a "successful" marriage. Success occurs when you leave this contract and she pushes your, happily dead, ass into the crematory.

Then your friends head to the bank and ask for new coin deposits.

[Recyclersteve]

Lots of interesting and thought provoking comments on this thread. I wonder if Sully's head is spinning right about now?!?

I would just add the following...think about what you are buying- where will it be ten years from now? If you answer is a landfill, then the item may not be a true necessity. An example is an Apple iPhone- yes they are cool items to have but a cheap flip phone where you pay for minutes that don't expire monthly may be a more efficient purchase.

Think used as well- there is no shame in buying used clothing at a thrift store to save money.

[fansubs_ca]

Today, most divorces are filed by women (75%). If your wife is not haaaapy, for any reason, she can divorce you on any whim, take 50% or more of everything you have built and saved, steal your kids, and latch a large claim on your future income for many years. Many women become vindictive and abusive, believing they are absolutely entitled to everything they can wring out of you, via lies, false accusations, and anything else they think they can get away with.

Deciding to marry, or allowing yourself to fall into a common-law marriage, is one of the most critical and financially dangerous things a man can do. It is almost always done while you are out of your proper mind, in love, lust, or other non-composed mental state.

I disagree with this and the advice misses the TRUE mark.

Marriage isn't the problem. People are. So find the correct people to be:
a) married too
b) in business with
c) friends with

In all cases the wrong people always doesn't work and the correct people always does.

The problem is that people change, what might seem like the correct person today
somewhere down the road turns out to be the wrong person.

Because the _system_ is so rigged against the partner with more initiative, makes
no sense and is completely unpredictable the risk of ending up with the wrong person
because of that (apparently normal and natural) change is far far too great. If the
_system_ made more sense and was more fair the risk would be more managable.

Do follow the link Idahocopper provided, any information people can give you about
their own experiences can help you craft your path through the minefield of life.

For myself based on what I've seen of other's experiences I find that as long as
I follow the 3 guidelines of:
-Do not fornicate
-Do not co-habitate
-Do not procreate
I end up with _way_ less government in my life. Remember that "common law
marriage" pretty much equals "marriage" in the government's eyes, just sneaks
up on you more easily.

While I live in a mostly capitalist environment I know I'm surronded by many who
are enslaved under an insane communistic system that keeps them in collectives.

I do wonder what would happen if enough people did this and the birth rate dropped
a massive amount and a government got desperate to grab for power in some other
way. It probably won't though because I know I'm fighting human nature and most
people aren't willing to do that even if they are aware.

Now that's where we are today. If there were a societal collapse, and global
de-population event and we eventually end up with a more sensible society
amoung the survivors this advice may not be right. But for the system we
are living under now these will be the 3 rules I follow to stay a "free person
of male gender". (I do consider the current system to be a form of slavery.)

Going a bit off-topic here but this does make me wonder why the gays want
to be allowed to marry each other so badly. Looking at the track record that
straight people have had over at least the last few decades I don't see why
they want on that fail-boat.



Thoughts on other topics:

Living with parents:

This one is a tough call, it's really an individual thing. If you get along great
with your parents, they encourage you to take initiative and you are pulling
your weight so the arrangement makes both you and them better off by all
means keep living with them.

However if you don't see the world the way they do, they are a "wet blanket"
that discourages every bit of inititive you take, or you just seem to get on
each other's nerves try to move out as soon as you find it practical to do so.
You might find you are better able to take advantage of opportunities if you
don't have someone looking over your shoulder questioning every little thing.

Work life:

Sullysullinburg, I seem to recall you mentioning you want to go to college at
some point. (Not sure if I'm mixing you up with someone else or not.) What
are you planning to go into? Have you figured out how you'll finance getting
through college? What you'll be doing and where? The less debt you have at
the end of it the better.

Whatever your primary choice is do give consideration to setting up a "plan B",
since you are still just 15 you've probably got a few summers left before the end
of high school that might allow you to take steps towards that.

Do you have any grandparents, aunts, uncles in any kind of a trade that might
seem like it might have an appeal to you? If so now is the time to talk to them
about it find out what you would have to do to get into that line of work and see
if there are steps you can take in terms of courses you can take concurrently to
high school either on the weekend or over summer so you can "hit the ground
running" a bit faster when you turn 18 if you've already gotten some of what you
need to done. Time saved is money saved, maybe also stress saved.

The reason I say to do this now is if plan A doesn't work out and you are in your
mid-20s by the time you are looking at other options those granparents, aunts,
uncles, etc. may be retired or possibly no longer alive by that point so you may
not have someone to guide you or get you in where you have to apprentice. A
lot of trades require practical time but you almost have to know someone to get
in as an aprentice. You could take the community college courses but if you can't
get in your apprenticeship you can't get your license so you can't get hired.

If you know someone who can guide you now you can know going in exactly what
the steps you have to take are rather than finding out after you've already enrolled
in the course.

If you don't know anyone and the economy is bad at the time you start considering
it a lot of people are concerned about "protecting their turf" so it could be hard
to get in when everyone you need help from considers you an outsider. Use any
connection you have and get in before it comes to that.

The only reason I didn't mention parents is if you look at what occupations the
wider family is in the chances of it lining up with something that interests you
and has current potential is greater than if you are just looking at one or two
options. Though exceptions do happen, my eye doctor is the 3rd generation in
the bussiness, that's at the far edge of the bell curve of coincidence though.

Inheritance:

If it comes your way that's all fine but work on the assumption you won't ever
get one. Assume you'll be on your own.

Housing:

My experience (at least when paying cash and not having mortgage interest
to pay) is that the cost of operating a house is less than the cost of renting.
Although multi-unit dwellings can have certain energy efficiency advantages
(due to each unit having fewer surfaces to the outside) that's more than
made up for by not having to pay somebody else's mortgage interest (almost
no landlords own their building free and clear) the wear and tear built into
the price to cover tenants that take care of stuff less than you and move
more often than you, and the mark up of the landlord.

Also if you have your own stand alone house that you own you won't ever be
forced to move because the rent goes up to more than you can afford, the
landlord wants to renovate then raise rent so they have to empty out the
place to do so, a new building owner doesn't like you for whatever reason.
Moving costs money.

Also being a stand alone unit (preferably with some space around it) you
aren't subject to as much risk of fire (dumb ass next door starts one and
it spreads beyond their unit) or bedbugs brought into the building by
annother tenant that spread throughout the whole building and the landlord
won't do anything about it because they are so overleveraged that one
unplanned expense will break them. (Thus you have to move heat treating
all your stuff so the bedbugs don't follow you, even more expensive than
a regular move.)

It may take a while to get there but this is a place you want to get to, a
mortgage free house of your own. Now if I could only get Allodial title...

The only time it makes sense to rent is:
-You don't yet have the capital to buy.
-Odd life circumstances where you _can't_ own things. (Do everything you
can to stay off welfare, it can become a trap.)
-You aren't sure where you want/need to live longer term yet due to
work related reasons.
(Churning from one piece of real estate to annother has transaction costs
so if you have to move enough renting might still work out cheaper.)

Budgeting:

I've never really wrote out a detailed "budget" per se but I have at times
tracked my expenses so I can see where there are places I can fine tune
my spending. Even if you do decide to make a budget you'll invariably
forget something when making it so do track where money is actually going
so you can make that budget realistic.

Cell phones:

I would just add the following...think about what you are buying- where will it be ten years from now? If you answer is a landfill, then the item may not be a true necessity. An example is an Apple iPhone- yes they are cool items to have but a cheap flip phone where you pay for minutes that don't expire monthly may be a more efficient purchase.

I agree with the comment about a cheaper phone (mine is about 12 years old) but I
have differing thoughts on the phone plan. I choose to get the unlimited talk time
plan so I can use it just like a home phone, if I get or make a call I don't want to
have to worry about how long it goes on. I don't typically use it heavily but you never
know when that odd month will happen so I choose to pay a bit more on a regular basis
than risk a month where the bill is crazy huge! Or be too afraid to use it making it not
worth having at all. Predictability is sometimes better than the absolute lowest cost,
or at least what might seem like the absolute lowest cost. (I'm one of the people
that refused to buy myself a cell phone until the unlimited plans became available!)

Also I have never sent any electronics to a landfill!
(Which is why I can still help anyone that needs to get some files off of a ZIP drive...
or a 5 1/4 inch floppy...or a Commodore datasette tape. )

Health:

Take care of yourself, being sick is expensive.

If you are working somewhere new and something doesn't look like it makes sense
check with with a manager or a more experienced co-worker to see if there is a
better way to do what needs to be done. (That big heavy thing maybe really isn't
supposed to go on that high shelf, that's just where the tag goes directing to the
real location in the warehouse where it's kept.) If you get a back injury there are
(usually) things that can be done for you to manage it but you are way better off
not getting hurt in the first place avoiding an ongoing expense and avoiding being
tied down to a treatment schedule. (Sometimes you don't feel the full effects until
years later.) Work Safe!

If you are going to the gym, keep doing it! Even if you are busy, find a way to
fit it in! That extra strength will help you when you need it.

More worklife:

If you ever find yourself working 2 jobs, even if one seems way better than the other
it may still pay to keep both. Jobs can change just like people can change. Sometimes
jobs even disappear. The process of getting a job seems to also get progressively
harder as decision making becomes more and more centralized in the world of
mega-corps. You don't know what the future holds so hedge your bets

Very General:

-Spend less than you make
-Keep stacking!

[DaMangRon]

Buy PM's! Also, if you're into stocks it's a great time for energy and pharmaceutical stocks.