40% or 90% Halves?

[amalekidad]

Here is another way to look at it. A year ago I bought a roll of 40% silver for $50, today the same roll sells for $100.

[exbingoaddict]

Here is another way to look at it. A year ago I bought a roll of 40% silver for $50, today the same roll sells for $100.

Rising tide lifts all boats.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

exbingoaddict,what i understand for CRAP HITTING THE FAN is when there would be a total collapse of the dollar and replaced with another fiat currency or perhaps merging the dollar with other countries. Silver and gold always retain their value. Silver can and is used today in exchange for goods and services. My father has done lots of side jobs where he has been paid in silver with no worries of selling the silver for FRN when needed to.

Mr18, so you're thoughts are is silver is an alternate to the FRN? Ok, I can buy that, I'll give that thumbs up.

There's a pet peeve I have when people throw around the "SHTF" talk. If they mean we're going to have a collapse of civilization, then metal is worthless. It's survival mode, you can't drink gold. You need water, food, shetler, and weapons. I'd rather have the canned fruit then all the silver in the world. In the fallout shelter, the man with the can opener is King.

Now if we're talking inflation hits and dollars keep lowering in value, that I can see. What is the point you seem to be making. US Dollars become more worthless and gold and silver retain value compared to the FRN.

As it has been said earlier in this thread, there are an infinite scenarios in TSHTF catagory. Hurricane Katrina is a good example. It was almost a complete breakdown in societal order, but then things got better. People rebuilt. It is just as important to plan for the day, month and year after TSHTF as it is the singular event itself. During the rebuild, PM's will be very useful, IMHO. Our Founding Fathers experienced a most horrible hyperinflation and collapse of the Continental Dollar. They got through it. Then they established a currency based on gold, silver, copper.

During TSHTF, silver is very important to sanitize water. It is a very powerful anti-microbial. Drop a few Ag dimes into a canteen and the water stays fresh & drinkable for a very long time. From the Romans forward, Ag has been used to keep drinking water safe. Navies use it on board ships to this very day.

Silver-nitrate is a powerful topical ointment for both bacterial and fungicidal infections. Even just bandaging silver coins against a wound will help it to heal. In a SHTF scenario, it's better than nothing.

Silver eating utensils, cups and plates are also very important to have in a less than sanitary environments to keep down ingesting "no-see-ums". Even plated silver will be far better to eat off of than anything else. Old plated silverware and hollow-ware are cheap at garage sales.

Silver is even a good spermicide. In the 1800's prostitutes would insert silver dollars like diaphragms are used today. It worked (from what I hear ) Saaaay, that reminds me of how men & women in my grandpa's generation would never allow themselves to be without at least one silver dollar on their person.... Hmmmm... I wonder...

That's all I can think of right now. I feel like Forrest Gump's buddy, Bubba.... "there's boiled shrimp, fried shrimp, baked shrimp, barbecued shrimp, shrimp gumbo, shrimp....... ....."

[Rodebaugh]

exbingoaddict,what i understand for CRAP HITTING THE FAN is when there would be a total collapse of the dollar and replaced with another fiat currency or perhaps merging the dollar with other countries. Silver and gold always retain their value. Silver can and is used today in exchange for goods and services. My father has done lots of side jobs where he has been paid in silver with no worries of selling the silver for FRN when needed to.

It's survival mode, you can't drink gold. You need water, food, shetler, and weapons.

Oh yeah.... http://www.ediblegold.com/

ultra low calories and (insert ingot joke here) benifits

[Rodebaugh]

Silver dollar prophylactics

Talk about a cull quality coin

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

exbingoaddict,what i understand for CRAP HITTING THE FAN is when there would be a total collapse of the dollar and replaced with another fiat currency or perhaps merging the dollar with other countries. Silver and gold always retain their value. Silver can and is used today in exchange for goods and services. My father has done lots of side jobs where he has been paid in silver with no worries of selling the silver for FRN when needed to.

It's survival mode, you can't drink gold. You need water, food, shetler, and weapons.

Oh yeah.... http://www.ediblegold.com/

ultra low calories and (insert ingot joke here) benifits

I am ordering these for my bug-out bag today!

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Silver dollar prophylactics

Talk about a cull quality coin

Yeah! I first heard about it on the History Channel. They told the story of this young call girl who would use the dollars once and then lay them up on her night stand. When the local temperance women came around demanding money... it gave her great satisfaction to drop those coins into the collection plate!

[wagsthadog]

Hi there-

AHEM! Well, I'll see if I can get this thread back on track

The neverending battle between 40% and 90% is something I have struggled with for years. I LIKE all silver and I think 40% should definitely have a small place in your collection, but every time I get 5-10 rolls I always see something in gold or 90% I like and end up selling them.

Someone alluded to a good point- desirability. I personally don't think that the US will ever be in a "Mad Max" type situation barring a historically Earth shattering catastrophe (i.e. Japan) , but I can definitely see higher crime, and a decreased standard of living. Hyperinflation, probably as well. Ok, maybe a little Mad Max-ish, I don't know...

Anyway, what I have been seeing at the coin shows is a real aversion to out of the norm stuff. If it's not ASE's, .999 bullion, or strictly US 90%, nobody was touching it! It's funny cause you'd think with the price being high people would stomp all over each other just for a silver knife handle, but not quite.

So, I have come to this plan of action. Do you have all the 90% and .999 silver you think you will ever need? yes? THEN buy some 40% just to have on the side for fun. If not, I would only buy those two things until I was absolutely sure I had enough for a comfortable collapse. Get your groundwork laid first, Then start buying the silly stuff. Jmo.

wags

[aristobolus]

This is a false dichotomy. If I had a choice today between buying a 40% Kennedy at $3.50 vs. a 90% at 13.50; I would purchase the former. But if both were at melt (the 40% at $5.50), then I think the choice is always the 90%. That is of couse assuming that both are of equal grade; othewise, one would have to factor that in as well. Thus I would take an MS 65 40% Kennedy at spot over a 90% graded VG at melt value.

[mtalbot_ca]

Good read.

I personnally stay with with .999, however did anyone asked a refiner about what were the relative costs of refining a 90% piece vs a 40% piece.... maybe it is all the same to him.

Cheers,

[68Camaro]

The refining cost would be an interesting datapoint. Mabye MH would know. But my belief is that most 90% wouldn't be refined anyway - at least until it turns to a slick - whereas 40% would tend to get refined quickly. Frankly, I would only collect 40% with the view of sending to a refiner, and would be factoring in those costs. So if we can get some data on those costs, I might change my mind and start picking up 40% for melting!

[theo]

i hate that term cant eat gold, well you cant live in a loaf of bread either. with metals you can buy bread, with bread the only thing you can do with it is eat it.

I agree. Has there ever been a period in history where silver and gold did not have value? Even during history's worst times like the Fall of the Roman Empire and the Black Death two things were still true; commerce was being conducted and gold and silver held value.

As to the 90% vs 40% question; like others, I view silver as tradable asset that almost certainly will act as an alt. currency. Except for a few bags of culls, I don't anticipate selling any of my coins/bars to refiners. Having said that I do agree that the 40% coins will have some storage and acceptability issues. I would buy them, but only at a 15% to 20% to spot. . . say $4.50 each at today's prices.

[myfundsarelow]

hello all, in the last week or two i have been selling 90% silver dollars on this forum for $28.00 each you have to read all buy it now ads as the lucky fellow mwembers did and it paid off for them, keep searching P S all my stock of 90% silver is gone for now i have to hunt some more to build up my stock PEACE!! EJH,

[exbingoaddict]

The refining cost would be an interesting datapoint. Mabye MH would know. But my belief is that most 90% wouldn't be refined anyway - at least until it turns to a slick - whereas 40% would tend to get refined quickly. Frankly, I would only collect 40% with the view of sending to a refiner, and would be factoring in those costs. So if we can get some data on those costs, I might change my mind and start picking up 40% for melting!

MH shys away from 40% and War Nickels. But I'll allow him to speak for himself other then that. He doesn't pay me to be his spokesman.

[beauanderos]

Silver dollar prophylactics

Talk about a cull quality coin

Superman has some old used ones for sale... but they've been holed.

[beauanderos]

On the subject of preps, Rich brought up differing SHTF scenarios. I don't care how well-prepped the coastal Japanese were, it did them no good. Their preparations, as well as their precious metals, were washed away. There will always be something you can't prepare for. East coast tsunami due to a cliff fracture from the Canary Islands? Big smoking hole in the ground from Moltenstone National Park erupting? Planet X creating a new ring of asteroids? Colonel Sanders and his seven billion coinhabitants extra crispy from solar flares? Ok, so most of this stuff is not likely to happen, but tell that to those who ARE affected. So are we going to have a Mad Max future? Unlikely, as you would have to first survive hell on earth and its aftermath (roaming bands of biker cannibals) to even get there. So... in my opinion... option B is fairly unlikely. So, option A... inflation, high inflation, hyperinflation. Baked in the cake, highly likely, probable. Silver and other precious metals will preserve your purchasing power and enrich those who were early to the game. Silver is silver, and if you're prepping for A... you tell me who among you has ever sold silver to a smelter? Who cares what the refining costs are? You aren't going to sell to a smelter, you're going to sell (if you do at all) to someone else later to the game, at a profit. As time progresses and silver becomes scarcer, the distaste that some purists (haha) display for 40% will dissipate, and it will sell for closer to melt than it presently does. There's actually a case to be made that 40% will outperform 90% and 999 as it can be purchased at a discount now, but at some point in the future will gain parity with its older brothers. That said, I agree that the best route for most would be to grab your 90% first (it's disappearing), then your 999 (it's still being produced)... and then some 40%. Portfolio = 45:45:10. Buying 40% is a contrarian tactic, just like buying up Canadian 80% before demand increases and reduces any pricing discount, but the risk averse will never enjoy the same profits as those willing to be more daring.

[coppertone]

I can understand why 40% silver is discounted, however, personally I don't mind them and have quite a few of them, all bought at discount. In my mind they have extra SHTF value because they are known, identifiable, familiar quantity, produced by the US gov't. In a scenario when silver is remonetized because of a dollar collapse they should be readily accepatable to the general public. I continue to search for them and buy at discount when I can.

[fullmetalraymond]

please tell me more on the bad 90% investment. you see, i hoard it all, some not to re-sell later since it is for a SHTF type scenerio. but if i want to turn a profit, what would your recommendation be?

Read up the theard. 90% silver would have to be melted and refined to make bullion. If Silver keeps rising, you'll have everybody lined up at refiners doors with Grandma's prized flatware. They'll be in a postion to pay you below spot because they don't need it.

Define the crap hitting the fan for me. What causes it? Why is silver a good buy for it?

That's true indeed, but if that drove the price for silver down, wouldn't it drive it down across the board? What I mean is, wouldn't even the .999 holders have to take a hit as well? Silver's silver after all.

[beauanderos]

please tell me more on the bad 90% investment. you see, i hoard it all, some not to re-sell later since it is for a SHTF type scenerio. but if i want to turn a profit, what would your recommendation be?

Read up the theard. 90% silver would have to be melted and refined to make bullion. If Silver keeps rising, you'll have everybody lined up at refiners doors with Grandma's prized flatware. They'll be in a postion to pay you below spot because they don't need it.

Define the crap hitting the fan for me. What causes it? Why is silver a good buy for it?

That's true indeed, but if that drove the price for silver down, wouldn't it drive it down across the board? What I mean is, wouldn't even the .999 holders have to take a hit as well? Silver's silver after all.

It wouldn't drive it down across the board. These guys are saying that, under those conditions, 40% would be penalized as being difficult to refine, and the smelters would offer less for it percentage wise than they would 90 or 999. What those who predict that the smelters would do this fail to realize that most of the easy to melt silver has been melted. If, as they say, adjusted for inflation $50 equals $125 or more... than just consider during our current run up... if we were to hit $125 in 2011 dollars... how much more silver would be drawn out to be melted. But really? There isn't that much heirloom silver out there anymore. Ever heard of the Treasure Hunters Roadshow? They have been siphoning off silver from desperate sellers for more than ten years already, in excess of a quarter of a billion dollars worth annually.

[exbingoaddict]

During TSHTF, silver is very important to sanitize water. It is a very powerful anti-microbial. Drop a few Ag dimes into a canteen and the water stays fresh & drinkable for a very long time. From the Romans forward, Ag has been used to keep drinking water safe. Navies use it on board ships to this very day.

Silver-nitrate is a powerful topical ointment for both bacterial and fungicidal infections. Even just bandaging silver coins against a wound will help it to heal. In a SHTF scenario, it's better than nothing.

Interesting, have to look into the further.

[exbingoaddict]

It wouldn't drive it down across the board. These guys are saying that, under those conditions, 40% would be penalized as being difficult to refine, and the smelters would offer less for it percentage wise than they would 90 or 999. What those who predict that the smelters would do this fail to realize that most of the easy to melt silver has been melted. If, as they say, adjusted for inflation $50 equals $125 or more... than just consider during our current run up... if we were to hit $125 in 2011 dollars... how much more silver would be drawn out to be melted. But really? There isn't that much heirloom silver out there anymore. Ever heard of the Treasure Hunters Roadshow? They have been siphoning off silver from desperate sellers for more than ten years already, in excess of a quarter of a billion dollars worth annually.

You'd be surprised just how much sterling silver is out there. In some parts of the country you can't swing a cat without hitting some.

[CuNation1]

Bought a roll of 40% last year, but I don't think I'll buy 40% anytime soon, just 90%. If I find it in a roll, that's fine though.

[Mossy]

Read up the theard. 90% silver would have to be melted and refined to make bullion. If Silver keeps rising, you'll have everybody lined up at refiners doors with Grandma's prized flatware. They'll be in a postion to pay you below spot because they don't need it.

That is only a concern if you want to sell "right now" or you are expecting silver to peak. If silver were to stay high, you would be able to get a better price later on, wouldn't (shouldn't) you?

[Mossy]

For me, it's a portability issue, and long term planning issue. If I had a family and a place to stash the silver, I would certainly be in the market for 40%. Actually, if I had a family and a place to stash the coins, I'd probably favor 40%, just for the ability to buy under spot.