Rapture to occur 5/21/2011?

[AGgressive Metal]

It's not a roll of the dice. Being a Christian is a decision. But nobody will do it right, that much we know. The words of the Bible are infallible, it is the rock. It's people who screw it up, usually people who think they are right. There is a lot in the Bible that I don't agree with or think is intolerant or impossible to believe. But, Christians choose to believe. That does not mean you have to listen to other Christians beat you over the head with the Bible. But you should, as a Christian, consider their point of view and see if Christ's words back up the positions. Those people also will fall short of perfection.

Had you been born a Muslim, the Quran would be infallible to you, it would be your rock.

And then he would be wrong.

[Thogey]

It's not a roll of the dice. Being a Christian is a decision. But nobody will do it right, that much we know. The words of the Bible are infallible, it is the rock. It's people who screw it up, usually people who think they are right. There is a lot in the Bible that I don't agree with or think is intolerant or impossible to believe. But, Christians choose to believe. That does not mean you have to listen to other Christians beat you over the head with the Bible. But you should, as a Christian, consider their point of view and see if Christ's words back up the positions. Those people also will fall short of perfection.

Had you been born a Muslim, the Quran would be infallible to you, it would be your rock.

Exactly, unless I DECIDED to believe something else. Don't think that all truth is self-evident, it is far from it.

You don't become Christian by birth, you have to accept the faith as fact. It's a choice, It's all about free-will and the consequences of the choices you make.

[AGgressive Metal]

Yeah I would just add that Christianity is spreading rapidly in China and South Korea and that it is growing underground in the Middle East muslim countries. So its not a birth-determined thing. In the Bible it says that the gospel will be spread to all nations.

[NotABigDeal]

I try not to get involved in religious talk, but I gotta say something. According to what some of you guys say, if you don't believe the bible word for word you are not a Christian? Am I hearing this right? Just wondering....

Deal

[Corsair]

I try not to get involved in religious talk, but I gotta say something. According to what some of you guys say, if you don't believe the bible word for word you are not a Christian? Am I hearing this right? Just wondering....

Deal

That's the way I took it. Or if you don't believe all of the aspects of Christianity, you are not a Christian.

[Neckro]

If the world took the bible word for word, I am glad I wasn't born a female.

[Thogey]

I try not to get involved in religious talk, but I gotta say something. According to what some of you guys say, if you don't believe the bible word for word you are not a Christian? Am I hearing this right? Just wondering....

Deal

I think a Christian is compelled to understand the Bible.

Not just say "We'll this is bull[excrement] so I'll just disregard it."

But why some Christians get so worked up about what others choose to believe is beyond me.

It's your choice on what you wish to believe.

[Thogey]

I try not to get involved in religious talk, but I gotta say something. According to what some of you guys say, if you don't believe the bible word for word you are not a Christian? Am I hearing this right? Just wondering....

Deal

That's the way I took it. Or if you don't believe all of the aspects of Christianity, you are not a Christian.

Why would one choose to be a Christian and not believe the scriptures? There are plenty of religions somebody can 'do'. You can even worship 'mother earth'.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I try not to get involved in religious talk, but I gotta say something. According to what some of you guys say, if you don't believe the bible word for word you are not a Christian? Am I hearing this right? Just wondering....

Deal

That's the way I took it. Or if you don't believe all of the aspects of Christianity, you are not a Christian.

Yes, there are those saying that, but you are the flip side of that argument. You are saying you can wildly believe anything you want. Mix and match as you please and still call yourself a Christian. Your thinking is wrong. It does not work that way. You can call yourself anything you want, but in the end it will only matter what God & Jesus calls you.

Mt. 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Mt. 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Tit 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Pr 30:12 those who are pure in their own eyes and yet are not cleansed of their filth.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Corsair, your argument reminds me of a story about Dr. Robert H. Shuller. Shuller is a famous theologian. One Sunday morning, Dr. Shuller gave a sermon on the perils of claiming to be a Christian yet not walking in obedience to God's will. After the sermon, a lady walked up to him and proceeded to dress him down.

"Dr. Shuller, my god is a loving god. My god would never send a sinner to hell." On and on the lady went about how her god would not do the things Dr. Shuller had just preached about. Dr. Shuller patiently listened to her until she was done and then simply replied: "Yes, Ma'am, but your god does not exist."

[Devil Soundwave]

There are a lot of statements in this thread which could reeeeeally use an adjunct of "in my opinion". You are ALL entitled to your opinions, whether Christian or otherwise. Making a statement that X is not a true Christian because he doesn't do Y or whatever is just a bit silly really. Play nice kidz, it's the Christian thing to do.

Maybe I missed this one DS. There is a lot of good rhetorical give and take, but I didn't read anyone exclaiming someone else was not a Christian. Are you referring to me when I rhetorically asked Corsair if he was a X'n? I did that only after he stated he would be a X'n only under a set of circumstances fitting his logic. My rhetorical comment included that only he and the Lord could decide that. Did I miss something here? I don't know about others, but I am playing as nice as I know how to play.

I was just messing about tbh dude.

That said, examples are:

Roadrunner ~

"I really don't understand how you can claim to be a Christian while at the same time not believing the Bible is God's word and is not infallible. You can't have one without the other." IN MY OPINION.

Sheikh yer Butay ~

"Being a Christian is more than just believing God sent a savior (that is just the beginning). It means being obedient to Christ's teachings." IN MY OPINION.

Etc.

[scrapper2010]

It's not a roll of the dice. Being a Christian is a decision. But nobody will do it right, that much we know. The words of the Bible are infallible, it is the rock. It's people who screw it up, usually people who think they are right. There is a lot in the Bible that I don't agree with or think is intolerant or impossible to believe. But, Christians choose to believe. That does not mean you have to listen to other Christians beat you over the head with the Bible. But you should, as a Christian, consider their point of view and see if Christ's words back up the positions. Those people also will fall short of perfection.

Had you been born a Muslim, the Quran would be infallible to you, it would be your rock.

You don't become Christian by birth, you have to accept the faith as fact.

Well yes at some point in your life you do have to accept it on your own in order to be a Christian. I think what Corsair is saying by this is that statistically it is a fact that yes, you are in fact born into it. The main reason anyone accepts a certain faith to be true is overwhelmingly determined by what they were taught as a child. Or if you came to be a Christian later as an adult, then where you live is overwhelmingly the determining factor on what you accept to be the truth.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I was just messing about tbh dude.

That said, examples are:

Roadrunner ~

"I really don't understand how you can claim to be a Christian while at the same time not believing the Bible is God's word and is not infallible. You can't have one without the other." IN MY OPINION.

Sheikh yer Butay ~

"Being a Christian is more than just believing God sent a savior (that is just the beginning). It means being obedient to Christ's teachings." IN MY OPINION.

Etc.

I am sorry DS. That is NOT my opinion. That is how it is. There are absolutes within the Christian faith. Faith without "works" is dead. Works being acts of faith whereby the believer remains faithful in spite of trials that come their way.

James 2:18 "But someone will say, "you have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe there is a God. Good! Even the demons believe that- and shudder."

A Christian is someone who believes in Christ Jesus, are they not? Well, here is what Christ says about the wise and the foolish.

Matthew 7:24-27 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."


I study from a the Thompson Chain-Reference Bible, New International Version. It is the best translation of the Bible I know of. The translation committee used the oldest sources available, such as the Masoretic Text, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. Find a good translation and truly study it.

This is my last post on this topic. You guys are pushing me into the "You gotta believe every little word camp" because of the stupid stuff being said by the "anything goes camp". You can't fix stupid. Now THAT is just MY OPINION.

[psi]

For all intents and purposes though there really is no single Christian faith. There are all kinds of different churches and sects that obviously have common ground, but the differences between them are also vast. For example there are Christians who believe there is no inconsistency between the Biblical Creation story and evolutionary theory. If God 'creates' something, does that mean that there can't be any understandable mechanism to that act? If there is only one correct interpretation of how God did the creating, what supporting evidence is there of that in the text?

[Roadrunner]

There are a lot of statements in this thread which could reeeeeally use an adjunct of "in my opinion". You are ALL entitled to your opinions, whether Christian or otherwise. Making a statement that X is not a true Christian because he doesn't do Y or whatever is just a bit silly really. Play nice kidz, it's the Christian thing to do.

Maybe I missed this one DS. There is a lot of good rhetorical give and take, but I didn't read anyone exclaiming someone else was not a Christian. Are you referring to me when I rhetorically asked Corsair if he was a X'n? I did that only after he stated he would be a X'n only under a set of circumstances fitting his logic. My rhetorical comment included that only he and the Lord could decide that. Did I miss something here? I don't know about others, but I am playing as nice as I know how to play.

I was just messing about tbh dude.

That said, examples are:

Roadrunner ~

"I really don't understand how you can claim to be a Christian while at the same time not believing the Bible is God's word and is not infallible. You can't have one without the other." IN MY OPINION.

Sheikh yer Butay ~

"Being a Christian is more than just believing God sent a savior (that is just the beginning). It means being obedient to Christ's teachings." IN MY OPINION.

Etc.

I never said anyone here was for sure not a Christian. That is not something I can know. That's between God and the individual. What I said was I didn't understand how someone can claim to be a Christian while not accepting His word. It just doesn't make sense to me. My last statement--"You can't have one without the other" is not just my opinion. It's truth. I would write a longer response but Sheikh seems to have done a good job of that. His response pertains to my post also.

I don't stand by what every "Christian" says. I don't stand by what every pastor says. I do, however, stand by what God says in His word.
Now, I think we should just let this topic be finished or else it could just escalate to an all-out fight and get nasty. We don't want that to happen. I hope and pray that God brings you all closer to Him. No hard feelings.

[scrapper2010]

You can't fix stupid. Now THAT is just MY OPINION.

Speaking of not being able to "fix stupid", did you here Mr. Camping just set a new date for the end of the world? Sometime in October.

[dpwozney]

I thought there was scripture that states something to the effect that no man can predict the moment at which Christ will re-appear?

During the rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17), Jesus comes as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Therefore, God does not employ prophets to prophesy the day or the hour of the rapture.

The coming of the Son of man to earth, as referred to in Matthew 24:30, will not be the Son of man coming as a thief, because of all of the preceding signs in Matthew 24:5-29.

[whatsnext]

How do you define Christian?
Before you can condemn you have to know who is grouped together. Its like calling Japanese the same as Chinese.

Were you raised in the faith?
Did you come to an understanding of "Gods word"?
Are you born again? Without guessing but knowing God is 100% factual, proven by the Holy spirit?

Throughout history people who killed in the name of Christ were not even literate in the belief of Christ.

[Corsair]

How do you define Christian?
Before you can condemn you have to know who is grouped together. Its like calling Japanese the same as Chinese.

Were you raised in the faith?
Did you come to an understanding of "Gods word"?
Are you born again? Without guessing but knowing God is 100% factual, proven by the Holy spirit?

Throughout history people who killed in the name of Christ were not even literate in the belief of Christ.

Impossible. Facts require evidence, of which the Holy Spirit has a knack for leaving little of. No matter how devout you are, it is impossible to know with 100% certainty that God exists, let alone that He is even the God you are praying to.

[Mossy]

I looked up the site and was enjoying it until he gave the length of a cubit as 18 inches. Cubits exist to this very day in carpenters' work. It is 16 inches, not 18. Go to any hardware store and buy a contractors retractable steel tape, like one made by the Stanley Corp. On it you will find every 16 inches is highlighted in red. You know, 16, 32, 48, etc. That is the cubit from long ago and is still used in some carpentry layouts to this very day.

(The number may be equal to a cubit by accident, but the "16, 32, 48..." refers to where the studs go when you are putting up the walls. 48/16=3, 48/18=2.666 Plywood being 48"x96", generally.)

[Thogey]

Corsair,

Hang in there. You're getting close. I remember saying the exact same thing you just wrote.

God exists and I'm 100% sure of it. You need to struggle with the question, honestly, for a long time.

In fact, it is impossible for God not to exist. But you must find the answer to the nagging question. Maybe you should struggle with it for a few more decades. When the truth is revealed to you it is an awesome moment.

In the mean time, faith, should substitute for certainty. The real discovery is a miracle, and I pray all of you will receive clarity in this matter.

Not trying to be cryptic, but it is an individual journey.

Great thread.