Yard Sale Find - 2 bullion bars

[ZigMeister]

Ingot wts would be nice.

Look at the pic...Weights are shown under each bar.

Those photos are blocked on this network and I'm having trouble finding a wireless ISP locally that is accessible using Linux (my personal computers).

One bar weighs 1.396 lbs (634 grams); the other weighs 1.246 lbs (566 grams).

[Mossy]

One bar weighs 1.396 lbs (634 grams); the other weighs 1.246 lbs (566 grams).

Thanks.

[Mossy]

Works out close to 6500Kg per cubic meter. That's between a lot of things, but if the corners of the bricks are rounded, then either tin or zinc sounds likely. (I've tried to melt zinc, it evaporates if it's not under a flux.)

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/volume

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metal ... -d_50.html

Could be zirconium, but that would be an odd thing to find like that.

But, then again, so would a 1,000 ounce "doorstop".

[OneBiteAtATime]

This is so exciting! I keep coming back to the post cause I want to know what they are!

[gojomoso]

cant wait to read what you (hopefully) find out tomorrow!

[ZigMeister]

Based on your rough dimensions, and the average weight of the two, they are not dense enough to be silver. Silver has a density over 10000 kg/m^3, but this stuff is approximately 6000 kg/m^3 (though it could be a higher because of the depressions in the middle). To get a more accurate density, you need to put them in a measuring cup full of water and see how much volume the water rises by. Based on the color and approximate density it is probably tin.

I placed the bar that weighs 1.246 lbs. (566 grams) in a beaker containing 8 oz of water...the water level rose to 11 oz for a displacement of 3 oz. ???

[Mossy]

A displacement of 3 fluid ounces, which is a volume measure, or 0.00008872 cubic meters (use above conversion link). Divide the .566Kg by that and get 6380 Kg per cubic meter.

I don't know what it can be. Babbit or "white metal" looks closest, but that's just what I see on the chart.

[Gamecock]

Approx. size is 3 1/2 inches long x 1 3/4 inches wide and 1 inch thick.

that's what she said

[Delawhere Jack]

If they float in a pond, they're witches, and you should burn them! If they sink, they're silver...

[brian0918]

It could be a combination of multiple metals - one that is higher density, and one lower - e.g. tin and aluminum.

[psi]

So was it 3 fluid oz on the dot or a bit off from that? The more accurate you can get on the volume the better, if there are ml gradations that would be perfect for working out density as g/cc. 1 g/cc (1 g/ml) is the same as 1000 kg/m3 I believe.

[ZigMeister]

So was it 3 fluid oz on the dot or a bit off from that? The more accurate you can get on the volume the better, if there are ml gradations that would be perfect for working out density as g/cc. 1 g/cc (1 g/ml) is the same as 1000 kg/m3 I believe.

It was a very small amount over 3 oz...that's as close as I can get.

[AGgressive Metal]

Take them to the local college chem lab and offer lunch to whoever can solve the mystery!

[Mossy]

Take them to the local college chem lab and offer lunch to whoever can solve the mystery!

LOL

That'd work.

I was going to suggest "free beer", but alcohol makes some chemicals have a stronger effect, and smart chem students avoid it.

[Market Harmony]

You guys are making the poor guy clean his bars over and over... the test of displacement of water is to only be used to verify pure metal for which you already know the specific gravity. Getting volumetric data on a bar of unknown purity will not give you any kind of actionable information.

I have an idea. Send it off to this guy:

Market Harmony LLC
PO Box 13
Natrona Heights, PA 15065-0013

Include $25 for an assay to be done, plus $5 return shipping. A nice hello note might be good, too. That way you will get a complete breakdown of the alloy.

[Lemon Thrower]

OK let me take a stab at this.

Silver has a density of about 10.5 grams per cubic centimeter.

1 ml = 1 cubic centimeter.

You have 1200 grams so if it is silver it should displace (1200/10.49) ml, or 114.4 ml.

You say it displaced 3 fluid ounces, 88.71 ml (recognizing that you did mot measure exactly). It displaced less than it should have, so the metal you have is more dense - about 30% more dense – than silver based on your rough measurement.

Just as a comparison, lead has a density of 11.3 grams per cm3, which gets you to 106.2 ml or about 3.6 fluid ounces.

So its more dense than lead.

If you set up an algebraic equation 1200 grams / ( X – the mystery metal density) = 3 fluid ounces = 3*(29.57 ml per fluid ounce), you can solve for the mystery metal’s density to be approximately 13.5.

Looking at known densities of metals, I’d say its very close to mercury!

Some densities are published here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density

of course, mercury is a liquid at room temperature so I must have made a mistake somewhere.

as a side note, someone (who might be better at math than me) suggested it might be zinc. Zinc is at $1/lb, so if its zinc you overpaid and I withdraw my offer to buy these for $3! lol

[Kurr]

That'd be a lot of amalgam!!!

Doc care to weigh in with your expertise on this alloy, lol?

[brian0918]

You have 1200 grams so if it is silver it should displace (1200/10.49) ml, or 114.4 ml.

You say it displaced 3 fluid ounces, 88.71 ml (recognizing that you did mot measure exactly).

This is where you made your mistake. He said that the 566 gram bar displaced 3 ounces, not that both bars combined displaced that amount.

[68Camaro]

The estimated density of 6.3-6-5 (both calcuated and roughly measured) is well below the densities of silver, lead, gold. It only correlates well with two types of alloys: zinc/aluminum alloys and zirconium alloys. Zirconium is unusual, and when found, it would largely available in wrought plate, not cast bar; as previously noted (while I happen to have a piece of a type of it), the odds of these being cast zirconium are slim to none.

A materials database I have access to suggests it to be one of several zinc/aluminum alloys. As an example:

ASTM Standard B791-88: Alloy ZA-8 (UNS Z35636)
Composition: Zn/8-8.8Al/.8-1.3Cu/.015-.03Mg/<.075Fe/<.006Pb/<.006Cd/<.003Sn
Density: 6250 to 6350 kg/m^3

[Lemon Thrower]

You have 1200 grams so if it is silver it should displace (1200/10.49) ml, or 114.4 ml.

You say it displaced 3 fluid ounces, 88.71 ml (recognizing that you did mot measure exactly).

This is where you made your mistake. He said that the 566 gram bar displaced 3 ounces, not that both bars combined displaced that amount.

Thanks! that was bugging me.

if it was pure zinc, it should have displaced 2.74 fluid ounces, which is within 10% of his rough estimate so that's my guess.

how funny would that be if it turns out that someone sold their pure zinc bullion to a copper hoarder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hades12]

My yard can shoot it. see if yours can.

[avidbrandy]

Like all the other people here, I have done the research, and narrowed it down to one of the following:

Silver, aluminum, zinc, iron, platinum, nickel, gallium, steel, Iridium, Tantulum, Tungsten, Rhenium, Zirconium, Palladium, Lithium, Molybdenum, Cadmium, Caesium, Rubidium, Cobalt, Beryllium, Magnesium, Calcium, Strontium, Barium, Radium, Scandium, Titanium, Vanadium, Chromium, Manganese, yttrium, Niobium, Technetium, Ruthenium, Rhodium, Hafnium, Osmium,

It could also be some combination of the above (educated) guesses.

I think there's a small, unlikely chance it is mercury or copper (white copper of course), maybe even white gold.

[Thogey]

A friend just got a submission rejected from a refiner. They melted his stuff down and returned to him a lump of metal that looks like the 'bars' pictured.

He also received and assay report saying the metal chunk was 14% Ag and the rest Cu.

Yours could be somthing like that. The water displacement test won't work if it's an alloy. But you can rule out if it's .99999.

[cesariojpn]

Like all the other people here, I have done the research, and narrowed it down to one of the following:

Silver, aluminum, zinc, iron, platinum, nickel, gallium, steel, Iridium, Tantulum, Tungsten, Rhenium, Zirconium, Palladium, Lithium, Molybdenum, Cadmium, Caesium, Rubidium, Cobalt, Beryllium, Magnesium, Calcium, Strontium, Barium, Radium, Scandium, Titanium, Vanadium, Chromium, Manganese, yttrium, Niobium, Technetium, Ruthenium, Rhodium, Hafnium, Osmium,

It could also be some combination of the above (educated) guesses.

I think there's a small, unlikely chance it is mercury or copper (white copper of course), maybe even white gold.

Oh come on, with CSI-like results nowadays, that list should be down to like 5 metals, a full complete metallurgical breakdown, with a clear blow-up of the license plate of the serial killer involved in melting down the jewelry of the prostitutes he's been killing.

[avidbrandy]

Like all the other people here, I have done the research, and narrowed it down to one of the following:

Silver, aluminum, zinc, iron, platinum, nickel, gallium, steel, Iridium, Tantulum, Tungsten, Rhenium, Zirconium, Palladium, Lithium, Molybdenum, Cadmium, Caesium, Rubidium, Cobalt, Beryllium, Magnesium, Calcium, Strontium, Barium, Radium, Scandium, Titanium, Vanadium, Chromium, Manganese, yttrium, Niobium, Technetium, Ruthenium, Rhodium, Hafnium, Osmium,

It could also be some combination of the above (educated) guesses.

I think there's a small, unlikely chance it is mercury or copper (white copper of course), maybe even white gold.

Oh come on, with CSI-like results nowadays, that list should be down to like 5 metals, a full complete metallurgical breakdown, with a clear blow-up of the license plate of the serial killer involved in melting down the jewelry of the prostitutes he's been killing.

I like that last bit that's good stuff.