Hardest Question - Time to pull the Trigger??

[shinnosuke]

The question is, is it time to act in prep to the signs of the disaster, or shall I let the normalcy bias rule my actions instead?

I get it. I know where you are and I struggle with this very question all the time. I believe we are looking at years rather than decades - and likely months rather than years.

I found myself yelling at my son, my precious boy about something that "cost money" that he was wasting. Shampoo I think it was. Half a freakin bottle at a time - don't get me going.... but my bride came in to stop the situation - I'm scared of what's coming because I don't believe I have the time or $ to be completely prepared. In my twisted mind the wasted product could have been better spent on provisions, which is true, but I was letting my fear cause me to act in ways that I don't want to act.

This was about 8 or 9 months ago. And I'm not talking about scolding.... I mean red-faced, spit flying, vein-bulging YELLING at the boy over some silly soap. I saw myself in the mirror and was ashamed. I don't want to be remembered by my son as he saw me that night. And it was because of my damned paranoia in regards to the macro-economy which I have no control over whatsoever. I'm not saying you are letting fear cause you to act in ways you normally wouldn't. I believe you are asking a VERY SMART question here.

God, if you guys could look inside my mind - I'm not saying that you are Idaho, But I know I AM SCARED AS HELL! I am doing all I believe I can do short of flipping the desk over.

For me. It isn't time yet. It may be for you. For me it isn't time yet. As that time approaches, and more and more people begin casting off normalcy, that has to have a snowball effect of some sort. This is rambly and I hope you don't think I was attacking last night - just giving my perspective. It's been a hard half-decade for the OneBite household.

..........the cursor has been blinking for 20 minutes now.... maybe I'll just hit the Submit button.

OneBite, I want you to know that you are not alone. I believe in God, in Jesus as our Savior, and I believe in the next life. However, I am scared. I struggle to keep the right perspective. Got to remember that faith and fear cannot dwell in the same heart and so I fluctuate between them. However, I am also doing all I can to get my family ready. The last (next?) thing to be done is a secure retreat. I have been getting suggestions from trusted folks. Got to figure something out. I really respect you for writing what you did.

Idaho, it is easy to commiserate with you. I would only plead with you to explore all the alternatives before you make your decision. It's easy to be jaded when the deck is stacked against us. The governmental/insider/corporate abuse is humiliating and enslaving and maddening. Why not stick it to 'em? But I go back to the first line in my response above. [I believe in God.] He may have a better idea than I can come up with on my own.

[VWBEAMER]

In my opinion, strategic defaults are not moral. You made a commitment, a promise when signed the mortgage.

[IdahoCopper]

just remember the other day, when you said you knew of 500 offerings in the Redoubt, and thought that was pretty neat, coz we gotta Raymundo over there.l

Neil - - I think you may have misunderstood my intent with what I wrote there.

What I meant is there are more than 500 places in the country/world where a RealCent Redoubt could be established. I then went on to describe my town, Twin Falls Idaho, and why it might be a good location. I finished that post saying I'd be glad to help RealCenters to collaborate establishing a large farm, or Redoubt in my area.

But now I fear that my own posts in this thread, have sullied my reputation in the minds of many good people, so I doubt if my suggestion for an Southern Idaho Redoubt will come about. It would be interesting to read more location suggestions in that thread.... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7266

[IdahoCopper]

just remember the other day, when you said you knew of 500 offerings in the Redoubt, and thought that was pretty neat, coz we gotta Raymundo over there.l

Neil - - I think you may have misunderstood my intent with what I wrote there.

What I meant is there are more than 500 places in the country/world where a RealCent Redoubt could be established. I then went on to describe my town, Twin Falls Idaho, and why it might be a good location. I finished that post saying I'd be glad to help RealCenters to collaborate establishing a large farm, or Redoubt in my area.

But now I fear that my own posts in this thread, have sullied my reputation in the minds of many good people, so I doubt if my suggestion for an Southern Idaho Redoubt will come about. It would be interesting to read more location suggestions in that thread.... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7266

And by the way - - I've got two houses for sale here in Twin Falls - - - LOL!! Asking prices: what I owe, plus closing costs.

2 bed - 1 bath = about $95,000
5 bed - 2 bath - 2 kitchens ( presently split as a duplex = about $136,000

[neilgin1]

Idaho,
you have not sullied your reputation in my eyes...at all, because i will never judge another man, nor esteem myself above other men, because i am more than aware of the latent wickedness in my own heart, and because i read high and holy words, that i must esteem others above myself, and then let these words burn into my own heart...so no, you are okay by me, Idaho..more than okay.

in fact here's a song for you called "More Than Fine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBsDC2jqwMg

enjoy, i knew what you meant by the "500".....unless RC'er's had a convention, such a retreat would not be possible, coz you ahve to look into a fellers eye to determine the heart, and on this limited venue, that aint possible, back to mowing, neil

[theo]

just remember the other day, when you said you knew of 500 offerings in the Redoubt, and thought that was pretty neat, coz we gotta Raymundo over there.l

Neil - - I think you may have misunderstood my intent with what I wrote there.

What I meant is there are more than 500 places in the country/world where a RealCent Redoubt could be established. I then went on to describe my town, Twin Falls Idaho, and why it might be a good location. I finished that post saying I'd be glad to help RealCenters to collaborate establishing a large farm, or Redoubt in my area.

But now I fear that my own posts in this thread, have sullied my reputation in the minds of many good people, so I doubt if my suggestion for an Southern Idaho Redoubt will come about. It would be interesting to read more location suggestions in that thread.... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7266

Don't worry about it. You started this thread to get our opinions; and although some of us have strong feelings on the subject, I feel this discussion really added something to the forum. You did a good thing. Our current situation has done a number on me as well. The other day I had a strong disagreement with someone at work. Just for a moment I thought, "Why should I worry about him. He'll be standing in a government soup line this time next year." How's that for a terrible thought?

BTW Twin Falls sounds like a great place to live.

[IdahoCopper]

Thank you, Neil and Theo.....

[IdahoCopper]

i also can understand Idaho's dilema, and i do believe, Barry, that he is a man of integrity, after reading many of his posts. i dont believe he would even contemplate such, if his back, his very survival was pushed agaisnt the wall. Some guys aint built to be victims, and it seems to me he is not one of them, a "victim". My feeling is, if Idaho thought he could REASON with the bankers, and reconfigure a do able solution,. he would....but some of the banks and bankers have proven to be so uncaring, so greedy, so myopic, it would be an exercise in futility to reason with them...BECAUSE THEY JUST DONT CARE...thats what its come down to, all of it, leadership, all the institutions we were taught to respect, have proven themselves, UNWORTHY of such respect, by their actions. Its like the Book of Judges, "every man saw to do as he saw fit" (i'm parapharsing, correct me if i'm wrong)...and thats a tragic place to be.

Friday afternoon I did call the bank on the property with the adjustable mortgage. I asked them if they could reset the ARM four months early, before the the rates go up. The phone wonk said, "No way, we cannot change the terms of the mortgage agreement." I did not tell him that the alternative to an increase was my default, because, They Just Don't Give a F**king Damn.

So, if on 01 Nov 11, if the 6-month LIBOR is more than 5.125%, my payment will go up. If it is less, the payment will go down. All I know is I have $1800 today that I can pay, or not pay to the mortgages. (if I don't pay, it is available to spend for Ag in the "Buy it now" section here)

I think I will wait until 05 Aug to decide...... that's the last day to pay the mortgages without penalty. Maybe by then Congress' actions will have clarified things, one way or the other.

[VWBEAMER]

If you can look in the mirror and like what you see, than that is all that matters.

i just know I pay all my debts. You bought the houses hoping to make money and when that didn't work, you want to justify not paying your debts by making the bank the bad guy.

I like these threads though, it tells me who not trade with in the buy it now section.

[Thogey]

If you can look in the mirror and like what you see, than that is all that matters.

i just know I pay all my debts. You bought the houses hoping to make money and when that didn't work, you want to justify not paying your debts by making the bank the bad guy.

I like these threads though, it tells me who not trade with in the buy it now section.

Bully!

Guess who is FORCED to pay off the defaults?

It's up to those of us who DECIDE to pay our bills to balance this out.

On the other hand. The gubmint should just let the banks eat it. Then there will be no speculative borrowing, except with big margins.

I'll pay my debts too, VW. We will see who comes out good at the end.

[GA-Silver]

I feel no pity for any bank or insurance company. Those on this thread are slamming you for fdefaulting on your loans, but don't say a Damn thing about the corporate welfare the these money changers get in the form of bailout monies for the government. I say do what is best for you and your family........

[IdahoCopper]

I feel no pity for any bank or insurance company. Those on this thread are slamming you for fdefaulting on your loans, but don't say a Damn thing about the corporate welfare the these money changers get in the form of bailout monies for the government. I say do what is best for you and your family........

Actually, they are slamming me for even thinking about defaulting the mortgages............ I haven't defaulted yet. So far, a never-late payment history on those loans.

[68Camaro]

These are unusual times.

First, this specific thread is starting to get intensely personal, so I'm not going to give my personal opinion of your specific options or actions on the forum. If you want to engage in a PM, that's fine.

Borrowing money boils down to basics. This is what is happening all across the country. Someone pledges collatoral (a house/property) in return for a loan. The two are, in many respects, separated. Once the deal is signed, they are semi-disconnected. If the house goes up in value was the borrower going to give the bank back the extra? No? Hmmm. So if the house goes down in value should the borrower expect the bank to suck up the difference "lost"? Hmmm.

Can other things get in the way? Maybe, but that is very situational, and I'm not going to get into that here. I've personally witnessed banks negotiate in bad faith (and I'm not talking about what they might be doing elsewhere, but on a specific contract), which starts to change my views a bit as to options. And I have (we all have) also seen the government step in and create policies that actually encourage further bad faith negotiations on the part of the banks.

But I will add two things, for what they are worth. 1) Regardless of all the above, I personally sucked up a $300K loss last year in selling my last house in order to keep my sense of self-respect and honor. To a large extent I was fortunate to be able to make that decision with the result only being pain, not total bankruptcy, so I can't say that I was in your shoes, just noting the fact. 2) I just counseled one of my best young employees, who came to me in distress after following recommendations from friends, family, and lawyers and had started a "strategic default" because he and his new wife were $100K underwater on a property that wasn't worth $100K. He disclosed this as required to security, and they then told him he was likely to lose his clearance as a result. He was panicked at our meeting. We went through the situation, and I realized at that point that it was not irreversible, so he decided to pay-up and continue on, keeping both his clearance and his reputation for keeping his word. I am proud of him for that.

[TXBullion]

i also can understand Idaho's dilema, and i do believe, Barry, that he is a man of integrity, after reading many of his posts. i dont believe he would even contemplate such, if his back, his very survival was pushed agaisnt the wall. Some guys aint built to be victims, and it seems to me he is not one of them, a "victim". My feeling is, if Idaho thought he could REASON with the bankers, and reconfigure a do able solution,. he would....but some of the banks and bankers have proven to be so uncaring, so greedy, so myopic, it would be an exercise in futility to reason with them...BECAUSE THEY JUST DONT CARE...thats what its come down to, all of it, leadership, all the institutions we were taught to respect, have proven themselves, UNWORTHY of such respect, by their actions. Its like the Book of Judges, "every man saw to do as he saw fit" (i'm parapharsing, correct me if i'm wrong)...and thats a tragic place to be.

Friday afternoon I did call the bank on the property with the adjustable mortgage. I asked them if they could reset the ARM four months early, before the the rates go up. The phone wonk said, "No way, we cannot change the terms of the mortgage agreement." I did not tell him that the alternative to an increase was my default, because, They Just Don't Give a F**king Damn.

So, if on 01 Nov 11, if the 6-month LIBOR is more than 5.125%, my payment will go up. If it is less, the payment will go down. All I know is I have $1800 today that I can pay, or not pay to the mortgages. (if I don't pay, it is available to spend for Ag in the "Buy it now" section here)

I think I will wait until 05 Aug to decide...... that's the last day to pay the mortgages without penalty. Maybe by then Congress' actions will have clarified things, one way or the other.

http://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest- ... libor.aspx


Looking at the current rate, and disregarding any sudden changes in rates, wouldn't it appear that your payment is going to drop?

[IdahoCopper]

Its possible, but if the USA credit rating goes down to AA, the interest rates could really spike. That's not the correct page, this is: http://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest- ... libor.aspx

Also see the historical data for the 6-month LIBOR: http://www.moneycafe.com/library/6monthlibor.htm

[SoFa]

You bought overpriced houses during the real estate bubble that you can no longer afford. So to fix that you're going to steal from the evil bank that loaned the money and buy precious metals near their all time highs?

[IdahoCopper]

You bought overpriced houses during the real estate bubble that you can no longer afford. So to fix that you're going to steal from the evil bank that loaned the money and buy precious metals near their all time highs?

Not at all. I can afford to continue paying the mortgages for now, so long as I have renters. If the reset goes up, it is limited to a 2-point increase every 6 months. The 2-points equal about $100 per month payment increase. Right now, the house is short $115 per month rent/mortgage with its interest-only payments. At the November reset it could be as much as $225 short. At the May 2012 reset, it could be as much as $350 short. At the November 2012 reset it could be as much as $480 short. And no, I can't raise the rents, because there are too many cheaper places for the renters to move to.

Of course the rate >could< go down at any of those resets. I don't have a crystal ball, and neither does anyone else here have one.

What this thread is about is the question of when is it time to pull the plug? The two rental houses have payments of $1800 per month. Instead of paying that each month, is it now the time to conserve that money, and let the perfectly acceptable default provisions of the mortgages kick in? After all, the banks wrote the contracts with the default scenario included, so why not go that route? The cost of that route is a damaged credit score. If the SHTF, I'm not planning on wasting much time fretting over a low credit score, I'll have more important things to fret about. like food, water, silver and lead.

But instead of answering the question, many people here turned the question into a morality play. This is not so much about morals, its about increasing the chance of family survival; and the question is, when do you decide to pull out all the stops and do what is required to survive?

[neilgin1]

But instead of answering the question, many people here turned the question into a morality play. This is not so much about morals, its about increasing the chance of family survival; and the question is, when do you decide to pull out all the stops and do what is required to survive?

NOW......this very second......"morality"....i just love when folks start lecturing other folks about 'morality'.

there's a recent thread, about selling "unsearched" rolls of halves on Ebay, with the "possible" silver cavaet attached and guys are over there, hooraying the whole seamy lil practice, which i think sucks....."morality".

if you read the Book of Job, his three "friends" attempt to "comfort" him, and then wind up bashing him with morality and their vain brittle religiousity, salted with a thin veener of morality. You look at King David,...he had Saul, who was coming to murder him, and David HAD him, asleep, could of slit his throat, but would not touch God's annointed, even though Saul was a disaster and intent on killing him, yet David showed him mercy...thats moral, but then David, later, stayed in the City, while his guys were waging war, sights a naked Baathsheba bathing on a rooftop, sends for her, has her, she gets pregnant, so David whacks Uriah, one of his top guys, the priest Nathan later confronts him, to his credit David immediately acknowledges his sin (and writes Psalm 51, which imo is the Mountaintop of ALL the Psalms)....but David DOES pay for this sin...the baby dies, and later his son Absalom does a nutty, etc...

POINT IS, you do what you gotta do, IF you done did sin, God's going to let you know, but in the meantime, if this thing is going to drag you down, imperil you financially, dump it NOW, dont even think twice, and maybe a cyber chat forum isnt the place to be transparent...face to face with a trusted brother is.....or seek the LORD and ask Him, if indeed you follow Him..i dont know.

these men offered advice based on their hearts leading and thats okay..and i offered mine...heck, i just bought my lil hobbitt hole in May...my first bought property, so i dont know all that much about the ins and outs of property dealins and defaults....i KEEP this Land, God willing. But start NOW, time is short.

[SoFa]

What this thread is about is the question of when is it time to pull the plug? The two rental houses have payments of $1800 per month. Instead of paying that each month, is it now the time to conserve that money, and let the perfectly acceptable default provisions of the mortgages kick in? After all, the banks wrote the contracts with the default scenario included, so why not go that route?

Oh I didn't know about that.

If your mortgage says you can stop paying on it and spend the rental income on precious metals then by all means do that.

[IdahoCopper]

What this thread is about is the question of when is it time to pull the plug? The two rental houses have payments of $1800 per month. Instead of paying that each month, is it now the time to conserve that money, and let the perfectly acceptable default provisions of the mortgages kick in? After all, the banks wrote the contracts with the default scenario included, so why not go that route?

Oh I didn't know about that.

If your mortgage says you can stop paying on it and spend the rental income on precious metals then by all means do that.

Yup, the mortgage says I can stop paying and they will foreclose and take the property, in lieu of being paid money.

Its possible to stall foreclosure for 10 to 24 months.

It doesn't mention using the rents to buy PMs, food, and lead; so I'm on my own with that decision....lol.

[WizardTN]

Does it mention that you still owe the balance if they dispose of the property for less than the note due?
And is your ownership in that property it's own legal entity, thereby protecting any other assets that they could put a hook into and force the sale of to settle any outstanding balance due?