Fractional Gold - What to avoid/look for

[involuntary tentacle]

hey... haven't been active on RC in a good while. real life has dealt me some really **** cards.
but anyway, i need to get back into the game here quick. my stack hasn't decreased, but it hasn't gotten any taller, either.
at this point in time, i cannot afford to go out and stack 1 ounce AGEs. The time spent saving money towards 1 ouncers could be used to buy a bit of fractional gold.
Having more coins, regardless of size, is more important to me this late in the game

Basically, I want to avoid paying any premiums if I can avoid it. Which fractional AGEs are key dates? And if there are key dates for different denominations, that information would be appreciated as well. Thanks.

[Treetop]

You might look into these. http://www.apmex.com/Category/309/Moder ... Coins.aspx

these are about a 1/4 ounce, and only 10-15 over spot on apmex. On ebay you can usually get them at melt.... Lots of rarer ones to be had at melt as well.

[involuntary tentacle]

hmm.. might be an option. thanks. but these don't indicate the purity and weight, something you might want when these things have their monetary status restored.

[Treetop]

true, but for the record they are the same purity and weight as the old pre33 gold coins of the same face value.... i would of rather had AGEs or actually maples for purity in 1/10 or 1/4 myself.... but at the time i had the cash for the prices I was able to source it seemed much better to get these and a few ounces of silver for the same price Id get an ounce of the 1/10s.... I dont have the deep pockets of many here.

I focused on keeping the rarer mintages, many I have are mintages of as low as 20-60k..... dont carry any premium now, but could one day...

[beauanderos]

It's tough to pick up bargains on 1/10 oz gold fractionals on ebay right now. Most are going for over $200. Your best bet is to bid on larger lots (five or more) where the competitors are fewer.

[involuntary tentacle]

1/10 oz isnt the only fraction gold is minted in

1/20 oz pandas are interesting but I worry about the ignorant people I might be dealing with in the future, so I kinda want to shy away from those.

[Lemon Thrower]

look at 20 franc swiss and french coins - .1867 troy ounce, and british sovereigns at .2354.

these are nearly as liquid as AGEs and are available at much more reasonable premiums.

you can also sometimes find less well known fractional gold at spot, which is a bargain. gold is gold.

[Mossy]

"Sovereigns"? Yabbut.

The most counterfeited coin in the world.

I bought the full Fisch set ($549), only verified my Krug's but it's easy. I think "Wallet #2" will be the one most here in the US would want, even though single Wallets (sets) are $169 each, bought singles.

Wallet #2 - Gold
Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel (1oz.)
1/2 Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel
1/4 Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel
1/10 Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel
British Sovereign / South African 2 Rand
(5 Detectors)

Like the ad says, a wallet will pay for it's self with the first fake rejected.

These gadgets are also simple, durable, and don't require batteries. You can roll them in an inspection cloth and drop them in a pocket without worrying about breakage.

A scale, vernier, and good notes is better, but the Fisch allows less argument.

http://www.fisch.co.za/orderonline.htm#products

[blackrabbit]

I like golden grams. I have always thought I was paying too much for them but now I think I should have bought more as the premiums seem to actually go up with the price of gold . I could easily sell all I have bought for large profits now. In my humble opinion gold is going to hit 2000 so even buying them now with huge premiums will gain you good profits.

Hey Mossy, the Fisch devices look pretty handy. I might want to get a silver dollar one. Thanks for posting the link. Let us know if you find any fakes using them.

[68Camaro]

Modern US 90% commemorative gold is my hands-down favorite. You can get them at melt or less, they are interesting, they are official US currency, and they are both well known and well documented as to composition and gold content. The fractional AGEs have an edge in popularity and documented content on face, but that isn't enough of an edge to compensate for their increased cost (to me).

[Lemon Thrower]

everyone has their preference.

to some extent the us gold commemoratives are a steal. however, they are not easily recognized and therefore illiquid.

foreign gold is equaly a steal for the same reason.

francs and sovereigns are a good comprimise imho. you get fractional size with liquidity and recgonizability and only 10-20 bucks premium.

i have never heard of fractionals being counterfeited, it may happen but that's gotta be more rare than full size or numis. a $10 scale is your friend.

[Treetop]

lemon thrower... while that might be true most places where i live the commems. are recognizable and weight understood because many know of the pre33 stuff.

ANYTHING foreign unless its from mexico (im in new mexico) has a terrible resell value, and though we do have the internet today we might not always have it, atleast for sales you can trust as many do here...

so atleast in my case commems were the only safe bet for low premium fractionals. this might be different in the large city a bit over an hour from me, I dunno. but in the county I live in it hold true.

[68Camaro]

to some extent the us gold commemoratives are a steal. however, they are not easily recognized and therefore illiquid.

I understand your point. The AGE is the best known coin in the world, even more so than those that started before it.

However, frankly, I don't see this as a practical problem. Gold is not a routine currency; never has been. A $20 gold piece in the late 1800s was like a $10,000 bill would be now. People just didn't carry them around, which is why those that are left don't have much wear on them - mostly just bag marks. The value of gold is too large for very many people to ever be carrying very much of it around. And that means that the people that are most likely to actually deal in them, to be able to exchange them, or make change from them, will know full well the value of every major gold type that has been coined, but especially the US types. And there are really only 3 types of US gold that have been coined and will be examined: pre-33 old gold (90% Au), post-86 AGE gold (22kt), and the new old gold (90% Au).

[twentybux]

"Sovereigns"? Yabbut.

The most counterfeited coin in the world.

I bought the full Fisch set ($549), only verified my Krug's but it's easy. I think "Wallet #2" will be the one most here in the US would want, even though single Wallets (sets) are $169 each, bought singles.

Wallet #2 - Gold
Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel (1oz.)
1/2 Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel
1/4 Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel
1/10 Krugerrand/American Eagle/Britannia/Angel
British Sovereign / South African 2 Rand
(5 Detectors)

Like the ad says, a wallet will pay for it's self with the first fake rejected.

These gadgets are also simple, durable, and don't require batteries. You can roll them in an inspection cloth and drop them in a pocket without worrying about breakage.

A scale, vernier, and good notes is better, but the Fisch allows less argument.

http://www.fisch.co.za/orderonline.htm#products

Have not seen the fisch before. Interesting concept. Might have to look into one of these.

[Treetop]

68camaro... those are some great points!

One other thing... AGEs really are nice and all, nothing wrong with them, but if Im stacking things with a higher premium for me personally it would be pre33 gold or something that is .999 plus....

As far as things to avoid... what do people think of the chineese pandas? Most sources seem to only sell them in mint packaging, which presumably makes them easier to pass of fakes i would think. yet ive seen these sell for even a steeper premium then AGEs(from our country) or maples(.9999fine). Id have to see an amazing deal to consider it, and then at that point Id probably also be assuming it was a fake. Perhaps Im just prejudice towards china? i dont trust their standards...

[Lemon Thrower]

my view is .1 oz AGEs have a ridiculously high premium.

.25 oz AGE's go for about 4.5% over. you can get british sovereigns at .2354 for about that - $10-20 over, or french or swiss 20 francs at .1867 for $10 over. Its spilitting hairs for me among these. the british and french are beautiful coins and very old varieties can be found. the premiums are a little better than for the .25 AGE's and the sizes a little smaller. liquidity is almost as good and better than fractionals imho.

i don't know what the fractionals go for but i wouldnt pay more than 4.5% over since you can get a .25 oz AGE for that.

if you can get them closer to spot that may be a good deal.

[Treetop]

I got these for 5-10 bucks under spot on ebay not including the 5 percent off.... (mrrebates no longer works so its 2 percent now) Lots of really low mintages on some of them to....

[argent_pur]

Back to the original post...I don't know of any gold coin period that doesn't carry a premium. You said you were looking for a premium-less coin. That's assuming you buy from a dealer, of course, but if you buy here or other PM forums, you can snag fractionals at spot or just a hair over--which you know already (so why did I say it?)

Anyway, among the modern bullion coins, last I checked K-Rands have the lowest premiums at every size.

If you're not scared off by Euro fractionals (which there's really no good reason to be if you can get them at spot), Lemon Thrower is right on with the Sovs and French/Swiss 20 francs--quite liquid and the spreads are comparable to similar-sized modern bullion fractionals. Any dealer worth anything will know them at a glance. As far as Sovs being faked, yes it's true they are the most-faked coin in the world, BUT the odds of finding one are still slim.

If you're feeling more adventurous, you could go for German 20 Marks, Austrian 20 Coronas, or Dutch 10 Guilders--all very recognized and beautiful coins!

[68Camaro]

Back to the original post...I don't know of any gold coin period that doesn't carry a premium.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think Treetop was trying to communicate an important relevant message, which is the US gold commemorative can often be had for less than melt (not always, but often enough). OK - done, won't say it again.