PF70 grading question

[Nystagmus]

I'm a numisnoob who's been looking into one of the proof spouse coins. It's graded PF70 ultra cameo by NGC and looks perfect to the naked eye, but using a magnifier there's 3 tiny shiny spots on the frosted portrait. You can only see them if the lighting is just right. Does this mean the grading is incorrect or are there certain things that can pass as a 70? Also, do the edges have to be perfectly centered?

[Nystagmus]

bump for the Saturday crowd

[Thogey]

I once had a professional grader tell me there is no such thing as a MS-70 or PF-70 coin.

Grading is always subjective and nothing made by man is perfect.

[ed_vantage17]

That could be on the plastic case. Bottom line: If NGC or PCGS says PF70, it's PF70.

[daviscfad]

Yea there is something like 5x magnification that they use and if it looks good under that then its what they go by. None are perfect

[Nystagmus]

Thanks for all the responses. Clears things up a little bit...there's definitely a learning curve to graded coins.

[abe]

I've never seen a 70 and just because a piece of plastic has a label on it that says 70 doesn't mean that it is.
The definition for 70 doesn't mean squat either.
" A flawless coin exactly as it was minted",
so that means in 1925 with all the worn dies in the lincoln series,
the coins that were struck immediately were 70's. I don't think so,
and not 1 tpg would have given them a 70. By the definition,
if each coin was pulled immediately after it was struck it would be a 70.
There's no doubt that nowadays the mint has some close to 70 coins,
but there will be a minute flaw on each of them.
I never did like the 70 point system. Its flawed itself.

[ed_vantage17]

I've never seen a 70 and just because a piece of plastic has a label on it that says 70 doesn't mean that it is.
The definition for 70 doesn't mean squat either.
" A flawless coin exactly as it was minted",
so that means in 1925 with all the worn dies in the lincoln series,
the coins that were struck immediately were 70's. I don't think so,
and not 1 tpg would have given them a 70. By the definition,
if each coin was pulled immediately after it was struck it would be a 70.
There's no doubt that nowadays the mint has some close to 70 coins,
but there will be a minute flaw on each of them.
I never did like the 70 point system. Its flawed itself.

I have to respectfully disagree with a few points here.

The hobby has generally accepted NGC, PCGS, and ANACS as the final word in grading. If they say it's MS or PF70 then that's what it is.

Of course all grading is subjective, especially when you get into the 60+ range. No system is perfect when humans are involved, but it's good enough to keep the vast majority of the hobby happy. I know if I have a slabbed MS70 coin, it's grade won't be questioned when I look to sell as long as it's one of the Big 3 companies.

[abe]

It especially keeps the hobby happy when they give key date coins a nudge to get them to the next grade.
Especially 1916-D mercury dimes, half of them graded G-4 are no more than AG-3 at their best.
Most collectors may be fine with the TPG's final word, but as the old saying goes,
"buy the coin not the plastic".

[nero12345]

Common misconception about proofs include the tendency to call a proof a grade, when it is actually a condition of manufacture. Any proof showing wear is classed as an impaired proof.