Premiums

[Market Harmony]

If I have physical silver, then I get to determine the price for which I want to sell it. The fact that I own a business does not contract me to use the spot price of silver to determine my selling price. Only if I state emphatically does it apply. Oh, I guess that's what I do...

[Mossy]

An advertising slogan came out about 35 or 40 years ago (or longer): "The customer is always right."

This, is not the case.

[appjoe]

appjoe, would you sell at this big a loss if you did not have to for some reason?

We are talking about a shop that is in the business of buying and selling. His buy and sell prices are in line with other dealers. As he stated before silver dropped he was buying at $24. and the last 2 days he had a lot of people selling, so I guess he was buying around 17-18 . So how is he selling at a big loss. Today I bought 2 rolls of halves 1- 64 JFK' roll the other mixed Franklins I paid $440 or $22x1 while I was there the dealer must of bought about $100 face and he was paying $18x1 So it was a normal business day. It's his choice if he doesn't want to sell I don't blame him that's his choice. I just said if I was buying from him for a year or more every week, as I have been doing with my dealer here and then when I went in today if he said I'm not selling because of the price drop I would walk out and never do business with him again. Isn't this what we all look for a price drop so we can load up. Now I'm talking about a regular shop that is a full time business not someone that's just doing this to make a few extra dollars. This is the last I'm going to comment on this. I only voiced my opinion nothing personal.

[appjoe]

This idea of abandoning a dealer because he is charging $5 over instead of the normal $2 over seems really silly to me. Let's turn it around for a second. Say I'm a dealer that always pays spot for silver. You bought 10 ounces from me on Wednesday for $42. Now that spot has dropped to $31, I give you a call and say "you have to sell me that 10 ounces of silver back now for $31, or I will never buy from you again." That's exactly what you're doing to the dealer.

It seems to me the sense of entitlement in our society has even leached into PM buyers. Some people feel they are "entitled" to buy silver at the paper price, regardless of physical market conditions, and throw a temper tantrum if they don't get their way. That's juvenile behavior, and honestly I'd be happy to wave that type of customer right onto the next dealer, so I could get back to helping customers with legitimate questions and rational thought processes

Grumble grumble...

If spot stays down, physical prices will come down, but not as quickly and not as far. Physical trading requires inventories, real transactions and fund exchanges, shipping and delivery, etc. Stock trades are executed automatically and instantaneously by trigger prices and computer programs. Naturally the physical market is going to lag on dips.

Nate
For over a year now when the market closes of Friday I can tell you exactly what my dealer will charge me for junk silver on Saturday which is spot. All I'm saying is just because silver dropped why should I walk in and have him say Joe silver dropped so I'm not selling to you today or I have to charge you $5 over spot because of the drop. You know the dealer is buying cheaper because of the drop. So only a dealer can profit from the peaks and valleys and I as a customer will gladly move on to a dealer that treats me fair. I'm happy my dealer sticks to his policy of buying and selling and doesn't add on premiums or refuses to sell when the market drops. When I walk into his shop all I have to do is look at the price of spot at that minute and I can tell you what he's buying and selling at.

[balz]

appjoe, would you sell at this big a loss if you did not have to for some reason?

We are talking about a shop that is in the business of buying and selling. His buy and sell prices are in line with other dealers. As he stated before silver dropped he was buying at $24. and the last 2 days he had a lot of people selling, so I guess he was buying around 17-18 . So how is he selling at a big loss. Today I bought 2 rolls of halves 1- 64 JFK' roll the other mixed Franklins I paid $440 or $22x1 while I was there the dealer must of bought about $100 face and he was paying $18x1 So it was a normal business day. It's his choice if he doesn't want to sell I don't blame him that's his choice. I just said if I was buying from him for a year or more every week, as I have been doing with my dealer here and then when I went in today if he said I'm not selling because of the price drop I would walk out and never do business with him again. Isn't this what we all look for a price drop so we can load up. Now I'm talking about a regular shop that is a full time business not someone that's just doing this to make a few extra dollars. This is the last I'm going to comment on this. I only voiced my opinion nothing personal.

I think this is how it should work.

[Rodebaugh]

Now folks you don’t have to feed the buzzards flying in and out of your coin shop looking to buy all of your bullion inventory on the dip. But, If I had a costumer that shows up every other Thursday for two years in a row looking to buy the same amount of coin no matter the spot with a constant premium I had set..sure as hell wouldn’t send him on his way. That person is an investment for any coin shop. A guarantied bi-weekly sale that a loss of 10-20 one week would easily be recuperated within the next few. Get my drift......That kind of regulated buyer needs to be kept in rhythm.....don't save a few bones today to screw yourself out of future $100's.

So, Joe I see your point.....and no good dealer will dump on his regulars if he can help it. But any dealer with half a lick of sense will send those "buy um up buzzards" flying on.

And I will add....lets go Mountaineers!!!!!

[balz]

I don't understand why would one make any difference between any customer.

As appjoe stated, whatever the spot price is, if the coin shop buys at a lesser price and sells at a higher price in the long term he will make a profit.

And there are people selling right now, so if the coin shop buys those bullions and sell them instantly even at spot price + maybe 1-2%, it's still a profit.

Maybe I don't understand how it works, but IMO any rule should be respected in any situation. A 25% drop in silver price should not be a reason to stop selling the goods, no more than the same drop in rice price should make any grocery empty their rice shelves.

[Thogey]

Rule?

What Rule?

[balz]

Rule?

What Rule?

If a coin shop says he will buy at spot minus X and sell at spot plus X, he should respect that rule in any situation IMO.

[Rodebaugh]

I don't understand why would one make any difference between any customer.

As appjoe stated, whatever the spot price is, if the coin shop buys at a lesser price and sells at a higher price in the long term he will make a profit.

And there are people selling right now, so if the coin shop buys those bullions and sell them instantly even at spot price + maybe 1-2%, it's still a profit.

Maybe I don't understand how it works, but IMO any rule should be respected in any situation. A 25% drop in silver price should not be a reason to stop selling the goods, no more than the same drop in rice price should make any grocery empty their rice shelves.

Maybe.......but If spot is $30 and I have ases at $35......then spot goes to $40 in two days do you think I will have ases at $45? No.....they will be at $41 or $42 tops.

Same thing with the downside.

And, No costomers are not all equal. I have not had a transaction with you so I would need to let funds clear for up to ten days, whereas, I would ship Joe's goods out the next day before ever recieving funds......follow? It's a CYA (cover your A$$) thing..........nevermind......I'd make joe's funds clear for two months

Disclaimer: I do not have a storefront. I am a wholesale buyer/seller that plans on doing a few shows a year. These are opinions and just random babbels.

[theo]

I don't understand why would one make any difference between any customer.

As appjoe stated, whatever the spot price is, if the coin shop buys at a lesser price and sells at a higher price in the long term he will make a profit.

And there are people selling right now, so if the coin shop buys those bullions and sell them instantly even at spot price + maybe 1-2%, it's still a profit.

Maybe I don't understand how it works, but IMO any rule should be respected in any situation. A 25% drop in silver price should not be a reason to stop selling the goods, no more than the same drop in rice price should make any grocery empty their rice shelves.

Actually its pretty routine for businesses to reserve special treatment for their preferred customers. Modern marketing theory argues that not every customer relationship is profitable. In fact some customers are parasites and should be dealt with carefully or even avoided. When spot gets knocked down this much, some of these "new customers" could be rival dealers looking to build up their own inventories. I think what Rhodebaugh suggests is a nice balance. It is worth it take tempoaray losses to preserve important relationships, but if a dealer allows every mook who walks in the door to buy at this low (and most likely temporary) spot price he'll likely get cleaned out.

[neilgin1]

Rule?

What Rule?

RULE?!? I"LL TELL YOU WHAT "RULE"......."RULE .303!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj8N8Nvv6ys

thought you'd like that Major, neil...this thread has me chuckling. Silver futures are traded on futures exchange, in this case, COMEX.
this thread is perfect example of why i do all my pretend trading on Ebay....'friends"?...a coin dealer, your "friend"? wtf. Friendships in trading cloud judgement, being raised in the trading pits taught me that years, thats why i dont trade with anybody. Not because i dont trust the guys, quite the contrary, its because i WANT to stay friends. In the trading world, physical, futures, whatever, if you want a friend, get a dog.

[plus1hdcp]

Now folks you don’t have to feed the buzzards flying in and out of your coin shop looking to buy all of your bullion inventory on the dip. But, If I had a costumer that shows up every other Thursday for two years in a row looking to buy the same amount of coin no matter the spot with a constant premium I had set..sure as hell wouldn’t send him on his way. That person is an investment for any coin shop. A guarantied bi-weekly sale that a loss of 10-20 one week would easily be recuperated within the next few. Get my drift......That kind of regulated buyer needs to be kept in rhythm.....don't save a few bones today to screw yourself out of future $100's.

So, Joe I see your point.....and no good dealer will dump on his regulars if he can help it. But any dealer with half a lick of sense will send those "buy um up buzzards" flying on.

And I will add....lets go Mountaineers!!!!!

Well said and I will add a lets go Mountaineers even though it doesn't look good. Touchdown WVU as I type.

I for one understand and respect the buy / sell spread my lcs uses but they may have lost my regulay bi-weekly buy. It is not cost effective for me to pay the shipping on my regular buys (usually in the $150-$200 range) as this shifts the price above the lcs spread. However, when the spread approached 15%+ and the lcs told me they "are losing there shorts" the past two days. I respect the fact they are setting the market in there store. I just find it hard to believe the owner of the lcs wants to throw away a regular transaction, about 20+ per year. The good thing is, there is always another avenue for me to continue and there is always another shop.

[Thogey]

Rule?

What Rule?

If a coin shop says he will buy at spot minus X and sell at spot plus X, he should respect that rule in any situation IMO.

Nice, but you might be existing in a parallel universe, where there are rules.

neil,
Breaker Morant was required material when I was at USAFA 85-89.

Thanks for the review.

[balz]

Rule?

What Rule?

If a coin shop says he will buy at spot minus X and sell at spot plus X, he should respect that rule in any situation IMO.

Nice, but you might be existing in a parallel universe, where there are rules.

Rules are what honest dealers apply.

I don't care if anyone sell whatever he or she wants to sell at whatever price he or she decides to.

But if you say to your customer that you will sell to them at spot minus 2% and buy from them at spot plus 2%, you have to do just this.

If you don't, you're not honest with your store policy and with your customer.

IMO, saying that you wouldn't sell at a price that consider the 25% crash would only make sense if you buy from customers at a price that does not consider this either.

In other words: if you buy silver from a customer at 30$ - 2 $ = 28$ and you refuse to sell silver at 30$ + 2$ = 32$ then you are not honest with your customers.

This is how I see this.

But again, everyone is free to charge whatever they want to charge. But there's no chance I will be back to the store who wanted to sell me silver rounds at 45$ CDN and in the long run I believe acting like this will lose customers.

P.S. I'm NOT actually accusing anyone of doing this. I simply state how I feel about this situation.

[Thogey]

Economic reality is the rule. This has nothing to do with policy.

I wish it was different but it's not and never will be.

Everyone will persue their own self interest.

[balz]

Economic reality is the rule. This has nothing to do with policy.

I wish it was different but it's not and never will be.

Everyone will persue their own self interest.

But maybe the long time interest of the dealer is to stick with a clear policy and follow it, whatever the spot price is.

Anyway, I didn't mean to start such a big debate.

In the end, anyone can do whatever he believes is right.

I just prefer to shop at places where I know that the premiums don't vary too much!

Have a good night guys.

[Coppercrazy]

well my local guy does serious buying and selling,I asked him what he does in a big dip once,he said the stuff he paid over current spot for goes in the safe,until spot reaches that level again.makes common sense to me.someone will come in the next day to sell and he'll have junk at the new spot price anyways.

[tractorman]

When I can't get junk 90% for below melt, that's when it makes sense to me to buy ASEs. I mean, hey, if I'm gonna pay a premium, right?

During a nice extended bull run, there will be lots of sheeple to be sheared for their junk 90% alone and savvy folks won't mind taking a cut of it. "We buy old gold and silver!" I mean the way its been going, it seems like the silver they bought yesterday was always worth more today. Easy money. "Top prices paid!" - This one always makes me chuckle.

As far as it concerns me, I appreciate the fact that I can buy ASEs (right) on this dip. There is another topic right now about where you can buy silver at a good price. I'll use it to separate out the truly serious online dealers from the pretenders. I don't have a local source for bullion (at spot prices on a dip anyhow ), so I'm quite interested.

[cesariojpn]

It seems to me the sense of entitlement in our society has even leached into PM buyers. Some people feel they are "entitled" to buy silver at the paper price, regardless of physical market conditions, and throw a temper tantrum if they don't get their way. That's juvenile behavior, and honestly I'd be happy to wave that type of customer right onto the next dealer, so I could get back to helping customers with legitimate questions and rational thought processes

Yeah, I mean, what ever happened to "take your business elsewhere" type of thinking? Nooooooo, we have to have people act like spoiled brats who yell and scream, all because of the "principle" of the complaint. The energy wasted on bitching and screaming would be better used in looking elsewhere.

Unless you live in Bumfucknowhere USA, you should have at least two places that sell silver/gold (A coin shop and a pawn shop at least), and connection to the internet. At least a freakin' internet connection seeing that in mere minutes, you can figure out which site online sells cheaply.

An advertising slogan came out about 35 or 40 years ago (or longer): "The customer is always right."

This, is not the case.

And people today take that stupid statement and warp it into such extremes, i'm surprised some businesses even last with that mentality.