need everyone's opinion

[GA-Silver]

I have a small IRA account worth less than $5K. Should I cash it in, pay the tax/penalty, and buy silver, or leave it on the account? Interest rates are a laugh on what the IRA draws. The way I feel about the economy, I am almost afraid the money will go away in a bank failure....

[beauanderos]

If you choose to cash out, you will have something tangible that will always have value. You can't, with certainty, make the same statement of the worth of an IRA

[Thogey]

I've liquidated over $20K in IRA, 401K paid the tax and bought PMs over the past 5 years.

Not an opinion. Just what I did.

[tbram88]

I have more confidence in the silver in my safe than IRA. My pension has taken a beating in the last three years, if I could draw it out and buy silver I would do it.

Just my $0.02

Good luck...Bob.

[barrytrot]

Buy SIVR or one of the other "fake silver" things. The economy may plumet but the odds of the stock market disappearing and any semblance of life-as-we-know-it staying are very tiny, so your 5,000 in silver will mean a lot less since planet of the apes style havoc will reign.

I would never intentionally increase my taxes

And if Thogey had bought fake-silver over the last 5 years he would be up MORE due to no tax loss. Quite a bit more actually because the tax loss was immediate so all that money in tax loss didn't grow by more than double with the rest of his silver!

[Thogey]

You still have to pay your tax on the back end.

I was thinking taxes will rise and cash will be worth less (worthless?). Now that money is out of the system.

I still have a wad in paper 'retirement'. and I hate it.

[Thogey]

Not only that, but remember when the goobermint was considering 'co-opting, seizing' our IRA money in exchange for a gubmint retirement program?

That was also a factor. I just want my little bit of money out of the system.

[BamaJoe]

Over the past 5 years I've cashed out several IRAs, bought pm's and paid the taxes and penalties. Even though the penalties alone were 5 figures I have made not only that back, but also the taxes I paid on them with the increase in pm values.

My big reason for bailing out was that i believe the .gov will get desparate enough to go after the 401ks, IRSs, Pensions, etc. at some point in the future and give you a nice government account full of IOUs paying a fraction of what the real inflation rate is. I got my money out, bought real assets and have it under my control. The .gov can suck wind.

[inflationhawk]

Paying the penalty makes no sense. With an IRA you have plenty of options to buy stock, ETFs, mutual funds, etc. to take a 20% penalty up front to buy PMs makes no sense to me. In fact, you'd probably be better off buying PMs In a custodial IRA that will hold PMs on your behalf. Never pay penalties to withdraw early from an IRA unless you are seriously desperate. That's my opinion at least.

[hejira11]

If you choose to cash out, you will have something tangible that will always have value. You can't, with certainty, make the same statement of the worth of an IRA

I concur. But, by the same (physical silver) token, consider the group of people you are asking- it could be argued that we are a bit, "biased." I just like to think of us as, "correct."

[Thogey]

Paying the penalty makes no sense. With an IRA you have plenty of options to buy stock, ETFs, mutual funds, etc. to take a 20% penalty up front to buy PMs makes no sense to me. In fact, you'd probably be better off buying PMs In a custodial IRA that will hold PMs on your behalf. Never pay penalties to withdraw early from an IRA unless you are seriously desperate. That's my opinion at least.

Your probably right. I just hate looking at my financial future on someone else's ledger. Just a number on a piece of paper.


I'll work till I die anyway

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I never started a government sponsored retirement plan like 401k, Roth IRA, etc. to begin with. Read up on how governments in South America confiscated everyone's accounts and paid them pennies on the dollar. I used after tax dollars to buy PM's and I am sure I could have done better doing it the more traditional way. But, my silver money has roughly tripled in the time I have done this and it's under my control. I have piece of mind.

I would never trust someone else holding my money, such a SLV. When the lights go out and the SHTF, good luck on getting "your" silver out of SLV. Read the syllabus. I am telling you the truth.

As far as cashing out $5,000 out of an IRA, man, I don't know. That is why I have a CPA. Go ask your CPA how this will effect your personal tax situation. If you don't have one, shop around. Find at least a tax accountant to help you. Some are very reasonable. It will be worth it (IMHO).

Oh, yeah, I plan on working until I am too beat-up to work anymore. Many "longevity hot-spots" across the globe are in countries that do not have formal retirement programs. People live longer by staying very active longer.

[barrytrot]

Here is another possibility for the "government will confiscate crowd": The government will decide JUST AS EASILY that they want to tax holdings. I.e. net worth, silver, gold, etc. That's just as likely, if not more likely, since it's been done by modern Governments like Germany already.

Additionally the government could decide to get stringent on taxing bullion sales and profits and get aggressive on prosecuting those that don't pay the taxes.

If you think that the first target of the government is the people with IRA/401k money and not "off the grid people" that doesn't sound like the government to me.

Doesn't it make more sense for the government to declare, "the people with lots of bullion are planning something bad and therefore we are just going to levy a large asset tax RETROACTIVELY. Believe us because we are the government and we are here to help. These people are just loners anyway." That sounds like something that could easily happen.

Meanwhile the IRA/401k people are the "every man", do you think that's the fight the government wants?

I would think the fight the government wants is with the off-the-grid crowd. They definitely do not like that crowd anyway as it defeats many of their anti-privacy campaigns.

[silverflake]

Buy some PM stocks in your IRA. I am a big fan of Silver Wheaton (SLW). moves in lockstep with silver (thats good and bad), pays a dividend (tiny though it may be) and has fat call premiums if you are aggressive enough to generate income by selling covered calls against it.

Out side of your IRA, buy PMs with every scrap cent you have. I make sure to pack my own lunch every day, budget my groceries, cash in scrap metal etc. and even with my wife and 2 kids I am able to save enough money that every 2 months or so I can buy some silver. Lately I have been selling a lot of collectible coins I bought during the 'silver depression' of the 1990's and buying bullion (ASEs and 90% junk) because I get more bang for the bucks.

Sell your baseball cards, sell your comic books, get a part-time job with the earnings dedicated to PMs. All bad things considered, I just don't know about cashing out of the IRA.

Nice to see everyone on this thread giving some good words of wisdom though.

[68Camaro]

I have a similar small IRA account that I setup 20 years ago in a one time deposit and tend to forget about, so thanks for jogging my memory. Has about $3K in it. I'm planning on cashing it in, paying the taxes and penalty, buying an ounce plus of gold with it.

[reddirtcoins]

For those small amounts... convert it to metal and make sure you can hold it. If you can't see it, it's not real.

[barrytrot]

For those that want to convert and pay hefty penalties one question: Why on earth did you ever put money there in the first place?

Either you don't think IRA/401k is good and you don't use or you do use it. I don't understand forcing a huge penalty on oneself?

[68Camaro]

For those that want to convert and pay hefty penalties one question: Why on earth did you ever put money there in the first place?

Either you don't think IRA/401k is good and you don't use or you do use it. I don't understand forcing a huge penalty on oneself?

Nothing personal Barry, but why is that even a valid question? (I started to say this less kindly, but that's not fair to you.) The world is not the same place it was 25 years ago. 25 years ago I would've thought buying gold and silver was stupid. You assume that the IRA and 401K will still be there in a year or five. Maybe it will, I hope it will because short of the situation where I leave my job (which would be far more stupid) I can't get anything out of my 401K for 5 years, except the loan portion which I'm locked out of for another 18 months. The teeny IRA, however, I can cash out. The assumptions I made about the US and the world when I deposited are no longer valid (maybe they weren't valid then, but I was far less well informed and information was sketchy), and the relatively tiny penalty (10%) is nothing compared to a drop in the market, or the total absence of all funds, ala MF Global.

I'm not trying to influence anyone else - do your own due diligence, and not all assumptions can be applied to all situations - but I can tell you that for me personally that if I could cash out my 401K and take the penalty and convert it into physical gold, I'd do the whole damn thing in a heartbeat.

[barrytrot]

For those that want to convert and pay hefty penalties one question: Why on earth did you ever put money there in the first place?

Either you don't think IRA/401k is good and you don't use or you do use it. I don't understand forcing a huge penalty on oneself?

Nothing personal Barry, but why is that even a valid question? (I started to say this less kindly, but that's not fair to you.) The world is not the same place it was 25 years ago. 25 years ago I would've thought buying gold and silver was stupid. You assume that the IRA and 401K will still be there in a year or five. Maybe it will, I hope it will because short of the situation where I leave my job (which would be far more stupid) I can't get anything out of my 401K for 5 years, except the loan portion which I'm locked out of for another 18 months. The teeny IRA, however, I can cash out. The assumptions I made about the US and the world when I deposited are no longer valid (maybe they weren't valid then, but I was far less well informed and information was sketchy), and the relatively tiny penalty (10%) is nothing compared to a drop in the market, or the total absence of all funds, ala MF Global.

I'm not trying to influence anyone else - do your own due diligence, and not all assumptions can be applied to all situations - but I can tell you that for me personally that if I could cash out my 401K and take the penalty and convert it into physical gold, I'd do the whole damn thing in a heartbeat.

That's a good and very valid answer regarding the reason. So if you agree then GET OUT OF YOUR IRA NOW. If not, then don't. That's pretty straight forward.

Also, I wasn't meaning to upset anyone, I was just HIGHLY confused as to why someone with an IRA would want out. That's all. Your explanation was well done.

[Copper_Baron]

I'm in my early 40's and had very good success investing in the stock market in the 1990's. Still hold a decent chunk of my net worth in common stocks for retirement. Started investing, hoarding, scrapping metals (mostly copper pennies, copper scrap, silver bars, and a little bit of gold) a few years ago for the same reasons a lot of people on these forums are. However, over the past 2 years I have been "selectively" putting a bit more money in common stocks than metals. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was up 18% two years ago, 11% last year and when I last checked, up 3% this year. That's right, stocks are up 46% percent over the past 36 months. Here is my point - There will be a another great bull market for stocks someday, no question. However, most investors miss out on the biggest runs for bull markets in stocks because these runs start when everyone is completely doom and gloom (which it certainly smells like right now). We are going to look back and say this great bull market in stocks started sometime between 2009 and 2013.

However, I think that metals will participate tremendously in the next bull market for stocks because I feel the catalyst will be efficiency of infrastructure, transportation, waste management, etc in in urban settings. And it will all be based on high end technology and electricity. The decreasing availability of copper and certain precious metals will go along for the ride on this one, unlike they did in the 1990's.

Good luck guys!

[johnbrickner]

The Govt. doesn't need to directly confiscate anyone's IRA's, 401Ks, or other retirement accounts. They are already doing it insidiously with the "printing press" and so have no need to directly show responsibility for the current state of your retirement account. Raise taxes: Only very reluctantly with an election year looming. After the election, "because it's necessary for __________ (you fill in the blank,) sure anything goes. To directly confiscate would cause a loss of faith in the financial system (oops, more than already) and Wall Street isn't about to let that happen either. The worry shouldn't be for the direct confiscation of your IRA it should be for finding a better investment for your IRA. Who knows, maybe the shares of PM mining stocks might reflect the value of the PMs they are minning in the not to distant furture? Good luck.

[GA-Silver]

I paid into my IRA because I was young and inexperienced in money matters. Oh, and I bought into the American dream that if you work hard and put your money in the bank, it'll be there for you when you're old and need it. Plus, I didnt want to pay a 33% tax on cashing out a small retirement account.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I paid into my IRA because I was young and inexperienced in money matters. Oh, and I bought into the American dream that if you work hard and put your money in the bank, it'll be there for you when you're old and need it. Plus, I didnt want to pay a 33% tax on cashing out a small retirement account.

GA-Silver, READ THIS!!!

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9768

Let your conscience be your guide.

[GA-Silver]

Interesting read!

[shinnosuke]

John Maynard Keynes, the flaming liberal whose ideas helped ruin our country, said this:
"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalistic System was to debauch the currency... Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million can diagnose."

I say this:
Inflation is THE way the gov't debauches our currencies.