Consider US 40% silver coin as part of your wealth storage

[neilgin1]

Thanks for the comments! Incorporated several of the comments into a further edit above.

68, glad I could stir some thoughts on the matter.

I noticed guys talking about "selling" or flipping Ag.....I don't sell a single gram of Ag. I consider myself BLESSED, that I am able to take paper fiat and actually BUY Ag with this PAPER....ISSUED by an institution that has totally demolished ALL TRUST, as I see it.

any Ag holdings I MIGHT have, are for the day when we "Zimbabwe"...its coming.

out here, you have two things, you have swap meets, and you have farmer's markets, there will two ways to trade, either barter to barter, which will hard to translate...it can be done, or the way that will predominate, which are silver, cupro-nickel, and 95% copper coins.

I realize many guys disagree with me, but i'm going on history as relayed to me by my brother "FERFAL", who has provided cogent real world testimony from what happened in Argentina, late 90's, he's got a website, and has indexed various writings of his recounting of what really happened down there. The thing he said that first caught my attention, was once the currency crisis hit, ALL coins disappeared, only to RE-appear at the equiv of "swap meets/farmers markets.....unfortunately he was in the city, and it wasn't a fun time....I believe FerFAL was able to relocate to Ireland, thank God.

I have my eye on a stand alone, oil seed/biodiesel mini-refiner that retails for 25k, daily output of 70-100 gallons, and I believe I would be the only kid on the block with one around here.....it was my brothers idea, when I said I wanted draft horses and a a couple of wagons....he disagreed, and brought me around to his thinking, staye blessed 68, n......think production.

[Rastatodd]

I really enjoyed this post. I like 40%... and really it was our LAST silver circulated coin.... I have been PMd by some individuals on here as well as BS... that me asking anywhere close to spot is an insult..... and that "they" have never and would never buy 40% as it is just a waste of time.....I just can't imagine having that kind of sentiment towards 40%....plus I don't konw why they bothered to PM me... just ignore my ad!!!

-The Great

That is what I don't get about some people. If you have no interest in what the buy/sell/trade thread has to offer why go to the trouble to pm a member to tell them that they are wrong in what that member is offering. I for one am glad the issue about 40% halves has been brought to the four front, it makes me look at 40% rolls in a whole different light. Now when I would like to buy some halves at these prices there are none around to be bought. Go figure.

[christostock]

I have found that when silver drops, people will buy it at or near melt.
When silver is a little high or on its way up, people will only buy at below melt/way below melt.
Therefore my buy prices need to be in line with the current market which changes sometimes within minutes.
Like the 90% was hot-hot-hot just a couple weeks ago (dealers were paying spot plus $3 for halves) and now its tough to sell at spot plus$1.
I also have had a couple guys wonder why I am asking melt or close to it for 40%.
It doesn't really matter what they think because they almost never buy anything.
So it wasn't even worth the time to answer them and voila, the 40% sold.

[68Camaro]

I have found that when silver drops, people will buy it at or near melt.
When silver is a little high or on its way up, people will only buy at below melt/way below melt.
Therefore my buy prices need to be in line with the current market which changes sometimes within minutes.
Like the 90% was hot-hot-hot just a couple weeks ago (dealers were paying spot plus $3 for halves) and now its tough to sell at spot plus$1.
I also have had a couple guys wonder why I am asking melt or close to it for 40%.
It doesn't really matter what they think because they almost never buy anything.
So it wasn't even worth the time to answer them and voila, the 40% sold.

Interesting observation - not sure I can explain it - but maybe there is some sort of perceived value decision involved based on $/toz, where during a drop the already cheaper 40% suddenly looks way cheap so it becomes more attractive to some people. Dunno - anyone else have an opinion on the psychology of this?

My buying strategy is (unless I'm fooling myself) based on more on balance than type. So if I percieve I'm unbalanced in a particular type I'll buy (if I view price as fair) regardless of whether price is going up or down. I rotate between gold and silver and 90% (less of this now than I used to because I got overbalanced) and (now, to limited extent) 40%.

[beauanderos]

I have found that when silver drops, people will buy it at or near melt.
When silver is a little high or on its way up, people will only buy at below melt/way below melt.
Therefore my buy prices need to be in line with the current market which changes sometimes within minutes.
Like the 90% was hot-hot-hot just a couple weeks ago (dealers were paying spot plus $3 for halves) and now its tough to sell at spot plus$1.
I also have had a couple guys wonder why I am asking melt or close to it for 40%.
It doesn't really matter what they think because they almost never buy anything.
So it wasn't even worth the time to answer them and voila, the 40% sold.

. Dunno - anyone else have an opinion on the psychology of this?

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, 40% is more stable than 90% during a pricing pullback. Therefore, when silver plunges, it pulls 90% further down (leading to larger compensatory premiums for 90% junk) than it does for 40%. It was my observation that while 90% was fetching sizable premiums, that 40% for the first time in my recollection, was selling at melt or even a tiny bit above that. Now that pricing stability has presumably shed its recent volatility, the premiums on ninety are pulling back towards melt, and the selling price of forty has again receded to below melt. 40% will have its day when 90% is all sucked up into the buying vacuum that will occur eventually

[68Camaro]

Traditional economics would say that 40% price is more stable during a drop because of greater demand for it; which as you noted, is consistent with what Chris noted. I just don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg. Why is the demand greater - what is the pyschology of it? I don't know.

[beauanderos]

Traditional economics would say that 40% price is more stable during a drop because of greater demand for it; which as you noted, is consistent with what Chris noted. I just don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg. Why is the demand greater - what is the pyschology of it? I don't know.

the demand is greater during pullbacks because of human nature. Everyone wants to feel like they're getting a bargain, so they rationalize "why spend such a premium on 90%... when I can get closer to melt with 40%? Plus, I need to "diversify" anyway." So they buy 40%. They also innately recognize that 90% is more volatile, thinking "Gee, 40% hardly changed at all, I think I'll buy (or sell) some."

But you're gonna have to try real hard to convince me that demand for 40% is greater than 90%. Myself? I associate all the bad connotations attributed to clad coins to 40%, it has to shake off a bad reputation in my subconsciousness before it'll ever become a favorite of mine. Impure thoughts

[schockergd]

As long as I can get a good spread, i'll buy it and war nickles. Problem is that I can't always get it below spot.

[CLINT-THE-GREAT]

If spot goes up... I'll buy 40%.... if it goes down... I'll buy 40%......doesn't matter what happens to spot...i'm Perma-Bull like so many of you. And when I run into a bunch at a GREAT deal and decide to share the deal with my bretheren at RC.....that's all... I just don't need some "know-it-all guy" to tell me what i should/shouldn't charge.....just like Chris said.... those guys don't buy anyways

-The Great

[68Camaro]

Interesting - I hit the bump button as an experiment (both to see what it does, and to bump this thread), and it literally changes the posting date of the last post. I don't think it should be allowed to do that.

[scyther]

Another advantage of 40% is that it seems less likely to be counterfeited. We've all heard plenty about fake 99.9 and 90%, and in one thread even fake Canadian 80% was mentioned, but I've never heard of fake 40%. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I think it's safer. Lower incentive. Might even be harder to make it look right, due to multiple layers.

[scyther]

Interesting - I hit the bump button as an experiment (both to see what it does, and to bump this thread), and it literally changes the posting date of the last post. I don't think it should be allowed to do that.

Oh, wow... I agree... that shouldn't be allowed.

[Treetop]

Silver is silver ultimately, but Im with ray, 40% reminds me to much of clad. I do love those bi centennial sets though when I find them close to spot. Im a sucker for commemorative coins. (have all but a 2 of the more expensive commem dollars)

[chester5731]

Silver is silver. I will stack in whatever form is available. War nicks, 40%, 80%, 90%, Sterling, or .999. Does not matter. When the safe (30 cubit feet) is full, then decisions in future stacking will be made.

Isn't that when you buy another safe?

[Recyclersteve]

One other positive about 40% silver that I don't see mentioned above. Being much cheaper than 90% silver, it can therefore be used as a cheaper decoy. Let me explain it this way- I work with some people who may think I own silver. If, God forbid, one of them hired a drugged up gun-toting home invader or three to break into my place in the middle of the night and put a gun to my head at 2am, they wouldn't understand it if I said all my silver is stored offsite. But if I give them some cheap decoy silver (i.e., 40%ers, 10% Mexican silver pesos or even counterfeit silver or gold coins that look real to most people), then they have something and I haven't given up that much. The decoys are at home- the good stuff elsewhere.

[68Camaro]

One other positive about 40% silver that I don't see mentioned above. Being much cheaper than 90% silver, it can therefore be used as a cheaper decoy. Let me explain it this way- I work with some people who know I love silver. If, God forbid, one of them hired a drugged up gun-toting home invader or three to break into my place in the middle of the night and put a gun to my head at 2am, they wouldn't understand it if I said all my silver is stored offsite. But if I give them some cheap decoy silver (i.e., 40%ers, 10% Mexican silver pesos or even counterfeit silver or gold coins that look real to most people), then they have something and I haven't given up that much. The decoys are at home- the good stuff elsewhere.

That's a good point. You don't want people to know you have anything, but it can be difficult to be perfectly quiet about coin storage, so hiding behind some copper cents, nickels, and 40% halves put in the least well-hidden location is a great option.

[Know Common Cents]

Makes me feel like a geezer, but there was a time I was buying bags ($100 face) of US 40% for $135. The owner of an area LCS looked at me as if I had 2 heads, but not even one brain when I asked to buy them in quantity.

I later sold the $100 face bags @ $211 each and thought I was the Warren Buffet of coin investing. A cool profit of $76 for every one. My limelight was extinguished rather quickly, though, as the POS began its upward trajectory. The comments about it being bulky are absolutely correct.

Ah, but there's a happy ending to this saga. Whilst I parted with the 40% halves, I hung on to the US 90% I bought at that time. I marked the rolls of quarters and Franklins/Walkers with the price I paid. That would be $35.60 per $10 face. Where did I park my Way Back Machine to load up on more?

[beauanderos]

Current pricing

APMEX offering 1.4% below melt on 90% and 7.5% below melt on 40%
Provident offering 11.29% above melt on 90% and 5.3% below melt on 40%

[Recyclersteve]

A couple more comments on 40% that I don't see mentioned on this thread:

1) I've been told that it is VERY expensive to have a refiner melt 40% silver. Ditto for the melting of war nickels- actually war nickels would likely be worse because of the manganese in them. So from that standpoint, 90% would likely have much more true value and therefore be more likely to be melted. Can anyone here who has more knowledge of the refining business comment on this?

2) Don't get me wrong on this next comment because I have a fair amount of 40% myself and do like it, but when was the last time you heard anyone wealthy (let's just say a multimillionaire or better) touting 40% silver? If someone like Kyle Bass (Dallas hedge fund tycoon who bought $1 million in nickels around 2011) would come out publicly and say why they really like 40% halves, then that would add a lot more credibility to them.

[68Camaro]

Haven't heard of #1 and it doesn't make a lot of sense. Copper has a slightly higher melt point but not enough to make a huge difference. If using electrolysis there would be a higher energy cost per value of yield. But the main point of 40% is to be another form of smaller change in a future world. There is a RC member that will trade any coin for bullion at a discount rate and it is the same rate per agw whether 35% 40% 90% or sterling.

As to #2, the point of the thread is to get ahead of a trend not to follow one.

[johnbrickner]

Thanks for the comments! Incorporated several of the comments into a further edit above.

68, glad I could stir some thoughts on the matter.

I have my eye on a stand alone, oil seed/biodiesel mini-refiner that retails for 25k, daily output of 70-100 gallons, and I believe I would be the only kid on the block with one around here.....it was my brothers idea, when I said I wanted draft horses and a a couple of wagons....he disagreed, and brought me around to his thinking, staye blessed 68, n......think production.

Don't know how I missed this from you Neil, but I couldn't agree with your more. The horses are not a bad idea either but with the biodiesel you can keep the Farmall, John Deer or Ford 8-N going for a very, very long time.

Oh and about the 40%, I have a number of them. Stopped when the premium went up to my intolerable level. Same as the 90%.

[neilgin1]

One other positive about 40% silver that I don't see mentioned above. Being much cheaper than 90% silver, it can therefore be used as a cheaper decoy. Let me explain it this way- I work with some people who may think I own silver. If, God forbid, one of them hired a drugged up gun-toting home invader or three to break into my place in the middle of the night and put a gun to my head at 2am, they wouldn't understand it if I said all my silver is stored offsite. But if I give them some cheap decoy silver (i.e., 40%ers, 10% Mexican silver pesos or even counterfeit silver or gold coins that look real to most people), then they have something and I haven't given up that much. The decoys are at home- the good stuff elsewhere.

shoot..give up anything?......(I aint insulting ya Steve) but your hypothetical? a drugged up skeez home invader?....it don't matter WHAT you give them, you are dead, they will kill you....coz you SEEN them. Think about it, anybody wicked and crazy enough to crack a door down, or shimmy a window, you think they have any compunction to rid a potential "witness"?...or even do it just "for fun".

gun up and do it quick, if you haven't already, and get your heart and mind right, it isn't easy to take out another human being, even of they are full of wickedness, murder and mayhem, gotta make your heart COLD in such matters....but top of the pyramid?

OPSEC! ziplock mouth, that's why I;m glad there isn't an LCS in a hundred mile area of me, AND even if their were?....wouldn't go near the place, people always talk, and loose lips sink ships.

for me?...people round here know i'm a sweetheart, good guy, like to laugh, BUT they also think i'm one can shy of a six...GOOD! plus I lead weird hours, might be up and about at 0100,..or asleep, you never know....or I might decide to drive my tractor around at zero dark hundred, star gazing with a Henry lever on my back....just for fun.

and though I don't share a bed with a freeky old gal,i share my bed with another thing,and i'll tell you this, i'd give more thought to stepping on a cockroach, then I would to put some gold dots in the forehead of home invaders.

these days are dark, with the promise of getting darker, you know i'm speaking Truth, prepare accordingly, May God love and protect you, n

[neilgin1]

One other positive about 40% silver that I don't see mentioned above. Being much cheaper than 90% silver, it can therefore be used as a cheaper decoy. Let me explain it this way- I work with some people who know I love silver. If, God forbid, one of them hired a drugged up gun-toting home invader or three to break into my place in the middle of the night and put a gun to my head at 2am, they wouldn't understand it if I said all my silver is stored offsite. But if I give them some cheap decoy silver (i.e., 40%ers, 10% Mexican silver pesos or even counterfeit silver or gold coins that look real to most people), then they have something and I haven't given up that much. The decoys are at home- the good stuff elsewhere.

That's a good point. You don't want people to know you have anything, but it can be difficult to be perfectly quiet about coin storage, so hiding behind some copper cents, nickels, and 40% halves put in the least well-hidden location is a great option.

due respect? you do have to be perfectly quiet, the walking dead are HERE...think i'm nuts? what till this "black Thursday" crowd eats thru their "nine meals" (away from anarchy).....get "Israeli"

[neilgin1]

Thanks for the comments! Incorporated several of the comments into a further edit above.

68, glad I could stir some thoughts on the matter.

I have my eye on a stand alone, oil seed/biodiesel mini-refiner that retails for 25k, daily output of 70-100 gallons, and I believe I would be the only kid on the block with one around here.....it was my brothers idea, when I said I wanted draft horses and a a couple of wagons....he disagreed, and brought me around to his thinking, staye blessed 68, n......think production.

Don't know how I missed this from you Neil, but I couldn't agree with your more. The horses are not a bad idea either but with the biodiesel you can keep the Farmall, John Deer or Ford 8-N going for a very, very long time.

Oh and about the 40%, I have a number of them. Stopped when the premium went up to my intolerable level. Same as the 90%.

Johnny B, for me, its too late to get the 25k together, if we make it to spring, i'm doing poultry in my paddocks and i'm gonna get good copper, make a still and run likker, that'll be worth its weight in gold...and the best thing is, I don't drink alkihol, be well friend, stay safe, n

[NDFarmer]

I like how at the bottom of the video you posted Neil it says "if this compilation made you laugh please like this video". Well it doesn't make me laugh. It makes me cry. If people act like this over a TV imagine how they will react after the collapse happens and a mob of them come for YOUR food and supplies that you have stockpiled? You might have a couple of guns and you can use them but if there are a hundred of them at your door you can only kill so many. You will get overrun and I don't see much you can do about it.