Ungraded Morgan Values - Pics added

[NHsorter]

Do any of you guys have a formula for what you typically would pay for ungraded Morgans? I am looking for advice because I have a guy locally with some good date/good quality Morgans for sale and we are trying to figure out what is a fair price. I want to have room to grade and sell these and make a few bucks in the end. Obviously there is no cut and dry system here, and there is a lot of risk, but I was hoping to pick the brains of some of the experts (cough cough... doc) here to see what you think.

Here are some specifics of what he has and what I am thinking. He said that he took these to a "NGC Dealer" and the guy took out a grading book and showed him the grade of each coin and why each one should get that grade based on the details.

1923S Peace MS65 per dealer - Worth thousands if 65... but if it only gets MS64, now we are talking $300 - Ouch.

1901-S Morgan MS63 per dealer - Fetching $700 on the bay, but only $400 if MS62

1921S Morgan MS-65 - $800 range, but drops to only $150 if it gets 64. Dang.

So if I assume 1 grade lower and then take off the grading fee and the eBay fees, it does not add up to much of an offer for the guy. But he has no interest in getting them graded, so he can't expect a premium. So I am torn on what to do. I don't want to hose the guy and make a couple grand off of him, but I also don't want to get screwed. I know this is a tough call, but I just thought I would see what you guys typically try to do in this situation.

I am working on getting some good pics.

[misteroman]

Give him X amount of money and if you sell them for a huge profit that makes you unformfortable/ hosing him call him back and give him a little more.
Maybe ask him to meet you at your LCS and have the owner take a look at them if he would.
Once again we call out for him..... Chris lol

[NHsorter]

Ha, well maybe I don't mind making a huge profit after all What I am really concerned with is that I don't want to pay too much and end up with some low grade crap. I know the real answer to this is just to "do my homework" or maybe just stay away from this stuff if I don't want to take the risk. I was just wondering if anyone wanted to share experiences that they have had and what is a fair offer for this sort of thing. I could easily just give him a low ball offer and see if he goes for it, but I would like to offer him a fair price without setting myself up for a huge loss either. If possible.

[AGCoinHunter]

Here is a online guide that can help you educate yourself. Most coins hitting those higher grades are super rare (MS-65) which is why they have such a high premium. Yes you can find a gem but as you are stating you have to be careful and know your stuff. Know your wear points on each side and practice.

Here is the link:

http://www.pcgs.com/Photograde

[Rodebaugh]

1923S Peace MS65 per dealer - Worth thousands if 65... but if it only gets MS64, now we are talking $300 - Ouch.
1901-S Morgan MS63 per dealer - Fetching $700 on the bay, but only $400 if MS62
1921S Morgan MS-65 - $800 range, but drops to only $150 if it gets 64. Dang.

1923-S: be careful peace dollars are graded HARD. Finding a raw MS-65 of this coin is like finding all four railroads in the Mcdonalds monopoly game.(takes a lot of frys)
1901-S: This could be a safe buy at 60 or 62 if you are 100% sure it hasn't been messed with. If it has.....you have yourself a $50 coin.
1921-S: A great coin to buy holdered MS-64 and try to get up grades on. Stay away from raw coins until you perfect your eye.

Jason, in short.....don't pay retail/book for high dollar raw morgans......ever.....unless you are very sure of your skills. Otherwise your gambeling and the house always has the advantage. My advive.....buy some common raw morgans and grade them yourself and then submit them to evaluate your eye. Once you feel comfortable and truely understand why coins get what grade the sky is the limit. Also understand that an 1880-O MS 65 can look the same as an 1881-S MS 63+. Each coin of the different mints and years have differant potential and are graded as such under different criteria. I know that makes it a little tougher but recognizing this unlocks some serious profit potential and will also insulate you from buying a 1921-S that looks MS-65 that would actualy grade out at MS-64.

Doc

[NHsorter]

Thank you for the link AG.

Thanks Doc, I was kinda leaning toward the 1901-S as the safest bet since there was not as steep of a drop off in lower MS grades. Great info on the other ones too. I could search the web for hours and still not find info as good as what you just offered. This is new territory for me and I was pretty hesitant. I'm just going to give him a low(safe) offer and if he won't take it I'm gonna walk. I already recommended that he get them graded himself if he wants to maximize his profit. Thanks!!

[tractorman]

That sounds like a good plan, NH. He can't have all the money with none of the risk. I don't know if that's what he wants. If he doesn't take your offer, you can suggest to him to take them back to the dealer to sell. That dealer can put his money where his mouth is, in my opinion.

[NHsorter]

That dealer can put his money where his mouth is, in my opinion.

Exactly, if the dealer is so sure it is a 65, he should have no problem buying it at a healthy discount.

[NHsorter]

Here is a sample of the pics that he just sent to me. Not as nice as I was hoping. I'm starting to think this guy is full if crap or misled. But why would a dealer tell him that he has a 65 when he does not? Funny thing is I just found out that this guy used to work with someone that I know so I'll be making a call tonight to see what his opinion is of the guy. I'm thinking that the wear above the ear on the 1901S is a bit much to be talking MS63. Oh well, these leads come up and I always get over excited. Then reality sets in. Once of these days I'm gonna find a nice deal, I just gotta keep on keeping on I guess.

[hags]

The top two looked cleaned to me, or polished....

hags

[Rodebaugh]

run Jason......RUN!!!!!

Now lets be frank:
I would sell each of those to my clients at $29 each for they are all $hit Cleaned Culls. Don't let the 97 fool you.....its a "SCC" as well.

[dakota1955]

buy them for spot only.

[NHsorter]

When I saw the pics I almost sent him a nasty reply right away but I figured I would post up here first. I think the guy has to just be full of crap. What else could it be? I don't see any dealer telling the guy that he has high value coins when in fact he has crap. What could he gain from that?

Thanks for your opinions guys. Realcent rules!!! I wish this guy saved me the trouble of about 12 long emails by sending me pics up front. I just sent him an email saying that I'm gonna pass and I also asked him the name of the shop that told him those were high grade coins so that I can avoid the place.

One of these days there's gonna be some nice Morgans on their way to WV, I swear.

[Rodebaugh]

Live and learn brother......tuition was free this go around.... (no bad coin buys). Thats much better than learning the hard/exspensive way. That itself is worth smiling about.

[AGCoinHunter]

That top one has been polished more than my grandpa's old '57 chevy. He worked that thing over almost every week of his life. Stay away.


Not that this forum isnt a great resource, I have also used the coin community (coincommunity.com) as a great numismatic resource. Lots of knowledge there also.

[Engineer]

Thanks for the lesson guys.