Is this 1909 VDB in MS condition?

[tractorman]

I know very little about grading coins, and that's probably a very generous statement when it comes to high-grade specimens. I've got this 1909 VDB that's a real nice coin.

OK, I'm from a very small town, no coin shop within miles, I had the flea market twice per year that was my big chance to buy any coins when I was young. I always scraped together whatever money I could ($10 was always good) and I'd usually leave the flea market with a pocketful of junk silver. One year, right about 30 years ago, this 1909 VDB caught my eye and I bought it, less than $5 I'm sure, but I don't remember exactly. It was pretty shiny so I always took care of it. I truly examined it for the first time tonight and it is REALLY nice. I looked at it under the loupe I recently bought and there's basically no wear or marks. I'm sure there is something, but you gotta look REALLY close. I took a couple pics with my cheap digital camera. Also, I pulled out my 8-yr old, $100 at the time, printer/copier/scanner and took scans. The images aren't great, but I'll show 'em to you if you recommend a good free photo host.

[tractorman]

OK, I tried photobucket ... let's see.

[tractorman]

Those scans are harsh, but I guess they kinda show how clean it is. It looks like I have sizing problems with the photo of the obverse, I'll see if I can fix it.

[tractorman]

Here it is. I need a better camera I guess?

[tractorman]

This one looks better.

[tractorman]

So ... do you numis guys think it might fall in the MS range?

[uthminsta]

This one makes me think it's a high AU. But it's hard to tell. All our eagle-eyed graders must be in bed for the night.

[ScottyTX]

It appears that right at the top of the ear on Lincoln that it is starting to flatten from slight wear which is one of the hig points. the hairlines are also not as defined as one would see in a BU example. I would go AU53-55 but I'm not expert there.....

[misteroman]

I would agree with an AU grade as well but would say AU 50

[tractorman]

Thanks guys! The scans don't really show the level of detail, especially in the hair. I'll get the loupe out this evening and look at the ear. Any other high points I should look at?

If I can come up with a picture that shows the coin well, I'll be sure to post it.

[NHsorter]

I have taken a picture through a loupe before with my iPhone and it came out great. Might be worth a try. It worked much better than I expected.

[ed_vantage17]

I'm in the AU camp on this one too. Of course, scans/pics can really highlight flaws. I recently bought an old IHC that looked beat to hell in the pics, but when I got it it was nice and had some nice toning. You might even qualify for a red/brown rating which ups the value a hair.

If you're going to take a picture, use a flash, but put a piece of paper over the it. That will defuse the light a bit and make the picture a lot more like what the eye really sees.

[tractorman]

[tractorman]

Piece of paper over the flash, thanks for that idea Ed!! This one represents the color much better than the others. Shows more of the detail as well. I checked out the ear with the loupe and there is a small spot where the color is a little brighter, like it has been rubbed. So is that how to determine MS vs AU? It has that spot so its AU? Also, how do you determine, within the AU grade, what number it would be?

Thanks!

[uthminsta]

Thats a much better pic! Could we call that a slider? Could it stand a chance at MS?

[ed_vantage17]

My unprofessional opinion : AU53 The wear above the ear and a few visible blemishes (two horizontal nicks on his lapel and one in his beard) are what push it towards the lower end IMHO. Then again I am a VERY tough grader. I'd always err on the side of caution.

[tractorman]

My unprofessional opinion : AU53 The wear above the ear and a few visible blemishes (two horizontal nicks on his lapel and one in his beard) are what push it towards the lower end IMHO. Then again I am a VERY tough grader. I'd always err on the side of caution.

Thanks. If this one had a little curvy mark under the date, it would already be on its way for grading. This is literally my first attempt at grading a coin, therefore I'm trying very hard not to overstate how nice I think it is. I'm pretty sure the horizontal nicks on the lapel are supposed to be there. There is a very small nick on the 1 in 1909. There is a little spot by the D in GOD, and another one in the right-side crook of the Y in LIBERTY, these spots might be safely removed by someone who knew what they were doing.

[ed_vantage17]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Here's a slabbed (PCGS) MS64 on feEbay right now for comparison. You might just have a winner although I think yours is red/brown/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-P-V-D-B-Li ... 5d32009512

[tractorman]

I don't know how to judge the color either. Its not as bright and shiny as the one in the auction, but it does have shine and a deep lustre the pics don't show, especially those harsh scans.

[Rob72830]

Don't try cleaning it. You will ruin the value. That coin is very nice. I would send it in to PCGS or NGC and get it graded and slabbed. Those are the top two coin grading and authentication services in the country. At least you would know if it was AU or MS. Just my 2 cents.

[tractorman]

Oh, I'm not going to clean it. I'm afraid it would likely cost more to have it slabbed than the coin is worth, although I might look into it. I did buy it when I was about 10 yrs old and have had it for 30 years!!

This has been a fun exercise and I sure did learn alot. You guys were very helpful in guiding me along and I appreciate it!!

[Rob72830]

Glad to help. You could put it in an airtite holder to protect it and turn it into a family heirloom to pass down to your kids or grandkids. That is where my 1909 VDB is headed.

[tractorman]

OK, I've decided. I'm going to send it to PCGS. My curiosity is getting the better of me. But first, I'm gonna remove the 2 gunk spots. I know, I know ... DON'T DO IT ... that's all I find searching on Google. From what I've gathered, a soak in pure acetone (with a distiller water rinse?) should do the trick. That's what I'm going to try unless there is a better way. Each of the Google search results that say 'don't do it' go on to say 'leave it to a professional.' Well, I have absolutely no problem standing on the shoulders of giants and I'm confident in my ability to follow a set of directions. What better place to solicit this advise than on Realcent? I've learned so much here already!!

[just carl]

I suggest not wasting money on having that coin slabbed by a TPGS. Just be happy with it and put it in an Album. Paying a possible $20 to have a $20 coin slabbed makes no CENTS. Way to many people spend to much money on having a coin slabbed and when it eventulaly gets sold, no one wants to pay anything extra for that grading and slabbing if only a sort of low valued coin. A 1909 VDB in AU grades is approximately $20 to $25 at almost any coin show.

I put almost all my coins in Albums. They are mine and I do with them all as I like and I like to see them all in Albums.

[tractorman]

Carl - Wow! Great looking pennies you have there. Thanks for the advise. I'm fully aware that slabbing this thing will eat up any $$ that might be realized. I just don't really care because I don't plan to sell it. My curiosity is getting the better of me and I simply think it would be fun to grade it, to find out what it is. MS-state? Cool. AU? Almost just as cool. No big value swing on this one. I've been thinking it might make for a fun contest for the members here too, watch the contest section for that.