Selling PMs - Taxes?

[HelloMeteor]

When you sell PM's do you pay taxes on the gain? I sold gold a while back and reported the gain with Turbo Tax. Hated doing it.

[jasmatk]

if your sale/buy is under 10k the gov need not be involved as far as gains idk. imho leave the fed out of your business

[slickeast]

interesting question. I can't wait to see the answers.

[Thogey]

What PM's? What are you talking about? Check my bank statement. I didn't sell any PM's.
What are you talking about?

[HelloMeteor]

What PM's? What are you talking about? Check my bank statement. I didn't sell any PM's.
What are you talking about?

So if I buy and sell from APMEX, so it can probably all be tracked down, then I should pay taxes? If I do it all with cash, don't worry about it?

[Thogey]

You are supposed to pay taxes on all capital gains. There is probably an exclusion for the first small amount (is the IRS going to tax a garage sale?)

If your are dealing above board, you better keep track of your cost basis and maintain a consistent method FIFO or LIFO.

If you sell more than 600.00 worth to a dealer, starting next year, you will be issued a 1099 and you must be able to prove cost basis, or the IRS can demand tax on your gross sales.

But if your deal is cash, reference my above post.

[argent_pur]

What PM's? What are you talking about? Check my bank statement. I didn't sell any PM's.
What are you talking about?

So if I buy and sell from APMEX, so it can probably all be tracked down, then I should pay taxes? If I do it all with cash, don't worry about it?

You still have a tax obligation regardless of how you pay for your metal should you realize a gain. Do I agree? No! As far as I am concerned, the government put no capital at risk to realize that gain...I did. If the gov't is willing to partially reimburse me for investment losses, I can see imposing a tax on my gains. Anything else is simple thievery. The 10K buying and selling limit only applies to dealers FYI. If you make a buck, even a single dollar, the feds want to know about it. How honest do you want to be?

[jasmatk]

i thought the 10k thing applied to all transactions thats why if you deposit or withdraw 10k they get the irs involved

[Thogey]

The 10k thing merely is a requirement to report the movement of money.

How the 10k is accounted for is your problem.

[HelloMeteor]

So what if I buy from APMEX and sell for cash at a local dealer, is there any real risk to not reporting gains?

[argent_pur]

i thought the 10k thing applied to all transactions thats why if you deposit or withdraw 10k they get the irs involved

That's true, but that has nothing to do with capital gains. It's just the cash transaction that is being reported. If you bought 9K worth of silver a year ago and sold it today for $9,999 technically that transaction doesn't have to be reported by your dealer to the IRS, BUT you still made a capital gain of $999 that the IRS absolutely wants to know about.

[Thogey]

Depends on how your dealer handles the paperwork. If he issues you an invoice, he want to write off the sale. If there is no paper involved, the transaction never happened. But you are still required to report the gain.

If you sell to me for cash I can guarentee no risk.

[argent_pur]

So what if I buy from APMEX and sell for cash at a local dealer, is there any real risk to not reporting gains?

Probably not, but it's still illegal.

YOU HEAR THAT IRS???!!! I tried to tell him! Don't come knockin' on my door, I'm clean

[jasmatk]

What PM's? What are you talking about? Check my bank statement. I didn't sell any PM's.
What are you talking about?

Ok ill stick with this answer

[helix_rider]

BUT you still made a capital gain of $999 that the IRS absolutely wants to know about.

I feel that the IRS gets enough money out of me already. Unless I absolutely have to I won't get them inolved.
If I have no choice, the so be it - otherwise....

[Neckro]

I wouldnt mess with a force that's greater than a God.

[argent_pur]

BUT you still made a capital gain of $999 that the IRS absolutely wants to know about.

I feel that the IRS gets enough money out of me already. Unless I absolutely have to I won't get them inolved.
If I have no choice, the so be it - otherwise....

I like what Mike Maloney says about this subject--"For those who want to make their own rules, I have but these few words: If you choose to play cat and mouse with the government, it will serve you well to remember just who is the mouse."

Helix, I sincerely hope you don't "feel" your way into a nice 10 X 10 with Bubba for tax evasion

[jasmatk]

If you sell more than 600.00 worth to a dealer, starting next year, you will be issued a 1099 and you must be able to prove cost basis, or the IRS can demand tax on your gross sale.

does tis apply to buying i know its not next year but i got abot 850 worth last month from a shop (bunch of ase and junk) and the guy asked my name i told him smith he said first so i jokingly said Mr. he got aggitated but still made the sale i really didnt think twice untill you said this.perhaps he will need these forms for his sales

[Thogey]

The deal with the IRS is: Nobody knows all the rules...nobody, even accounts with the IRS.

File your paperwork, on time, show a profit, give them a cut they, will leave you alone.

Don't go making big cash deposits in the banks to make your mortgage. Use cash for off the book expenses.

Make damn sure the money on the books can be accounted for, especially if self-employed

[Thogey]

If you sell more than 600.00 worth to a dealer, starting next year, you will be issued a 1099 and you must be able to prove cost basis, or the IRS can demand tax on your gross sale.

does tis apply to buying i know its not next year but i got abot 850 worth last month from a shop (bunch of ase and junk) and the guy asked my name i told him smith he said first so i jokingly said Mr. he got aggitated but still made the sale i really didnt think twice untill you said this.perhaps he will need these forms for his sales

Keep your receipts. If you report the sale, when you sell, you'll need them to prove your cost basis.

If you sell to a private party who does not issue paper.

What PM's. Who sold a PM? What are you talking about?

[HelloMeteor]

It seems the solution is to buy AND sell with cash only. Any other way, you better cover your ass. Better to be a little less rich than in prison. Too bad us schmucks have to follow the rules while the Secretary of the Treasury and congressmen can get away anything.

[Thogey]

What PM's? What are you talking about? Check my bank statement. I didn't sell any PM's.
What are you talking about?

[jasmatk]

[rainsonme]

I would advise that no one should advocate anyone avoid taxes on any forum or anywhere else. I am not giving any tax advice to anyone, other than follow the law, and consult a tax advisor if you have one.

That said, I personally don't own any silver other than a couple pieces I occasionally show to co-workers. If I ever buy any silver, I will certainly keep my receipts, and hope that I can match them to the same coins I bought.

I am paranoid (of course this whole thread is populated by paranoids, so maybe in this group I am normal) and I fear that the governemnt would step in to regulate/tax any shaddow currency that gained any significant traction.

Again, not giving any tax adivce, but I do not think the IRS considers anything de minimis, not even garage sales. I think the IRS would like all garage sale receipts listed on tax returns.

On a happy note, I believe when you die, the basis of all your silver and coins will step up to the value at the time of your death --- so you got something to look forward to in that. (again, check with a tax advisor before you decide to die)

[billo]

1. Why are y'all talking about silver, this is a forum for PM-Precious Moments or Potato Mashers right?

2. Anyone who is not involved in politics, elections, etc. is silly and part of the problem. Wise apathy accomplishes the same as ignorant apathy.