PM Dip

[Thogey]

The silver market looks wierd right now.

Nice spike. Somebody must have needed to cover some shorts, and I'd bet that spike triggered a ton of $32.50 sell orders.

Did the guy on the other end of the 32.5 sell just jump off a tall building in Hong Kong?

[inflationhawk]

Where are you getting your quotes?

[Engineer]

Where are you getting your quotes?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html

[inflationhawk]

It happened so fast I never saw it...wasn't looking at the tick-by-tick chart. Yeah, that certainly looks fishy.

[Engineer]

I'm guessing they cranked up the HFTs to get the price up high enough to trigger stops. The question is whether they got their quota of shorts covered for the day, or if they'll need to keep buying.

[Thogey]

I'm guessing they cranked up the HFTs to get the price up high enough to trigger stops. The question is whether they got their quota of shorts covered for the day, or if they'll need to keep buying.

I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff.. So what's the point of doing that?

Or did that venture fail, and there's now a
'used to be rich Chinaman" Who is now a stain on Hong Kong pavement?

[tractorman]

We've seen crazy spikes like that before that turned out to be mistakes in the data.

[Thogey]

We've seen crazy spikes like that before that turned out to be mistakes in the data.

The thing is though, there are a couple steps on the down side of the spike.

[tractorman]

Good point Thogey. I'll have to file this in my "I have no idea" bin ... if I can find room!

[Engineer]

silver.gif (16.82 KiB) Viewed 399 times

[68Camaro]

The response appears over amplified because the scale is small - less than a buck top to bottom, but nonetheless, it's a funky pattern today. Something is going on - I was about to comment on it myself when I saw your post. Some HFT going on after hours tonight, but pushing it UP - and after a rather bizarre day of chutes and ladders. The "London Trader" was earlier commenting that Eastern buyers have learned to play the HFT game and are socking in the physical gold by the hundreds of tons on the dips, and silver proportionally.

[Market Harmony]

... The "London Trader" was earlier commenting that Eastern buyers have learned to play the HFT game and are socking in the physical gold by the hundreds of tons on the dips, and silver proportionally.

It's only a matter of time before that trade becomes so fool-proof that it no longer will work, either. Once the word is out that there is a way to beat the game, the game changes and the late adopters become a meal to the masters.

Keep on keeping on, and you won't have to worry about these mini ups and downs. It's a psychotic market. Predicting its mood will be detrimental to your wallet... or your stack.

[scrapper2010]

Whatever that weird pattern was, it is continuing into today. Looks like at every little time interval there are tons of up and down moves. Never seen that before. Any chart experts that know what the heck is going on?

[68Camaro]

It's a result of "high frequency trading" - computer program trades where they bid and cancel at high rates to cause the market to move.

[SoFa]

These quick moves are a problem for the silver conspiracy writers as they don't know which article to publish (the one about manipulation or should they dust off the one where it says the manipulators took the day off?).

Some interesting reading in my opinion:
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.com. ... ht-on.html
Seems King World News doesn't like to be quoted in some cases.

[68Camaro]

Hmmm, there are at least two types of ID'd manipulation, which are obviously present in the data. HFT and naked shorting. Both capable of affecting the market differently.

Both sides of this debate fail in attempting to definitively attribute cause when they can't be sure what the cause is - both sides are speculating. So both sides have to be taken with a grain of salt - there is hyperbole to had everywhere (even in the link just posted). Both sides exaggerate, and you have to be discerning in what you believe, and don't believe.

But the market itself - regardless of who is doing what, or why, it is clearly being pulled in different directions by large powers with unknown specific motives (other than some type of advantage, as one doesn't participate without seeking some advantage). A natural market doesn't behave these ways.

[68Camaro]

Regardless of who or why, just in today's action alone you can see specific patterns that represent (at different times) both HFT and shorting action, in a single day.

silver.gif (18.4 KiB) Viewed 295 times

[Engineer]

Just a guess...but I'll call a sharp drop at the NY Globex open.

[rexmerdinus]

nice call! I can't figure out how to post the gif, but it dropped!

[SilverDragon72]

Stock market futures are dragging PMs down... gold is down $50 and silver is down $1.70. If the stock market drops some more, it's going to pull PMs down with it. If you're going to buy, buy small and keep lots of powder dry for when it goes lower.

I'm going to load up more fake silver with derivatives. It's been pretty easy money the last SEVERAL times this happened.

You have big gonads Barry. I'll stick with physical. Good luck to you.

Derivatives. That word makes me sick when I hear that....is it really a good idea to invest in these, considering what's happened in the financial world because of them? Not a good idea in my book! Give me physical holdings ANYDAY

[SoFa]

If there is silver manipulation, who's getting hurt by it?

[beauanderos]

If there is silver manipulation, who's getting hurt by it?

The mining companies and shareholders... for one.

[theo]

If there is silver manipulation, who's getting hurt by it?

Also, anybody who comes to the conclusion that PMs are "too volatile" and instead invests in U.S. Treasuries.