Floating an idea....Loaning a Ryedale

[Copper Catcher]

Here is an idea….I'd like your comments. Poke holes in this for me to see where I might have missed something....

I've got a Ryedale Apprentice not being used at the moment and I'm considering making the offer to loan out this new machine to enable someone to upgrade from sorting by hand to using a super fast machine. (A $500 value)

My idea is this...For collateral I'd ask that the person first send 15 ounces of .999 silver either coins or bars. Then I'd ship them the machine to use for a period of six months.

In this agreement I expect either a monthly payment of $50 a month or the option of sending $10.00 in wheat pennies, no culls but readable dates. Both would be sent post paid by the end of each month.

If the person defaults by missing a payment a penalty of three ounces of silver would be accessed for every payment missed up to the entire amount of fifteen ounces.

At the end of six months you would have the option to buy the machine for $150 cash or return the machine. Upon return of the machine or purchase of the machine, the silver sent for collateral less any portion used for non-payment would be returned.

[barrytrot]

So they would buy the machine for only $450? (6 x 50) + (150).

That sounds like a good deal.

[tn-dave]

If we weren't getting really serious about getting rid of the credit card debt I'd jump on this offer. But right now almost every extra cent is devoted to the CC balances.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

Seems like a pretty good deal to me. Of course a person would have sort a lot of pennies to come up with that $10 in wheat cents every month.

[Bigsarge]

I'm interested in this. How would a breakage be handled on the machine? I only have a sniper, so not sure what kind of track record these have. Also, any penalty for paying off early?

[Copper Catcher]

Since the machine is new and only a few dollars has been run throught I would think breakage would be unlikely. But if it did and the person could not fix it they could send it back with no penality and get a full refund.

I might have to look again to make sure I am not cheating myself...reference paying off early. I agree that finding $10 in wheat pennies would be difficult. But if you did sort for wheats and got them for only a penny paying $10.00 a month for six months; the person only has $60 face invest and paying $150 that is only $210 for a $500 machine. Again, I'm probably screwing myself on this.

I want it to be a win/win for both of us....but understand the machine can't be full retail too if I plan on selling this.

If this was not sold but just rented on a monthly basis what do folks think would be a fair rental amount?

[DebtFreeMe]

Given that its used, $450 would be a good price up front, but given that you should price in your time for having neither the full amount of the money nor the use of your machine for up to 6 months, I would probably make the price a little higher, to compensate for that time ($500 total if you're looking to sell).

Now if you're going just for a rental type situation, you may want to drop your monthly price, say to $40, and just let it be a rental agreement straight out (while still holding collateral)... On the other hand you could do a rent to own type of thing, in that case you may want to price the monthly rents higher, say $50 and in the end have a lump some due... So for an RTO type setup, you could have a situation with a required 6 monthly payments of $50, with an option to buy with a lump some due of $200 at the end of the term (RTO's are generally more expensive) or an option to go say another 3 months with the rental and then have another option to buy with a $200 lump some.

It really depends on what you want to do. If your looking to sell, you could set it up as a buy now or RTO... I think the rental thing is a great idea... I always like things that pay long term and provide a benefit both to my client and myself... I would go more with the rental than anything else.

I might pick up a second one just to do this....

DFM

[PMLurker]

I think you are placing too high a value on common wheats. If I were to participate in a deal like this, I doubt I would send any wheats earlier than 1950. Do you normally buy common wheats at 5 cents each? I will sell you common wheats all day long for 5 cents each. Let me know how many you want.

While this is a forum that is bullish on PMs including silver, you are taking on risk in holding 15 toz of silver as collateral.

What do you do if silver goes to 25? Or 15? Do you demand more collateral? Or do you hedge with a paper short?

If silver goes to 40 or 50 or higher, I doubt the leasee will want you to hold their more valuable silver and will return the machine early.

[Copper Catcher]

DebtFreeMe & PMLurker great ideas & questions...

The last time I bought any wheats I paid between .03 to .035 each. As far as sliver prices going down in the short term. You are correct it is a risk that the silver could decrease in value. However I would try to make sure I was in a postion that I could hold it and not have to sell it so I could ride it back up if that happened.

[Madwest]

If I knew someone locally who would do the pickup and dumping, I would do the sorting for as little as 1/3 of the take.

My field agent(s) would bring me bulk (unwrapped) mixed cents - say $200 face. I would give them back all of the Zn ($144), half to 2/3 of the Cu ($28-$37), and cash equal to face value of the Cu I kept ($19-$28). I'd get $20+ worth of Cu at face value with no leg work.

Not sure it something like that is an option for you.??

For me, there is nothing to sorting. I have the kinks worked out of my home-brew Frankensorter to the point that it is hands-off. I stay in the same room with it to make sure I could hear it if it clogged, but I am free to do anything else I desire (edge sorting halves, date sorting nickels, tinkering on the bench with whatever). My hopper holds an entire coin-lock bag ($50 face). The catch bins can overflow though if I don't tend them about 10min in. The $50 face is generally gone in about 20min. I do have to stir it near the end if I want the hopper to fully empty. If I'm just going to add more cents, I don't bother stirring the residual coins out of the hopper.

[NHsorter]

If I knew someone locally who would do the pickup and dumping, I would do the sorting for as little as 1/3 of the take.

My field agent(s) would bring me bulk (unwrapped) mixed cents - say $200 face. I would give them back all of the Zn ($144), half to 2/3 of the Cu ($28-$37), and cash equal to face value of the Cu I kept ($19-$28). I'd get $20+ worth of Cu at face value with no leg work.

Not sure it something like that is an option for you.??

For me, there is nothing to sorting. I have the kinks worked out of my home-brew Frankensorter to the point that it is hands-off. I stay in the same room with it to make sure I could hear it if it clogged, but I am free to do anything else I desire (edge sorting halves, date sorting nickels, tinkering on the bench with whatever). My hopper holds an entire coin-lock bag ($50 face). The catch bins can overflow though if I don't tend them about 10min in. The $50 face is generally gone in about 20min. I do have to stir it near the end if I want the hopper to fully empty. If I'm just going to add more cents, I don't bother stirring the residual coins out of the hopper.

I like this idea.

[barrytrot]

Madwest's idea does have merit.

[Engineer]

I've been thinking of something similar to Madwest's idea, but with a slightly different twist.

Quite a few of your "customers" would be greedy with their coppers, and would be willing to pay a higher price in leftover zincs. Others would want to sell the coppers for a profit, and you could sell them to your other customers on a consignment basis (something like the cost of shipping a CTU). By setting up a dual tier pricing structure along with a consignment shop, you could:

a. Get paid in Cu and hoard it
b. Get paid in Cu and sell it to your customers
c. Get paid in Zn and use that to buy Cu
d. Get paid in Zn and dump that for a source of income

If copper sorting went well, you could expand into dimes, which would open up the Ag market.

[Copper Catcher]

If anyone else wants to piggyback on this idea and go ahead and rent or rent to own your machine please feel free to do so. You are in no way stepping on my toes. At this point I was just trying to see what the interest might be on the board. I'm sure there will be lots of folks lined up to take ALL offers. You can post your offer here or start a new thread over in the market place which ever you think would get the most attention.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

I was thinking of going for your original offer if noone else jumps for it. I hoard Ryedales ya know!

[Cu Lung]

Aren't new Ryedales 400 to start?

[DebtFreeMe]

Generally closer to 450-500 for the Ryedale apprentice.

[DebtFreeMe]

For those that may be interested in this I actually have this available, with a little bit lower collateral requirement and a lower payment than was discussed here, and some of the concerns clarified.

You can see it in this this post viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14333