copper penny selling price

[wackzingo]

Gold and Silver have always been used as the primary means of storing wealth but copper hasn't which is why it doesn't matter what form Gold and Silver is found. Copper has never in the history of the world ever been used as a means of storing wealth in the way Gold and Silver has been. Copper is used for creating things such as copper pipe, copper wire, industrial hardware, and even coins. Copper is no more useful for storing wealth than any other material which could be used such as aluminum. People don't buy copper to store wealth, they buy it to use it. The only people interested in buying it to store wealth are the kind of people on these forums who are speculating that copper will skyrocket in price and they'll be able to sell it at a large profit. Copper has no more connection Gold and Silver as a store of wealth than zinc, manganese, led, or any other metal they could use to make coins. With talk of eliminating the cent altogether, why aren't you hoarding zinc? Gold & Silver has a special place in the world as a means of storing wealth and you are seriously mistaken if you think copper will act the same way. Copper never has been and never will be even close to as rare as other precious metals and as the price of copper rises so will the price of everything else (ie. Gold & Silver).

I'm not suggesting you don't hoard them because you will be able to at least double your money if not more by selling them as scrap or refining them if you have extremely large amounts (at least 20 tons), but don't count on selling them to investors wanting to protect their wealth it just won't happen.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I sell a few hundred pounds a week at 1.8 x face. I do this to build my frn's to buy more loose to sort.

I also search halves. I sell the 40% and the "brass" to buy 90% or .999 with the profits.

What reasons you have to hold copper cents or not to hold is your own. Time, costs, availability to get and dump, and many other factors have to be considered.

I am not going to try to sway anyone in either direction.

Hey Slick,

I am with the Spikeanator, where do you sell for 1.8x face? If I could get that price.... I most likely would not have started this topic!

[.02FYI]

[quote="Mooski"]Let's say that you think that you can sell Cu pennies at 4x face.

Cu for face value .01
Current value at spot copper excl zinc value (4.3234 × .00220462262 × 3.11 × .95) = $0.0281602

So to get to .04 cents in 10 years then you only increasing by factor of 1.42
To get the current values of the pennies to double and then double again you would have to have copper value closer to .1120 each.

'Rule of 72' ,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72 You would be taking out the percentages you loose to cost of fees for pennies, fees for accounts, gas to bank, loss of time while sorting, other expenese overhead for equipment, misc materials etc... So I agree in theory that it is better idea to have you money double every 5 years but then at least we should discuss the actual numbers, IMVHO.

Some money in bank is good idea as it is currency and you can pay bills with it and you don't have to haul the zincs back etc.. Now I'm speaking for myself. If all you money is in copper more power to you.
Yes to have money in metal not receiving interest I agree with you theory that it is better to have it in appreciating assets. But some wiser members might allow more on interst dividends, stocks and how to increase you funds in paper. Not my area of expertise.
.o2fyi

[appjoe]

You're making the assumption they are worth more based on speculation.

I don't think so. Please go to http://www.coinflation.com/. There at Coinflation you will see the melt value of copper pennies is 2.47 cents. The actual melt value is 2.47633 times it's face value. Now, subtract out the zinc (5%) and you get 2.3435135 times face. Now allow for 15% refiners' fee. That leaves the true melt value of the copper in the penny at 1.999636475x face. Or, like I have said before... right around 2x face. Now, those are facts, not assumptions or speculation.

I am aware of coinflation but the problem is the penny or cent is not copper it's brass; 95% copper + 5% zinc is Red Brass. The average buy price of Red Brass is about 1/2 of the copper spot price. I can take in 1lb of Red Brass pipe fittings to any major scrap metal dealer and although it contains $3.42 worth of copper, they only give me $1.60-$2/lb.. Based on the actual scrap metal value they are really worth 1.4 times face value. There has been speculation that copper will rise to as much as $6/lb. next year which would put them at about 2 times face value. The true value of something is determined by what someone is actually willing to pay. In the silver market the spot price of silver has been about $26-$28/oz. for the past few weeks, yet Silver has consistently been selling for $30 to $33 per oz. and that is true value of 1 oz.. The fact is a penny is red brass and scrap dealers pay much less than the copper value. You are speculating that copper will rise in price and there will be buyers willing to pay the full copper price.

Gold and Silver have been used throughout history to store wealth. This is why silver coins don't need to be melted because the form doesn't really matter (ie. 40% or 90%). Copper is an industrial metal and it's use in monetary systems has always been practical (ie. Gresham's Law); There is a fundamental difference between Gold & Silver's use in a monetary system and copper's. When a currency collapses people return to Gold & Silver to store their wealth and to hedge against inflation not copper, zing, nickel, etc.. Copper will rise, but only because industrial demand is greater than the supply and therefore if legalized, pennies will be melted down just like any other scrap. Zinc and nickel are used in coins but that doesn't mean we will begin seeing zinc bullion.

Having said that, I do collect copper cents because I am speculating that someday it will be legal to melt them and therefore I can sell them as scrap at a greater price than I paid for them.

Red brass is both an American term for the copper-zinc-tin alloy known as gunmetal, and an alloy which is considered both a brass and a bronze. It typically contains 85% copper, 5% tin, 5% lead, and 5% zinc.

Our copper cent is 95% copper and 5% zinc That is not the make up of red brass

[ScottyTX]

I'm more than certain I've seen many post on here that 95% copper goes for #2 copper. Maybe thats wrong but I have never researched it.

[cwgii]

then again, there are those of us that are doing this as ocd treatment. i handsort. so 100.00 takes me about 10 hours. at my 16% cu... it takes 600$ or 60 hours. to get about 95 cu to sell for net profit of 30....... which does not begin to pay for gas.

[pennypicker]

then again, there are those of us that are doing this as ocd treatment. i handsort. so 100.00 takes me about 10 hours. at my 16% cu... it takes 600$ or 60 hours. to get about 95 cu to sell for net profit of 30....... which does not begin to pay for gas.

I agree. I'm also at a 16% cu rate so with that low of a rate and considering all the time and gas there just isn't any profit for me being a hand sorter. So I do it simply for its relaxing benefits and the thrill of the hunt.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Red brass is both an American term for the copper-zinc-tin alloy known as gunmetal, and an alloy which is considered both a brass and a bronze. It typically contains 85% copper, 5% tin, 5% lead, and 5% zinc.

Our copper cent is 95% copper and 5% zinc That is not the make up of red brass

I looked it up. 95% copper and 5% zinc is called "gliding metal" or "gilding metal"( I can't remember which). It is used for full metal jackets on bullets and compression type rings on artillery shells. It is the softest form of brass.

What the hell! If you want to collect brass cents... collect brass cents! Some people collect stamps. Some collect beer bottles. Etc., etc.....

[slickeast]

where do you get someone paying 1.8x face? I would send you pennies at 1.7x face..

Now why would I buy at 1.7 and sell at 1.8 when I get them for 1¢ each?

I have sold 110 lbs this week for 1.87x face. Or about $140 profit.

Take away gas and figure the time spent to pickup and dump along with sorting time I make about $20/hr.

I also get them loose, use 3 Ryedales and dump loose