PM Rally

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Re: PM Rally

Postby 68Camaro » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:57 am

NHsorter wrote:I can't be the only thick headed one on here, so I'm going to do a public service and request that someone please post in plain English what JFF is trying to say in his last post. I am taking this as a bearish post. Are we in for a correction now?


Only JFF knows what he meant for sure, but here's how I interpreted it. Mind your risk. Don't overextend. Don't do stupid things. Due your own due diligence. Pay attention. JFF isn't responsible for any decisions you make on this information. Etc, etc.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby NHsorter » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:07 am

I get that, and I am not going to blame anyone. The decisions that I make are my own and are based on a wide variety of input. His comment just seemed almost like a reversal. If it is a reversal, my next question would be what evidence does he have to indicate that? But I would just be happy with an answer to the first question :D

Thanks for the reply Camaro!
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Re: PM Rally

Postby tedandcam » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:10 am

68Camaro wrote:
NHsorter wrote:I can't be the only thick headed one on here, so I'm going to do a public service and request that someone please post in plain English what JFF is trying to say in his last post. I am taking this as a bearish post. Are we in for a correction now?


Only JFF knows what he meant for sure, but here's how I interpreted it. Mind your risk. Don't overextend. Don't do stupid things. Due your own due diligence. Pay attention. JFF isn't responsible for any decisions you make on this information. Etc, etc.



Thats exactly how I took it also 68. I had to think for a second although.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby NHsorter » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:30 am

:lol: OK, maybe I was over thinking it. Guess I should just calm down and enjoy the ride instead of trying to time every wiggle!
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Re: PM Rally

Postby beauanderos » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:08 am

NHsorter wrote::lol: OK, maybe I was over thinking it. Guess I should just calm down and enjoy the ride instead of trying to time every wiggle!

Hey Jason....

Image

time this :lol:
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Re: PM Rally

Postby Jonflyfish » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:30 pm

68Camaro wrote:
NHsorter wrote:I can't be the only thick headed one on here, so I'm going to do a public service and request that someone please post in plain English what JFF is trying to say in his last post. I am taking this as a bearish post. Are we in for a correction now?


Only JFF knows what he meant for sure, but here's how I interpreted it. Mind your risk. Don't overextend. Don't do stupid things. Due your own due diligence. Pay attention. JFF isn't responsible for any decisions you make on this information. Etc, etc.

Yes. +1!!!!!!....and hedge when the market shows its hand.

Cheers!
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Re: PM Rally

Postby slickeast » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:35 pm

Too many green days in a row. I believe friday we will see some red. If we don't, monday might get ugly.

This is all a guess from the worst market timer in the world. I sold $200 fv of 90% last week. (do the math)
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Re: PM Rally

Postby barrytrot » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:54 pm

Of course "an ugly Monday" would still bring us back to the recent high of 29. So not terribly bad.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby CtrlAltBernanke » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:50 pm

Peter Schiff:
IMPORTANT MESSAGE: GOLD BREAKS OUT — FED PLANS QE III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC-XZJK0 ... re=g-all-c
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Re: PM Rally

Postby brian0918 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:46 pm

When the Euro collapses and everyone flocks to the dollar to pay off their dollar-denominated debt, *then* we will see precious metals collapse in price. That's when it's time to go all-in.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby barrytrot » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:47 pm

brian0918 wrote:When the Euro collapses and everyone flocks to the dollar to pay off their dollar-denominated debt, *then* we will see precious metals collapse in price. That's when it's time to go all-in.


Most of that is already figured-in to the price already.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby brian0918 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:02 pm

barrytrot wrote:
brian0918 wrote:When the Euro collapses and everyone flocks to the dollar to pay off their dollar-denominated debt, *then* we will see precious metals collapse in price. That's when it's time to go all-in.


Most of that is already figured-in to the price already.


I would have thought the financial crisis clearly put an end to this notion that the market has "priced in" the full consequences of potential future events, or even partially so.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby NHsorter » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:05 pm

Why would the financial crisis stop people from using judgement and probability to gauge the future value of investments?
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Re: PM Rally

Postby barrytrot » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:08 pm

brian0918 wrote:
barrytrot wrote:
brian0918 wrote:When the Euro collapses and everyone flocks to the dollar to pay off their dollar-denominated debt, *then* we will see precious metals collapse in price. That's when it's time to go all-in.


Most of that is already figured-in to the price already.


I would have thought the financial crisis clearly put an end to this notion that the market has "priced in" the full consequences of potential future events, or even partially so.


The extent of the "financial crisis" was not figured in because the extent was unknown. The layers of the onion kept pealing for a few months.

Europe's woes are a lot better established.

But, you are right that the extent could be worse, and naturally the "event" will have some impact, probably a large impact on many areas.

Lastly, the dollar looks good compared to the Euro, but when global collapse is occurring the dollar probably loses a little bit of it's luster.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby brian0918 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:10 pm

NHsorter wrote:Why would the financial crisis stop people from using judgement and probability to gauge the future value of investments?

Oh, it certainly wouldn't stop them, but the financial crisis just showed that people aren't very good at predicting long-term consequences, particularly when they are drunk on easy credit and artificially-low interest rates. Very few economists predicted this event, and hardly any did so years in advance - yet almost everyone agrees that more debt is the solution, not less, clearly demonstrating that they have no understanding of the fundamental causes of the crisis.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby brian0918 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:17 pm

barrytrot wrote:The extent of the "financial crisis" was not figured in because the extent was unknown. The layers of the onion kept pealing for a few months.


Yes, but the crisis didn't just suddenly occur. It's been building up for a century, and in particular in the last several decades since we left the gold standard completely and started massive amounts of malinvestment and capital destruction, as the Fed drove interest rates toward zero. No top economist predicted this event more than a few years in advance, yet the signs would have been clear if they had looked at the fundamentals.

If top economists aren't making accurate predictions, then who exactly is "pricing-in" these future events?
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Re: PM Rally

Postby Jonflyfish » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:47 pm

Several folks have been talking about the "next financial crisis" and how the 2008-9 PM selloff was just a taste of what is to come.
I strongly disagree. The 2008-9 "financial crisis" was liquidity driven. When the Euro goes hooves up or more likely gets a serious case of mad cow disease, it will be due to credibility and structural issues as a failed fiat collusion experiment. When people bail en masse asset safety and credibility will be targeted. The question is- When the currency is failing why would you sell PM's to own more currency instead of buying more PM's to own less currency?
Many folks arguing for another PM price collapse also have cited reasons of owning PM's due to perpetual dilution of the USD fiat. So, when a fiat is in frantic exodus why would PM's fall instead of skyrocket?

Cheers!
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Re: PM Rally

Postby Jonflyfish » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:55 pm

As a side note- Folks are talking about the fed and QE3 since the minutes were released. I'm keeping a careful eye on crude oil and the cracks. QE3 would push crude at even higher levels and would squeeze the juice out of the economy. I think QE3 isn't likely anytime soon because of this. The fed has their backs against the wall and that leaves the administration at risk during an election year. Unless there is renewed talk of SPE releases, crude remains a real focal point. If SPE releases are rumored again then there is panic at the top and it won't be enough to cure anyway. The sweet-sour backwardation still exists, showing signs of a global, not domestic concern. It would only be a drop in the bucket and not sustainable.

If I'm wrong and QE3 happens soon, prices at the pump and just about everything else (except wages) would soar to levels that would create mayhem in the streets. Not a winning combination when the floating base currency is still tight and unemployment remains high.

Cheers!
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Re: PM Rally

Postby Engineer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:03 am

Nice points Jon.

For the next QE to be effective (IMHO), the government would have to get it into the hands of the public rather than the banks who would use it to bid up the markets. Unfortunately their last attempt at this method backfired when people used the money to pay down debt rather than spend it. To really make it work, they'd need to send out debit cards which couldn't be used to pay bills.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby Jonflyfish » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:12 am

Engineer wrote:Nice points Jon.

For the next QE to be effective (IMHO), the government would have to get it into the hands of the public rather than the banks who would use it to bid up the markets. Unfortunately their last attempt at this method backfired when people used the money to pay down debt rather than spend it. To really make it work, they'd need to send out debit cards which couldn't be used to pay bills.


Thanks engineer. I agree with you. The floating base currency is still very tight. However, when the fractional reserve engine begins to fire at all cylinders, this will also mean economic expansion, which will also surely cause inflation. It is no secret but the fed and the current administration are in a lose-lose predicament. The bubbles continue to shift without the general public's participation nor benefit, but even worse...mostly at their expense.

Cheers!
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Re: PM Rally

Postby 68Camaro » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:46 am

Good thoughts JFF and engineer. I appreciate your insights. "it's no secret..." to thinking people, but the typical person on the street has no idea. I've been trying to wake up some of my friends and neighbors and it's not easy. I'm having some success finally; some are starting to become aware of what's going on for the first time, and are shocked, and frightened. But that just illustrates that most people still have no clue and are ill-prepared.

It appears to me we are near a tipping point which could come from several places (or more than one), but I allow the possibility that there could be one more short shallow cycle of attempted stimulus, which when found to be ineffective, will itself be the tipping point.

I believe the Fed is looking for a knob to turn, but I think they are afraid to turn anything at this point except continue to prop up the Euro and buy Treasuries. Huge amounts of "cash" were absorbed into the system and large parts of that were made illiquid (if that's a word) for the purpose of offsetting losses. But there are still huge cash balances waiting to leak out. The government is already trying everything indirect that they can outside of the real estate market to pump cash in - supported by the Fed buying the government debt. Trillions in subsidies, unemployment, state grants, student loans, easy car loans, easy credit cards. As I note above, I tend to think "something" else will be attempted that will be pitched as "safe", and it might cause a brief bump up in the markets and some MSM talk of recovery again, but it will backfire and either start the domino train itself, or else indirectly lead to loss of confidence that will have the same effect. And that's only if Europe doesn't kick the domino over first.

On another note, I think we're past the "black swan" stage. Collapse of some sort is inevitable, and the only question to me is which of several possible directions will it come from. Is that unknown specific event a black swan, when we know something is coming? Not something I'm really into debating.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby 68Camaro » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:50 am

Jonflyfish wrote:Unless there is renewed talk of SPE releases, crude remains a real focal point. If SPE releases are rumored again then there is panic at the top and it won't be enough to cure anyway.


I think we agree? that any SPE releases, or talk of them, are emotional band-aides useful only for media impact, for a short time. It indicates to me the extent of desparation. Which, I think, is what you are saying as well?
In the game of Woke, the goal posts can be moved at any moment, the penalties will apply retroactively and claims of fairness will always lose out to the perpetual right to claim offense.... Bret Stephens
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Re: PM Rally

Postby tedandcam » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:14 am

Wow! Keep up this conversation guys. I am an uneducated noob of meager resources just trying to understand things as best I can, to protect my wife and 3 teenage children. A few questions for you all so that I can keep up with my eves dropping :oops:

1- What is SPE (our US oil reserves)?

2- What is MSM ?

3- What is "black swan"? This term intrigues me the most


Thanks for all you guys have done to help keep me off the golf course :lol:


PS I did buy 25 ASE in Dec or Jan at $28-$29 and again 25 more last weekend at $28. Silver just looked cheap at those points in time and I had a few bucks. In between I and my son have been sorting dimes and nickels $1000 per week.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby 68Camaro » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:31 am

SPE should be SPR - Strategic Petroleum Reserve (US) (on my part, a typo - R and E being next to each other - maybe JFF as well)

MSM - mainstream media

Black swan - a game-changing event which is seemingly unexpected and previously believed impossible. Term history starts in the middle age Europe. The only swans known in the western world were white, so "black swan" was a figure of speech used to mean somehting that was impossible. Only when Australia was discovered centuries later did they realize that there are actually black swans. It morphed into the current use.
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Re: PM Rally

Postby beauanderos » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:31 am

tedandcam wrote:Wow! Keep up this conversation guys. I am an uneducated noob of meager resources just trying to understand things as best I can, to protect my wife and 3 teenage children. A few questions for you all so that I can keep up with my eves dropping :oops:

1- What is SPE (our US oil reserves)?

2- What is MSM ?

3- What is "black swan"? This term intrigues me the most


Thanks for all you guys have done to help keep me off the golf course :lol:


PS I did buy 25 ASE in Dec or Jan at $28-$29 and again 25 more last weekend at $28. Silver just looked cheap at those points in time and I had a few bucks. In between I and my son have been sorting dimes and nickels $1000 per week.


yes
mainstream media
an event that completely changes the course of the prior status quo, completely unexpected at the time it occurs

keep stacking 8-)

don't worry, Noob... questions are par for the course :lol:

and your resources can't be that meager if you're out flogging the little white orb :?
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