What do you pay for silver?

[knibloe]

I have the opportunity to buy 30 rolls of silver dimes, Morgans, foreign coins and sterling flatware. I want to be fair and I also want to make a good deal for myself. I have called around and found that the "we buy gold" folks in this area are paying 60% to 80% of melt. I like to buy for 80% of melt if I can. I feel that 80% of melt covers me if there is a price drop, and allows me to make a profit. It also matches what I see as the top end of what others are paying. I know that they could get higher prices one-bay, but that woudl involve work on their part and they would lose a % in fees. What is the % that goes to fees when selling on e-bay. They could also come on here get melt value, but who here would buy from a newbie and generally the people want to liquidate. They don't want to establish a relationship on Realcent and then sell online...

1. Is 80% fair for the 90%
2. What should I pay for the foreign?
3. How would you price flatware.
4. If I see coins with numismatic value, I do disclose that and generally am not interested and tell them so.

Your thoughts please. If you disagree with my position, that it o.k., but please keep it civil.

Thanks

[Treetop]

80% is fair imo. Just an opinion though. Everyones will differ.

Id point out though, its super easy to sell silver to apmex or through bullion direct and some others depending on the amount. The person would get over 80%. Its this persons fault for not studying what they have though, just thought Id point it out. Honestly though anything both the buyer and seller agree to is fair. It just might not be ethical. Everyone draws the line in a different place. Personally I think anything above 65 percent is a decent offer. I offer more then this myself, but I wouldnt consider that mean or whatever.

[db23]

Provident offers ~ 96% of spot on junk, I'd work around that for your level of fairness. Nothing wrong with making a profit, just be honest with yourself about how good of a deal you are or aren't giving them.

Using Ebay and all their fees as the comparison is equal to going to the dealer for an insurance estimate IMO.

[xippi]

I usually knock off %15 percent off the final Price on Ebay, Sell something for 100 with free ship you might see 85 after postage, PP fees 3%, and Ebay Final Value Fees.

Xip

[Chaboo]

Provident offers ~ 96% of spot on junk, I'd work around that for your level of fairness. Nothing wrong with making a profit, just be honest with yourself about how good of a deal you are or aren't giving them.

I like that. ...plus, it sounds like you know the person. What happens to your relationship if they dig around and find out what they could get for them and your offer's a lot less?
You could also sell them for a commission if you're not keeping them. Then there's no danger for you to lose money. I've done that and thoroughly enjoyed it. Just be honest to the buyer and seller.
Good luck...

[Oakair]

I pay the least I can.

[Engineer]

From a stacker's point of view rather than that of a flipper:

What I'm willing to pay depends on what the spot price happens to be at the moment. If I think it's too low, I might pay a little above spot. If I think it's getting ready to drop, I'd be looking for a percentage that wouldn't put me upside down in the near future.

IMHO, buying the dip is more important than focusing on a certain percentage below spot.

[Rosco]

If you check some rolls for count an then weigh all dimes Rolls they will then see the variance on rolls. Look weigh an check diameter on all Morgans, if possible numi look together in Red book or what you have but do not over grade . Offer to sell for commission at least 10 %. Do you Know how to post pictures what is your feedback.
alternate is Value ? red book an let them go to Coin shop.
To me 90% is Fair and tell them That is your goal on Buying.

Good Luck

[knibloe]

Provident offers ~ 96% of spot on junk, I'd work around that for your level of fairness. Nothing wrong with making a profit, just be honest with yourself about how good of a deal you are or aren't giving them.

I like that. ...plus, it sounds like you know the person. What happens to your relationship if they dig around and find out what they could get for them and your offer's a lot less?
You could also sell them for a commission if you're not keeping them. Then there's no danger for you to lose money. I've done that and thoroughly enjoyed it. Just be honest to the buyer and seller.
Good luck...

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. This is the sister of someone I have know a long time. I intend to tell them what spot is and make my offer. They will then be informed and can decide if they like the offer or not (Easy, anonymous, cash vs higher $, effort, and paperwork) . My point is that in most cases, there is no way for them to get spot. The discounts off of spot that they will get range from 4 to 40%. Until today, I had never looked at selling to APMEX or Provident. I was suprised to learn that their discounts were in the 4-5% range (+shipping and hassle). Knowing this, my offer to them will be higher than 80%.

The second part of my question, how would you put a value on the silver flatware?

[CardsNCoins]

I only pay face so don't go by me.

[reddirtcoins]

Well, $199 for my last roll of 2012 ASE and for me, that was a lot!

[Rodebaugh]

1. Is 80% fair for the 90%.........................80-90% spot
2. What should I pay for the foreign?...........60-90% spot (depends on purity)
3. How would you price flatware.................80% spot
4. If I see coins with numismatic value, I do disclose that and generally am not interested and tell them so........pay a premium but leave plenty of room for a forced sale that still yeilds profit.

[wheeler_dealer]

Kitco.com. refiners buy price miinus at least 10 to 20 % for time and trouble. No paperwork means no capital gains for them. Make a reasonable offer and let her counter. I imagine they have some idea of value.

[Beau]

.
if you know the people it is better to let someone else buy their coins.

I helped a friend sell there collection before I found this site.
silver was at 10 times face then, so I took care of them selling to a dealer that I knew.
i sold mine too.

then 2 months later they found out that silver was at 15 times face value it was because silver had went up, but they are mad at me over the sale.

so don`t get your self into a deal like this if you know the people and want to keep them as friends.
i told them that I had sold mine too and silver had went up which I didn`t expect silver would go up since silver had been flat so long.


if you want to keep friends make your own decision.

I wish I had never helped the people, I made exactly 0 on this deal and lost friends.



.

[Bham]

That's terrible Beau, but you are so right. A close friend told an elderly widow friend of his to call me about selling her silver to me. On one hand I can see an opportunity to pick up some cheap shiny, but thankfully my conscience tells me to bail out and hope she won't call. If she does call, I won't have a choice but to spend a huge amount of time educating her and looking after her transaction so she won't get ripped off. I could easily buy it but it's a no win situation.

Regardless of the deal, there are plenty of people that will pay melt for 90%. Good luck, this is a tough one!

[pennypicker]

I pay $3 over spot for mint ASE's from my local coin shop. I hate paying the premium but considering there's no sales tax in Oregon I can live with the $3 premium. Plus no shipping charges since I pick them up locally.

[mflugher]

I generally open negotiations at 60%, I will go up to 80% if haggling occurs. 80% is more than fair, its comparable to what they would get on ebay if they took the time/effort to sell it there. Disclose full melt value, explain the options for selling (ebay 15% fees) Craigslist Free, but you will get lowballed and there are security issues. APMEX/other guys you have to ship first, it will cost money they will reject some or pay lower premiums on the worn coins etc. and then they will probably take no less than 2 weeks to get you a cleared payment.

What you bring to the table:

1. Cash in hand, no waiting, no paperwork etc. this has value
2. willing to make an offer that is comparable or better than what the coin shops/we buy gold places would offer, without making her drive to half a dozen places shopping...
3. Willing to buy without the trouble of taking pictures and listing on EBay, or craigslist you charge nothing if the item doesn't sell.
4. are not a complete stranger coming to her house to looks at her valuables.
5. Integrity, you are happy to explain what the actual melt value is and why you cannot provide that amount, and you can justify why you are offering what you are.
6. You are the one who sorted through her collection and showed her which coins are worth selling for coins and which belong deposited in a bank.


So you are offering Speed, Cash, Security, an easy transaction, integrity and expertise. Don't sell yourself short, those things have value, and since you have them you should be the one that profits from it.


Another consideration. Bank will offer her 4% or so (face) of melt, Cashforgold.com will offer her 20% or so, various we buy gold places will offer her between 30 and 80% of melt, coin shops may go as high as 90% of melt, strangers on craigslist will offer her anywhere from 4% (face) to 100% of melt depending on the individual character. some random coin collector who just likes that piece may offer her 10,000% or more of melt. Who is unethical here? is the bank unethical for offering face? I think most here would not consider that unethical or unfair. Can you really say any of these other folks are unethical if the bank isn't? Determine what you bring to the table, price that commodity, (your expertese, willingness to buy on spot etc), I price it at 60%, thats a 1/3rd profit margin if I sell to refiner @ 90%, I have a building and advertising and employees all here to service the customer. Whats do you feel your percentage value added that is fair? Only you can determine that. Don't sell yourself short.


If you were buying a house, and you had cash, would you feel bad about asking for 20% below asking price if you could say close in 1 week and save them realtor fees and hassles of marketing and cleaning???

Same situation.

To answer your question on Pricing Sterling flatware... Spot price *.925 (sterling purity) *.9, (90% is about the best you will get from any refiner for silver) x weight x 60% (that would be 40% profit, you need to adjust this number to whatever you feel is a reasonable starting point. Keep in mind when you sell this the guy you sell it to will probably want to make some profit too and you will have to cut him in)

We pay a lower percentage on silver scrap than gold scrap,
1. It costs more to refine
2. It costs more to store (bulky)
3. It requires saving a much larger batch over a longer time for refining, this means you are taking risk on price changing. (we only send in silver when we have about a $4k batch or more, thats 130 oz, thats heavy, and it takes up a lot of room in your safe while you build it up... $5k in gold fills a sandwich bag, $5k in silver fills a small backpack)

[pennypanner]

^ Best answer.

[Copper Member]

Well, more today than yesterday.......

[OtusLotus]

Just be careful with Flatware....

You need to weigh it all, and whatever the knives weigh... halve it (divide by two), because the blades are NEVER sterling..
And BTW, flatware is sterling 92.5% not 90%.

If it is your friend, just be honest.... they are using YOU because they think that you are an expert, and that comes with a cost.
Wherever you go, someone is going to make something off of them, why not you!

[scyther]

$5k in gold fills a sandwich bag, $5k in silver fills a small backpack)

Lol. $5k in gold fills that small jeans pocket no one uses. And I'm sure you could fit a lot more than $5k silver in a back pack.

[Engineer]

$5k in gold fills a sandwich bag, $5k in silver fills a small backpack)

Lol. $5k in gold fills that small jeans pocket no one uses. And I'm sure you could fit a lot more than $5k silver in a back pack.

$5K in silver fills a SFRB.

[mflugher]

$5k in gold fills a sandwich bag, $5k in silver fills a small backpack)

Lol. $5k in gold fills that small jeans pocket no one uses. And I'm sure you could fit a lot more than $5k silver in a back pack.

Fills was probably not the right word, but keep in mind we are talking scrap, not .999 bullion, yes 3 American Gold eagles is approx $5k and would fit in that jeans pocket, as is about 140x American Silver eagles, (7 tubes), but we aren't talking bullion we are talking scrap, scrap is only 55% avg gold or 90% avg silver, scrap has a lot of room for air between the pieces, $5k in gold would be approx 21x 10k mens class rings (avg weight 7 dwt), that would fit in a sandwich bag, probably with at least half the room to spare yes... $5k in silver would be approx 300 assorted pieces of silverware (avg 11 dwt ea with knives only being approx 1/3 silver)... Small end of Backpack-ish if you ask me...

I have aprox $6k (well probably $6500 after today )in silverware in my safe right now, it fills about 8 inches diameter by 18 inches long, thats a small (IE kindergarten) backpack if you ask me, its not a normal backpack or a campers backpack.

Regardless the actual dimensions aren't the point, the point is silver takes up a lot more space in my safe... I have a brinks style 1/2 dollar coin box (7x7x4 inches approx?) that I keep all the scrap gold ready to melt in, it is never more than 1/2 full including all the seperate bags/envelopes, it can hold upwards of $50k in scrap gold without getting close to full. on the other hand I have a bag which I keep silverware and scrap sterling jewelry in, its half full, its a bank deposit bag, but its an extra large one, about 6x the normal dimensions, its currently half full with about $6kish worth of silver in it.

[CardsNCoins]

.........I price it at 60%, thats a 1/3rd profit margin if I sell to refiner @ 90%........

Actually that would be 1/2 profit margin, not 1/3, since the 30% profit is half of the 60% you paid.

[scyther]

$5k in gold fills a sandwich bag, $5k in silver fills a small backpack)

Lol. $5k in gold fills that small jeans pocket no one uses. And I'm sure you could fit a lot more than $5k silver in a back pack.

Fills was probably not the right word, but keep in mind we are talking scrap, not .999 bullion, yes 3 American Gold eagles is approx $5k and would fit in that jeans pocket, as is about 140x American Silver eagles, (7 tubes), but we aren't talking bullion we are talking scrap, scrap is only 55% avg gold or 90% avg silver, scrap has a lot of room for air between the pieces, $5k in gold would be approx 21x 10k mens class rings (avg weight 7 dwt), that would fit in a sandwich bag, probably with at least half the room to spare yes... $5k in silver would be approx 300 assorted pieces of silverware (avg 11 dwt ea with knives only being approx 1/3 silver)... Small end of Backpack-ish if you ask me...

I have aprox $6k (well probably $6500 after today )in silverware in my safe right now, it fills about 8 inches diameter by 18 inches long, thats a small (IE kindergarten) backpack if you ask me, its not a normal backpack or a campers backpack.

Regardless the actual dimensions aren't the point, the point is silver takes up a lot more space in my safe... I have a brinks style 1/2 dollar coin box (7x7x4 inches approx?) that I keep all the scrap gold ready to melt in, it is never more than 1/2 full including all the seperate bags/envelopes, it can hold upwards of $50k in scrap gold without getting close to full. on the other hand I have a bag which I keep silverware and scrap sterling jewelry in, its half full, its a bank deposit bag, but its an extra large one, about 6x the normal dimensions, its currently half full with about $6kish worth of silver in it.

Hm good point. I was imagining bullion. Normal size jeans pocket for the gold then.