Gold horror story [Tungsten Filled Gold]

[Saabman]

From ZeroHedge:

"Moments ago, Myfoxny reported that a 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit."


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungsten- ... y-district

[68Camaro]

The best of the industry are moving to x-ray verification and other technology to verify bars. There is a price, but relative to the cost of a 10/100 oz gold bar or 100/1000 oz silver bar, small.

[barrytrot]

I thought X-rays couldn't see through gold? Is that the point? If they can see through then it's fake?

Or is that just with superman? I'm transposing the near equal atomic mass of gold and lead, of course.

[68Camaro]

I thought X-rays couldn't see through gold? Is that the point? If they can see through then it's fake?

Or is that just with superman? I'm transposing the near equal atomic mass of gold and lead, of course.

Lead has a higher absorptance than lighter metals, as does gold, but turn the gain up enough and you can see into either one, as well as detect the density differences between internal materials if alterate fillers are used such as tungsten.

[blackrabbit]

Good video. Best I've seen on how the bars are filled with tungsten. More evidence that the giant fake paper economy translates only to a tiny fraction of real wealth. How much "gold" is out there that people believe they own which is nonexistent? Keep stacking all the real stuff you can afford.

[SilverDragon72]

Dang! That is a scary thought. A lovely 10 oz bar of....tungsten!

I'll stick to reputable dealers or my local LCS, thanks! Or perhaps some of the fine folks here on RC?

I better check my copper stash to see if any of those are fake!

[68Camaro]

I thought X-rays couldn't see through gold? Is that the point? If they can see through then it's fake?

Or is that just with superman? I'm transposing the near equal atomic mass of gold and lead, of course.

Lead has a higher absorptance than lighter metals, as does gold, but turn the gain up enough and you can see into either one, as well as detect the density differences between internal materials if alterate fillers are used such as tungsten.

Minor update... I did ask a radiographer and it's doable - does require special equipment/facility but that level of equipment does exist.

[beauanderos]

Good video. Best I've seen on how the bars are filled with tungsten. More evidence that the giant fake paper economy translates only to a tiny fraction of real wealth. How much "gold" is out there that people believe they own which is nonexistent? Keep stacking all the real stuff you can afford.

Even ANOTHER reason to stack silver instead of gold... not worth the bad guys time to dink with silver at it's current price.

[blackrabbit]

I got way more silver than gold. I do believe its a great investment even in the thirties. I would not be surprised at all to see another run at fifty by spring. Almost all my gold is fractionals and I have an electronic gold tester so I know what I got is real.

[fb101]

I got way more silver than gold. I do believe its a great investment even in the thirties. I would not be surprised at all to see another run at fifty by spring. Almost all my gold is fractionals and I have an electronic gold tester so I know what I got is real.

does that thing tell what on the inside or only that the outer shell is gold?

[blackrabbit]

It detects if it is heavy plated but I think that if it was a thick shell like the one ounce one covering the 10 oz bar in the video it would not work or they would just use one on them instead of drilling. Not practical to fill any fractional piece or probably even one ouncers with tungsten so I am good. I could see someone manufactuing and plating a small coin/bar but not filling one. Anyone ever see a one ounce coin/bar that was tungsten filled?

[brian0918]

It detects if it is heavy plated but I think that if it was a thick shell like the one ounce one covering the 10 oz bar in the video it would not work or they would just use one on them instead of drilling. Not practical to fill any fractional piece or probably even one ouncers with tungsten so I am good. I could see someone manufactuing and plating a small coin/bar but not filling one. Anyone ever see a one ounce coin/bar that was tungsten filled?

Can you link to the tester you use? I also try to stick with fractionals for that reason - as well as the reason that it's easier for me to buy in small bits here and there.

[blackrabbit]

I use the GXL-24PRO gold tester by TRI Electronics. It was recommended by others on this site and has worked great for me. Just google it and check on e-bay for used ones.

[mtldealer]

http://metals.about.com/b/2012/09/23/more-tungsten-filled-gold-bars-found-in-new-york.htm?nl=1

[68Camaro]

See also "Gold Horror Story" posted several days ago

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18210

[ThePowersThatBe]

Merged threads.

[shinnosuke]

This is why I never buy the big gold bars...well, that and I can't afford them.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-09-24/get-your-fake-tungsten-filled-gold-coins-here

[mflugher]

Something I picked up while looking through the comments on this article...

http://www.alibaba.com/products/F0/silver_coins/3.html

In about 10 minutes I found a supplier for in the 1 oz or less range...

ASE
AGE
CDN maples silver and gold
stagecoach 1oz bars (the ones that split into quarters)

dozens of other items...

All fakes, you can get them plated with your choice of New gold new silver, antique gold or silver, copper, new or antique...


pretty scary, smaller coin sizes aren't necessarily any safer...

[ThePowersThatBe]

Merged another tungsten thread.

[Kurr]

Funny how they announced QE Infinity and then the small fakes hit the market, think they are trying to disuade investment into physicals?

[scyther]

Haven't fakes like this always existed?

[Engineer]

Funny how they announced QE Infinity and then the small fakes hit the market, think they are trying to disuade investment into physicals?

+1

[mflugher]

small fakes have existed long before QE3. As well as large fakes. most of those alibaba listings are 2+ years old.

Most of those fakes are easily found via fisch (did I spell right?) tool or a chart, a gram scale accurate to the 100th gram, and a good set of calipers/micrometer. $40 at harbor freight and an internet connection can get you covered.

Heck if you look you can find an antique version of the fisch tool from like 1650... Fakes and counterfeiting are ancient arts. We just have more aggressive media today to let us know about them.

Regardless keep stacking and watch out for the fakes.

[AGgressive Metal]

This is why I like my gold SMALL, OLD, and FOREIGN. European classical gold standard coins are my favorites (British Sovereigns, Swiss 20 Franc, French 20 Franc, Belgian 20 Franc, German 20 Mark, Russia 10 Rubles, Austrian 4 Ducat, etc).

[scyther]

This is why I like my gold SMALL, OLD, and FOREIGN. European classical gold standard coins are my favorites (British Sovereigns, Swiss 20 Franc, French 20 Franc, Belgian 20 Franc, German 20 Mark, Russia 10 Rubles, Austrian 4 Ducat, etc).

I heard the sovereign was the most commonly counterfeited coin.