Insuring PM's in Homeowner's policy?

[barrytrot]

Yep, I agree RICH criminals definitely "get over". But I can 100% guarantee those guys are not breaking into your house robbing you. That would be a waste of time. So stop worrying about criminals breaking in and suing you, please.

Also, the fact that criminals sentenced for life get out in 20 years or FAR less has is a totally separate issue.

One, that should be solved the old fashioned way -> Create a new prison colony again! Cheap, effective long term imprisonment is just a barren stretch away I'm serious about this actually. There are areas of several states with property values in the sub $100 per acre range. Buy up a bunch of that and some fences and you have a nearly free prison instead of the 100k+ per year per person variety that is currently utilized.

[SilverDragon72]

Good points. The rich criminals won't break into your HOUSE...but they break into your investments indirectly. Ruinous financial collapses steal money out of your account. Either that way, or through the erosion of the dollar via inflation.

Interesting thought on the prison idea.

[scyther]

Second: Immediately sue the surviving family for violating your civil rights. That beats them to the punch.

Wow, I hope no one in my family ever breaks in to someone's house and the person sues me for it...

[Engineer]

Do you have an example of the "silly justice system giving more rights to criminals" or is that a gross exaggeration also?

My guess is exaggeration.

Check the stats: Public defenders, the guys "protecting" most criminals, have a record that would not compare favorably to the "Washington Generals".

Criminals aren't so much of a worry to me as their lawyers who try to milk both sides dry before reaching a settlement. The system giving more rights to criminals is just a symptom of the underlying problem of our laws being written by lawyers for lawyers at the expense of the general public.

The way I view an umbrella policy is that it's equal to paying one hour of a lawyer's time per year to have protection against paying tens or hundreds of hours.

Having off the books PMs is yet another layer of protection against lawyers.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Please people do you really know someone that was burglarized and also sued by the burglar or are we just perpetuating VERY RARE and UNUSUAL events.

We just have very quick information exchange so any "interesting" story gets out there.

So we are AWARE of the VERY RARE. That doesn't mean it's not rare.

I just spent about an hour typing the specifics of seven stories I am aware of. After I was done, I clicked "submit" only to find out I had been somehow kicked off the Realcent web-site. All my stories were lost.

I "timed out" I guess. This has happened many times before, you would think I would learn.

It's after midnight. I am not typing them again. You will just have to take my word for it. It happens. People sue every chance they get, even when they are in the wrong.

[Engineer]

You will just have to take my word for it. It happens. People sue every chance they get, even when they are in the wrong.

...and the lawyers always win regardless of what happens to their clients.

As the victim of several frivolous lawsuits, I have some experience. The majority of independent lawyers are ambulance chasing scum in my experience, and even though I "won" my cases it still came at a cost. The last one I hired was the president of the local bar association, and a great salesman, but that was the extent of his talent. When I hired him, my one instruction was to force the other side to produce discovery documents to prove their income, and he didn't produce so much as a single sheet of paper. When he walked in the courtroom he told me that we'd need to stipulate the other party's income, so I asked for a continuance and fired him on the spot.

Forcing the other side to produce those documents saved my *** because I was able to catch them in a number of lies and have "all of their testimony" thrown out...without having my own lawyer in the courtroom. With the president of the local bar association on my side, I would have been hosed.

For a big lawsuit, I'd want the insurance company's lawyers protecting seven figures of the insurance company's balance sheets. The simple fact is that a bought and paid for lawyer who is protecting the interests of his masters will work much harder than the schmuck who is only looking for hourly billing. Half an ounce of silver a month in premiums to keep them on retainer is pretty cheap in my book.

[barrytrot]

Please people do you really know someone that was burglarized and also sued by the burglar or are we just perpetuating VERY RARE and UNUSUAL events.

We just have very quick information exchange so any "interesting" story gets out there.

So we are AWARE of the VERY RARE. That doesn't mean it's not rare.

I just spent about an hour typing the specifics of seven stories I am aware of. After I was done, I clicked "submit" only to find out I had been somehow kicked off the Realcent web-site. All my stories were lost.

I "timed out" I guess. This has happened many times before, you would think I would learn.

It's after midnight. I am not typing them again. You will just have to take my word for it. It happens. People sue every chance they get, even when they are in the wrong.

7 stories in a LIFETIME. Not very many.

I am personally aware of 3 people that are not pro golfers that have hit a hole in one.

I have also personally hit a 3 quarter court basketball shot and I'm not very good.

I have personal knowledge of several things which I classify as miracles.

Michael Jordan at the height of his "powers" was once dunked on by a 15 year old at his own basketball camp.

In other words rare things PLUS TIME and in the case of the earth plus 500,000,000 people make everything happen.

7 in a LIFETIME is EXCEPTIONALLY rare.

[barrytrot]

I could come up with probably 90 other things that are VERY RARE that happen also. The point is that if you are 30 and you've only seen something in ALL YOUR CIRCLES 7 times it is super rare.

In my life time I've seen the invention of the Internet by a guy that probably cannot program, Al Gore. So rare things happen!

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Please people do you really know someone that was burglarized and also sued by the burglar or are we just perpetuating VERY RARE and UNUSUAL events.

We just have very quick information exchange so any "interesting" story gets out there.

So we are AWARE of the VERY RARE. That doesn't mean it's not rare.

I just spent about an hour typing the specifics of seven stories I am aware of. After I was done, I clicked "submit" only to find out I had been somehow kicked off the Realcent web-site. All my stories were lost.

I "timed out" I guess. This has happened many times before, you would think I would learn.

It's after midnight. I am not typing them again. You will just have to take my word for it. It happens. People sue every chance they get, even when they are in the wrong.

7 stories in a LIFETIME. Not very many.

I am personally aware of 3 people that are not pro golfers that have hit a hole in one.

I have also personally hit a 3 quarter court basketball shot and I'm not very good.

I have personal knowledge of several things which I classify as miracles.

Michael Jordan at the height of his "powers" was once dunked on by a 15 year old at his own basketball camp.

In other words rare things PLUS TIME and in the case of the earth plus 500,000,000 people make everything happen.

7 in a LIFETIME is EXCEPTIONALLY rare.

Why did I even bother?? I spend waaaayy too much time at Realcent. Excuse me, I have to go out and earn real money now.

[barrytrot]

It would have been interesting to hear the stories!

I just want to dispel needless fears that people have.

[Thogey]

Please people do you really know someone that was burglarized and also sued by the burglar or are we just perpetuating VERY RARE and UNUSUAL events.

We just have very quick information exchange so any "interesting" story gets out there.

So we are AWARE of the VERY RARE. That doesn't mean it's not rare.

I just spent about an hour typing the specifics of seven stories I am aware of. After I was done, I clicked "submit" only to find out I had been somehow kicked off the Realcent web-site. All my stories were lost.

I "timed out" I guess. This has happened many times before, you would think I would learn.

It's after midnight. I am not typing them again. You will just have to take my word for it. It happens. People sue every chance they get, even when they are in the wrong.

7 stories in a LIFETIME. Not very many.

I am personally aware of 3 people that are not pro golfers that have hit a hole in one.

I have also personally hit a 3 quarter court basketball shot and I'm not very good.

I have personal knowledge of several things which I classify as miracles.

Michael Jordan at the height of his "powers" was once dunked on by a 15 year old at his own basketball camp.

In other words rare things PLUS TIME and in the case of the earth plus 500,000,000 people make everything happen.

7 in a LIFETIME is EXCEPTIONALLY rare.

You are just heckeling sheik as usual and that's not rare.

So what if an event is rare barry? Does that not mean you don't prepare for it. How many times has your house been struck by lightning? Is that going to prevent you from installing lightning rods and surge suppressors.

How many times do you expect to be robbed at home? It's a rare event isn't it?

Trust me, if you kill an intruder it's your a$$. You will have legal problems. You will have to deal with the "mort's" friends and family. You will possibly have to move. Your name will be all over the newspaper. Your kid's will have to put up with a ration of crap.

Why are you picking such a ridiculous argument here? If .0001 percent of your drinking water was contaminated with e-coli that would be rare yet totally unacceptable.

I have a story. Years ago my Dad was friends with the "solo-flex" man and his family. Remember the hairless soloflex man?. Well anyway the solo flex man caught a guy stealing his car stereo (yes it was that long ago, but what difference does that make) Soloflex man grabbed a baseball bat and broke the legs he saw hanging out of the driver's side door.

Soloflex man's lawyer immediately divests soloflex man of money and real estate. Sure enough soloflex man get hit with a huge lawsuit and looses. True story.

I know it's only 1 story and my Dad will not have any more. But how many time does the average person get in an altercation like this? Even if it's once or twice in a lifetime you'd better be prepared for the fallout.

[barrytrot]

I didn't know I heckled sheik a lot. Sorry Sheik.

I'm arguing because people brought this up as a FEAR. Could it happen? Yes. Should it be a FEAR? No

Of course preparing for the "rare" should be done to some degree.

We have X hours and Y dollars to "spend" on "preparation" and if you spend more than just the "blanket policy" on this you are spending too much.


Also rare scale:

- Robbed at home - rare
- Robbed at home and then the robber sues you - a rare sub set of a rare event.


Also are you surprised that KILLING someone causes you problems? If it didn't I would probably be worried!

[barrytrot]

I know it's only 1 story and my Dad will not have any more. But how many time does the average person get in an altercation like this? Even if it's once or twice in a lifetime you'd better be prepared for the fallout.

There is no way the odds are 1 per lifetime. More like 1 per 1,000 life times. I.e. 1,000 people don't have this as an issue even 1 time.

[mflugher]

Back to original question how about insuring a portion of your PMs, how about a hybrid approach? IE if you only keep junk silver they aren't going to enumerate every item in a $1000 bag of dimes and quarters with dates/mintmarks dates. it will say $1000 face in assorted dates quarters/dimes.

Keep 1/4 buried in the yard, 1/4 in a sd box, 1/4 in the attic, 1/4 in a safe in the house?

I don't do this, yet, but have been considering, spread the risk, insure a portion so that if your most riskily held portion is insured.

Thoughts?

[mflugher]

double post mod please remove...

[marine70]

@Barrytrot you asked if it was an exagerating about criminals. I worked for 27 years in corrections I can honestly say that the criminals have more rights. If an inmate just halls off and hits an officer he is restrained, and returned to his cell with an incident report/ticket. If a officer just halls off and hits a inmate he is charged with violating the inmates rights under the color of law. The inmate gets a slap on the wrist the officer gets prcecuted. So who has the most rights? No exageration here.

[barrytrot]

@Barrytrot you asked if it was an exagerating about criminals. I worked for 27 years in corrections I can honestly say that the criminals have more rights. If an inmate just halls off and hits an officer he is restrained, and returned to his cell with an incident report/ticket. If a officer just halls off and hits a inmate he is charged with violating the inmates rights under the color of law. The inmate gets a slap on the wrist the officer gets prcecuted. So who has the most rights? No exageration here.

No exaggeration, but you did choose an arrangement which would be described as "party in power" vs. "party without power".

In cases like this the "party in power" ALWAYS has very strict guidelines. For an exaggerated similarity this is compared to "parent" (party in power) and "child" (party without power). My little girl, bless her heart, has hit/kicked/scratched me every day for the last 2 years (she's 3). If I did that once it would be a major incident. I know that is exaggeration, but the point is that the "party in power" MUST be prevented from taking advantage of the power.


So I stand by my statement that criminals UNLESS RICH are not getting a leg up on anyone. Are they protected against psychopathic power-trippers cold cocking them? Apparently. But they definitely aren't getting preferential treatment against normal citizens.

[Thogey]

I know it's only 1 story and my Dad will not have any more. But how many time does the average person get in an altercation like this? Even if it's once or twice in a lifetime you'd better be prepared for the fallout.

There is no way the odds are 1 per lifetime. More like 1 per 1,000 life times. I.e. 1,000 people don't have this as an issue even 1 time.

I can't belive this even remotely accurate. Unless you live in a bubble

Where does this number come from? If this is true I've been really lucky as I have had the priviledge of damn near beating to death, assaliants, on two separate occasions.
The first one I was 17 (the beautiful paradise of So Cal)and got pick pocketed by a pair of vatos, one distracts you while the other picks and they run. I chased one into his barrio apartment complex. It was a short run, it's hard to run in new boots. I got lucky. Unfortunatly he was not the one with my wallet. I broke his jaw (I know I did cause I felt it break) I beat him unconscious, and beat him some more, I broke his nose. I think I might have broke his collarbone. I stomped on his chest with my brand new GI surplus combat boots. Because if I didn't, he would have turned around and stabbed me. All these little $hits carried serrated steak knives that McDonalds used to give away.

Ive had stuff ripped off out of lockers, my car, my garage. It was the a-holes dumb luck that I WASN'T THERE TO ENJOY IT!.

The next guy I did was in Gallup NM, a great place to be , just passing through . I was assulted by a pan-handler, outside a KFC. I damn near killed him.

Both times I was able to leave and avoid police involvement.

In fact, this issue is important enough that it's on the AZ ballot in Nov. Prop 114. A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT!

"protects crime victims from liability for damages suffered by a person who was injured while that person committed or attempted to commit a felony against the victim."

There are no arguments against the prop. Maybe because 1 in 1000 people feel it pertains to them, I doubt it.
I guarantee this will pass by 5 points. I love my state!

[barrytrot]

Where does this number come from? If this is true I've been really lucky as I have had the priviledge of damn near beating to death, assaliants, on two separate occasions.
The first one I was 17 (the beautiful paradise of So Cal)and got pick pocketed by a pair of vatos, one distracts you while the other picks and they run. I chased one into his barrio apartment complex. It was a short run, it's hard to run in new boots. I got lucky. Unfortunatly he was not the one with my wallet. I broke his jaw (I know I did cause I felt it break) I beat him unconscious, and beat him some more, I broke his nose. I think I might have broke his collarbone. I stomped on his chest with my brand new GI surplus combat boots. Because if I didn't, he would have turned around and stabbed me. All these little $hits carried serrated steak knives that McDonalds used to give away.

First remember what I'm talking about: The odds of someone getting sued and losing for defending their home.

Second: Which is not what you are talking about You are talking about getting into fights and/or being assailed. As you didn't mention any LAWSUITS I will assume there were none. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Third: My brother was also a Golden Gloves fighter and somehow he has been in a hundred outside fights also. I'm not saying every fighter is "more amped up" but I think a lot of them are

[barrytrot]

In fact, this issue is important enough that it's on the AZ ballot in Nov. Prop 114. A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT!

"protects crime victims from liability for damages suffered by a person who was injured while that person committed or attempted to commit a felony against the victim."

There are no arguments against the prop. Maybe because 1 in 1000 people feel it pertains to them, I doubt it.
I guarantee this will pass by 5 points. I love my state!

I would 100% support this law were it in my state as well.

I must say Arizona does a LOT of things I like! I was about 95% of the way to living there based on a business negotiation that included a permanent buyout clause but alas it ended differently (and better in the long run!)

[barrytrot]

Thogey just to be 100% clear:

I am saying 1 out of 1,000 people will be sued successfully as a result of properly defending their home.

Getting a break in or something is probably more like 1 in 2 or something like that (over a life time). And, of course, it varies by area, wildly. And, of course, there is likely a Wikipedia page dedicated to the EXACT stats and if you Google enough you can probably get the exact stats in your zip code.

But I stand by 1 out of 1,000 people in a LIFETIME will be sued successfully as a result of proper defense of their home.

[68Camaro]

Well, I think....


you all have WAY too much time on your hands...

[Thogey]

Where does this number come from? If this is true I've been really lucky as I have had the priviledge of damn near beating to death, assaliants, on two separate occasions.
The first one I was 17 (the beautiful paradise of So Cal)and got pick pocketed by a pair of vatos, one distracts you while the other picks and they run. I chased one into his barrio apartment complex. It was a short run, it's hard to run in new boots. I got lucky. Unfortunatly he was not the one with my wallet. I broke his jaw (I know I did cause I felt it break) I beat him unconscious, and beat him some more, I broke his nose. I think I might have broke his collarbone. I stomped on his chest with my brand new GI surplus combat boots. Because if I didn't, he would have turned around and stabbed me. All these little $hits carried serrated steak knives that McDonalds used to give away.

First remember what I'm talking about: The odds of someone getting sued and losing for defending their home.

Second: Which is not what you are talking about You are talking about getting into fights and/or being assailed. As you didn't mention any LAWSUITS I will assume there were none. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Third: My brother was also a Golden Gloves fighter and somehow he has been in a hundred outside fights also. I'm not saying every fighter is "more amped up" but I think a lot of them are

What the hell does this mean?

Someone who protects his property or defends himself is amped up? I exposed myself to major legal damage simply by excercising my God given right to defend my life and property.
This is something that real men who are willing to defend themselves and not lay down are subject to.

Don't change the subject. You did not write that 1/1000 will be sucessfully sued. I still bet that ratio is lower if you count incidents that result in a lawsuit.

These were not fights. A fight occurs when 2 people participate. I was the only one participating in these incidents, the other guys just F-ed with the wrong bull that's all
I don't get into fights. Fighting is for men with small genetalia.

I'm not going to lay down barry. You start these conversations and refuse to concede a single point. You must have the last word and you are doing it by changing your position, wordsmithing and arguing details.

How can you rebut a corrections officer with 27 years experience by citing and comparing your parenting a 3 year old? The man was telling you the truth and it wouldn't hurt to conceed to a guy who has light years more experience on the matter than you do. There are in two totally different galaxies.

As for my posts, it doesn't matter because I've experienced these things and obviously have lived in a different world than you.



You write like a lawyer

"party in power" vs. "party without power

What the heck is this?

You cannot simply discount the extensive life experiences of the members who have posted here.

How about a little respect? Humble youself and read. Condsider there might be a different point of view and other facts that are valid.

This entire nation is disgusted by the pass criminals get. They hate the fact they need legal representation in order to defend themselves. It is not a moot point. Why can't you acknowledge it?

There is pending legislation all over the nation concerning this problem. Or are we all paranoind schitzos and you are the sane one bringing us all back down like a shot of thorazine?

[Thogey]

Well, I think....


you all have WAY too much time on your hands...

We'll I did about an hour ago but I don't now.

Dammit my beer got warm!

Good luck barry. Take the last word.

[barrytrot]

Where does this number come from? If this is true I've been really lucky as I have had the priviledge of damn near beating to death, assaliants, on two separate occasions.
The first one I was 17 (the beautiful paradise of So Cal)and got pick pocketed by a pair of vatos, one distracts you while the other picks and they run. I chased one into his barrio apartment complex. It was a short run, it's hard to run in new boots. I got lucky. Unfortunatly he was not the one with my wallet. I broke his jaw (I know I did cause I felt it break) I beat him unconscious, and beat him some more, I broke his nose. I think I might have broke his collarbone. I stomped on his chest with my brand new GI surplus combat boots. Because if I didn't, he would have turned around and stabbed me. All these little $hits carried serrated steak knives that McDonalds used to give away.

First remember what I'm talking about: The odds of someone getting sued and losing for defending their home.

Second: Which is not what you are talking about You are talking about getting into fights and/or being assailed. As you didn't mention any LAWSUITS I will assume there were none. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Third: My brother was also a Golden Gloves fighter and somehow he has been in a hundred outside fights also. I'm not saying every fighter is "more amped up" but I think a lot of them are

What the hell does this mean?

Someone who protects his property or defends himself is amped up? I exposed myself to major legal damage simply by excercising my God given right to defend my life and property.
This is something that real men who are willing to defend themselves and not lay down are subject to.

Just an observation based on several examples. If you say you aren't amped up, I believe you.

And, I wasn't saying that was bad, by the way. I wish I wasn't such a pansy actually.

Don't change the subject. You did not write that 1/1000 will be sucessfully sued. I still bet that ratio is lower if you count incidents that result in a lawsuit.

You may not have read the whole thread then. I was pretty clearly against the idea that people are afraid of getting sued, not the crime itself.

I am WELL aware that crime exists. I have locks, alarms, and make liberal use of the bank's safety deposit boxes because of that awareness.

These were not fights. A fight occurs when 2 people participate. I was the only one participating in these incidents, the other guys just F-ed with the wrong bull that's all
I don't get into fights. Fighting is for men with small genitalia.

Ok, I misspoke. "Altercations". Does that work? Somehow you and my brother get in far more "altercations" than I do. Is that true? It appears true based on your story here.

I'm not going to lay down barry. You start these conversations and refuse to concede a single point. You must have the last word and you are doing it by changing your position, wordsmithing and arguing details.

I conceed points all the time. When I believe I'm in error. On the point above I conceeded that I mispoke.

I don't believe that people need to live in fear of nonsense like getting sued over defending yourself. I still haven't seen ample evidence that I should conceed that point.

How can you rebut a corrections officer with 27 years experience by citing and comparing your parenting a 3 year old? The man was telling you the truth and it wouldn't hurt to conceed to a guy who has light years more experience on the matter than you do. There are in two totally different galaxies.

I simply pointed out why they don't let the guards cold cock the inmates

If he has a BETTER example of favoratism to the criminals I am all "virtual-ears". But his example wasn't great. And it did bear the comparison I mentioned. And, as you recall I did say it was exaggeration.

As for my posts, it doesn't matter because I've experienced these things and obviously have lived in a different world than you.

Probably less so than you might imagine. Come to Florida to the Fun Show and I bet you will be surprised where I grew up.

You write like a lawyer

"party in power" vs. "party without power

What the heck is this?

Pretty simple: You have to protect those that don't have power from those that do. That's a pretty key principle.

You cannot simply discount the extensive life experiences of the members who have posted here.

I'm not doing that, but I can discount the impact those experiences have in terms of explaining the world at large if they don't quite fit. I.e. being a corrections officer for 25 years means you were there before the prison reform and that means things were TOUGH. Therefore a lot of what you experienced is going to be EXTREMELY HARD CORE. I realize that and I believe it.

That doesn't mean that it necessarily paints society as mistreating guards in favor of prisoners. NOTE: It might, of course, but not with the example given. If there is an example where a guard was NOT in the wrong and was punished I would enjoy hearing that story.

How about a little respect? Humble youself and read. Condsider there might be a different point of view and other facts that are valid.

I consider other points, and then use that knowledge to make as informed decision as I can. And whatever I believe I believe with my every fiber. So I tend to over commit every time.

And, you know what, I don't apologize for that.

I will ALWAYS apologize when I'm wrong and there are no less than 5 posts where I have apologized on this forum.

This entire nation is disgusted by the pass criminals get. They hate the fact they need legal representation in order to defend themselves. It is not a moot point. Why can't you acknowledge it?

I don't think "the entire nation is disgusted". That's an even broader brush than I was painting with

I will AGREE that most people are of your mindset. Not me though, and I think a few others are probably in the camp seeing that RICH PEOPLE are the ones "getting all the breaks" not criminals.

There is pending legislation all over the nation concerning this problem. Or are we all paranoind schitzos and you are the sane one bringing us all back down like a shot of thorazine?

I will TOTALLY support any of this legislation similar to the one you cited from Arizona. Those sound like good measures.