Going rate for wheats? The future of wheat cents? ADDED

[wagsthadog]

Hi all-

Thanks for all the replies (keep em coming). Only thing I can include is that now we're entering the "wasteland" phase, where nobody is 100% sure of what to do or where the price will go. This is where we all put our money where our mouths are, gentlemen. You can find bulk wheat bags very near or AT copper melt value on ebay or here with very little effort. Now, does one invest $1000 in 5 ($175-$200) wheat bags with the hope that they will suddenly "pop" when this gets more mainstream, jumping to $300 or $400 per bag, or hold back in case they dwindle to regular copper melt value? I smell opportunity.......but I'm broke till after new years!

I recently was offered the chance to buy common wheat cents, but I was a bit at a loss as to what to offer him per wheat!
When the copper price put 59-82 coppers well under 2 1/2 cents each, you could safely offer between 3-4 cents per wheat, and that seemed to be the going rate on ebay. But now that 59-82 copper cents are in striking distance of 3 cents each, where does that put common wheats? Does it become a matter of buying wheats just for copper price, or have you guys been noticing premiums going up for common wheats? I know NDfarmer was trying to sell common wheats for UNDER $200 a bag, and I don't know if he was getting much action, but that's close to a bag of regular coppers, folks!

Are wheats getting shoved back into the pile? Not that I typically buy wheats, but I would hate to have them just pass for melt value.

wags

[TXBullion]

I posted something a while back about the premium of wheats in relation to copper and still kind of wondering. Hope we get some good input here

[Corsair]

I don't do a whole lot of research on the subject, but my theory is pretty simple. Wheat pennies won't increase in price drastically until the melt ban is lifted. When coppers begin to go, and banks tighten the noose around coin sorting, Wheats will no longer be seen in circulation as frequently, let alone any copper penny. Supply down, demand up. Price, hopefully, along with it.

[NDFarmer]

Yes I am trying to sell wheats for $190.00 a bag shipped to you which leaves me $179.00 after shipping. I think that is a pretty fair price. I talked to a couple different dealers in my area and they said they usually get between $220.00 and $250.00 a bag for the common dates and closer to $300.00 for a bag with good mixed dates. I am surprised I haven't had more interest in the wheats I have for sale.

[aristobolus]

An interesting post. If the price of copper continues to go up, might we see wheats/copper memorials behave more like mercury/silver roosevelt dimes? The latter sell for roughly the same as bullion (numismatic value notwithstanding), but mercurys do command a slight premium. Clearly some of the cu memorials have drastically lower mintage numbers than their wheatie counterparts.

On the other hand, cu memorials are still readily available in circulation. So will we see the rapid demise of the cu penny soon as the populace finds out about their value? Or is the wheat cent undervalued? The market will decide.

[GTOJohn]

i am also interesting in reading the responses.
i bought a couple of bags of wheats from ndfarmer -
and save the ones i come across in sorting.
but - i have no gut feeling as to whether wheats will be more valuable that memorial coppers.

[pennypicker]

At my local coin shop the owner sells his 90% junk silver dimes and halves and always lets me cherry pick through them. Over the years he has (never) asked a premium for either the mercs or walkers. He deals in large volumes and simply doesn't care. All that matters to him and most customers is the silver content. I believe that this mindset will eventually hold true for common wheats and cu memorials once the price of copper hits a price high enough that only the copper in the pennies will matter to buyers. Of course at that time in the future there will always be those who will pay a nominal premium for common wheats just as there are those now who will pay a nominal premium for common merc & walkers.

[pennyaholic]

I have to agree with pennypicker. I dumped thousands of wheats last year at close to 4 cents each and do not regret it at all, since I bought silver with the money. Regarding some of those Memorials I think people will be surprised how hard it will be to find some of the early zinc coins in high grades in the future.

[Economist]

Just to clarify the first posting, copper memorials are currently fetching an average around 1.74 cents on feeBay (before ebay fees, it works out to about 1.52 cents average after fees).

[pennypicker]

It's always good to have an economist around and thanks for those figures...

[misteroman]

LOl yeah I see them getting closer in price as the price of CU going up.

[aristobolus]

I have went back and forth on this one. What about Indians? I know that wheat pennies were minted in larger quantity, but they are all but gone from circulation. Perhaps holding them for a few years would not be a bad move, at least until people are pulling the cu memorials en masse.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Yes I am trying to sell wheats for $190.00 a bag shipped to you which leaves me $179.00 after shipping. I think that is a pretty fair price. I talked to a couple different dealers in my area and they said they usually get between $220.00 and $250.00 a bag for the common dates and closer to $300.00 for a bag with good mixed dates. I am surprised I haven't had more interest in the wheats I have for sale.

That is a good price! The going rate at coin shops in my town is 4.5 cents per common wheatie. A $50.00 face bag sells for $225.00. The really good stuff goes much higher.

[uthminsta]

I think that the price you get will depend at least some on your audience. If you ask primarily copper sorters, you're going to get a bit of a consensus that they will eventually be interchangeable as copper bullion. But if you ask coin collectors, you will probably get some consensus that they will always be more collectible than copper memorial cents. But over time, I believe that wheats will CONTINUE to float ABOVE the price of copper. And I believe that for some time to come, the market for copper memorials will stay BELOW the price of copper. Only when copper memorials are UNAVAILABLE in circulation (how long will THAT take?), will they actually trade at bullion price. And that's good for us who are trying to get ahold of more of them right now.

...Of course, ALL of that depends on maintaining some semblance of "society" and not a total EOTWAWKI or "Crap Hits The Fan" scenario. If that comes, copper is copper.

[Corsair]

I think that the price you get will depend at least some on your audience. If you ask primarily copper sorters, you're going to get a bit of a consensus that they will eventually be interchangeable as copper bullion. But if you ask coin collectors, you will probably get some consensus that they will always be more collectible than copper memorial cents. But over time, I believe that wheats will CONTINUE to float ABOVE the price of copper. And I believe that for some time to come, the market for copper memorials will stay BELOW the price of copper. Only when copper memorials are UNAVAILABLE in circulation (how long will THAT take?), will they actually trade at bullion price. And that's good for us who are trying to get ahold of more of them right now.

...Of course, ALL of that depends on maintaining some semblance of "society" and not a total EOTWAWKI or "Crap Hits The Fan" scenario. If that comes, copper is copper.

I don't think you could find "a bit of a consensus," a consensus, or more than a group of three or four people on this forum who believe that Wheats will eventually be down-graded to the level of "copper bullion." Even if a SHTF scenario happens (which I believe is utter crap), Wheats will still be found to have some value over and above that of copper. We'll never know that for sure since it won't ever happen, but that's just my two cents.

[uthminsta]

Yeah, I guess that could use a little rephrasing. It just seems to me that they would TEND more toward that thinking, since that's their primary slant. They're copper searchers. Copper is copper. How much time do Ryedale owners spend searching through their coppers for wheats?

So do you think this is about right, for market value?
- common wheats hovering around copper value, plus one cent, each
- memorials hovering around copper rounded down to the nearest cent each (if that)

[Corsair]

A mixed bag of Wheats comfortably sells here for 4x face. I don't think we'll ever see that number go down. Once coppers start getting harder and harder to find, and the average buy price creeps up from 1.3x to 1.35x to 1.45x to where it is now, about 1.5x, we'll see the Wheats start to steadily climb as well. Then, when something major happens, be it a composition change, a melt ban lift, an explosion in copper spot like we've seen in gold and silver, then we'll start to see both of those numbers climb.

[thatgeorge]

One thing to think about.

Since 1913 the average inflation rate has been 3% (according to the cpi so take that figure with a fairly large block of salt).

Also, 1958 was the last year that you could basically go to a bank and pick up 100% wheat cents.

If in 1958 you went in and bought a $25 box of wheat cents, stored them in your basement until today, and sold them now for 4.5 cents on the penny you would get $113 for the box.

Interestingly enough, ($25)e^(.03*52)=$119 which means that that wheat penny that was stored in 1958 has retained 95% of its purchasing power.

Now the question is, could you really get $113 per box? Would you pay more since they would most likely be lightly circulated and have Indian cents mixed in? If you could only get $100 for dirty wheats then they have only maintained 85% of their value. Is that good considering that they have been used heavily?

It is interesting to note that this doesn't hold true for copper memorials. If we say that people would pay 1.6 times face then $25*1.6=$40 versus ($25)e^(.03*28)=$58. So a copper penny stored away in 1982 is only retained 77% of its value. However if we could sell the box for close to no. 2 copper spot (price of 94-96% copper) we would get $25*2.45=$61 which would mean that a copper penny stored away in 1982 would have retained 105% of its value.

Is this just coincidence that design-change dates hold their value roughly equivalent to the cpi? Does this work for the indian cent (I don't know what the going rate is for circulated indians)? Will this work for the zinc cents and the 2009 cents? Does this only work at design change dates, or would it work at any date?

Anyhow, long story short, a fair price according to the cpi would be roughly e^(.03*age) per wheat (or 4.75 cents for a 1958 wheat and 13.5 cents for a 1913 wheat).

~George

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

ND Farmer, sell them on ebay. They are much higher there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-TEN-WHEAT-PENNI ... 5d2ca074a6

[NDFarmer]

ND Farmer, sell them on ebay. They are much higher there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-TEN-WHEAT-PENNI ... 5d2ca074a6

He is probably averaging at least .10 cents a piece after shipping. You know selling them 10 at a time they are common dates. If I could get .10 cents apiece for every common date wheat I have in my basement I could retire. I have a bag up for auction now and only have one bid on it. But you do make a good point I should try some smaller lots, maybe some half bags or quarter bags.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

ND Farmer, sell them on ebay. They are much higher there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-TEN-WHEAT-PENNI ... 5d2ca074a6

He is probably averaging at least .10 cents a piece after shipping. You know selling them 10 at a time they are common dates. If I could get .10 cents apiece for every common date wheat I have in my basement I could retire. I have a bag up for auction now and only have one bid on it. But you do make a good point I should try some smaller lots, maybe some half bags or quarter bags.

Just curious.... how many wheaties do you have?

[Finder]

Anyone found key dates after sorting the stinks out?

1909 s
1909s vdb
1914 d
1931 s

semi keys

1910 s
1911 s
1912 s
1913 s
1914 s
1915 s
1924 d
1926 s

Im keeping an eye out for those.
(along with every other penny junkie im sure)

[uthminsta]

Anyone found key dates after sorting the stinks out?

Yes, most of those have been found this year! Check this thread out:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263

[PreservingThePast]

I had an opportunity yesterday to sell 500 of my wheats that I have found over the past two and a half years and was able to get 3 cents each for them. The same dealer sells them for four cents each. Just about a year or year and a half ago he was paying four cents a piece but had to lower his price as no one was willing to pay him higher than four cents each for them.

Hated to sell them, but needed the money.

Enjoy your coin searches, everyone.

[pennyaholic]

Well I got a call from a dealer who knows I collect pennies. He told me he just purchased a big lot 10 bags (5000 each) of common 40-50 wheats from a 83 year old guy. This guy has been saving them for over 30 years and now sells them for 2.5 each. He should have been saving silver anyway the dealer sold them to me for 3 cents each. I bought them because although they are all common they were all sorted in tubes, yes 1000 tubes. Now I just want to unload them for the cost I paid so I can get some free tubes. The dealer told me that the guy shopped around and could not find any other dealer wanting to buy them but him. So I think if you find wheats searching I would sell them and buy more pennies to search rather then save them for the copper as they are not going to be worth that much in the future.