Does anyone know anything about watches?

[aaa30040]

A question for everyone as we continue down the path of socialism - does anyone know anything about watches? I have read that a good way to take money out of a country, if they ever start imposing limits, is to wear it on your wrist. A stack of gold coins might get stopped at the border, but an expensive watch you are wearing would probably pass.

Which watches are ever a good investment?
Which ones to look at?
Where to buy?
What is a fair price?
Which watches are popular in other countries - assuming you would sell once you arrive?

[inflationhawk]

Watches can be VERY expensive. If you want a short list of the highest valued ones:
A Lange & Sohne
Audemars Piguet
Breguet
Breitling
Glashutte Original
Hublot
IWC
Jaeger LeCoultre
Panerai
Patel Philippe
Richard Mille
Rolex
Vacheron Constantin

There are many many more. Rolex is definitely the most common on that list, but also the most commonly faked. Some of these makers make watches that cost more than 100k. My personal choice if I were to try and store some high value in the form of a watch would be A Lange & Sohne or Patel Philippe. Don't expect to make any money buying and selling watches though. They'll hold a decent amount of their value and if there is high inflation, you may end up getting more back than you paid.

[Rodebaugh]

BSing over a couple beers... one of my good friends in PA pointed at his Rolex and said, "international currency"

I couldn't agree more.

[Thogey]

BSing over a couple beers... one of my good friends in PA pointed at his Rolex and said, "international currency"

I couldn't agree more.

Why is this?

Why is a watch still such a solid commodity?

[Treetop]

what would be a good watch if you wanted the lowest overhead on a watch made of gold?

[inflationhawk]

There's just not that much gold in a watch to make the gold value that disproportionate to the watch value overall. I'd first make sure you buy a quality watch and then, if you want, pick a model that is 18k gold to add some additional store of value. Generally, though when buying new, i believe most watch makers add substantially more than just the gold value when you buy an 18k model.

Watch collecting is an international hobby and there is a pretty active market so they are fairly liquid, but certainly there will be some depreciation and transaction cost involved so it's not like bullion. Because Rolex is so well known and has such a large market those can be some of the best watches for the purposes we're discussing here, just BE CAREFUL when you buy one. Counterfeiters have gotten EXTREMELY good at making fake Rolexes look like the real thing.

[inflationhawk]

A couple of more comments on Rolexes. Because they have gotten more and more well known and are highly marketable, Rolex has been able to jack up the prices substantially in the primary market. The secondary market has NOT followed in lock step with that. While Rolex might be the most liquid, I think you'll see more loss of value in transaction costs than other brands.

If you want a brand that is not quite as high cost and has also seen a huge bump in popularity in the last decade or so, look at Omega. I suspect prices in the primary market for Omegas will be going even higher in the coming years and that will make the value of all Omegas go up I believe. Omega makes some good watches and has a very long history as a quality watchmaker. They have been spending a lot on marketing of the brand in recent years to try and raise their profile. I think that will be good for owners of Omega watches if/when they go to resell their watches later.

[Matt B]

I've been repairing (mostly) vintage watches for nearly 15 years now, although I hesitate to call myself a "watch maker." I occasionally service high-end watches (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Vacheron, etc) and won't claim to be an expert on that segment of the market. However, I would not consider them to have investment potential based solely on the precious metal content of their cases. The real worth of such pieces is in the movements which, in many instances might cost far more than the case (even one of 18K gold) to replace.

If I was going to buy a watch as an investment based on a high ratio of case value to movement value, I would concentrate on vintage watches - the older the better. In the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, for example, a heavy 14K or 18K gold dress hunting case was often paired with a relatively low cost movement. This pattern continued for decades - until the post-quartz recovery of the luxury watch market. I can't tell you how many gold watches I've seen with crap movements from the 1960s through early 1980s. The problem now of course, is that everyone is scrap happy, so the older stuff is (sadly) disappearing very quickly.

That's my take on it, FWIW, which ain't much!

Matt B.

[inflationhawk]

Buying quality vintage watches is good advice since there is less lost from the initial manufacturer's retail price. I bought an old Omega Constellation piepan from the 1950s last year. Its a 505 caliber movement. They're classic pieces, but pretty small on the wrist compared to most modern watches. What are your thoughts on old pocket watches? There just doesn't seem to be a great market for them to me, but I like them. Not that useful though. I just like looking at them and the history of them.

[OtusLotus]

The other option is buying a watch made by a jeweler that has international offices. I have an H Stern watch, which has gone up substantially in value. H Stern has locations all over Europe, South America, and the Middle East.

These watches are less likely to be faked, and has international recognition.

[Lemon Thrower]

i work with a wide variety of folks, including investment bankers. the i-bankers all have $10-20,000 watches as some sort of stupid status symbol. however, increasingly younger folks i hire just have a smart phone and don't wear a watch.

i would be very hesitant to put a lot of money in a watch.

I wear a Tag I bought for $750 12 years ago; i'll give it to my son someday and then wear a timex. I work with a guy who wears a $250 swiss army watch and its looks pretty similar to mine exceept for the brand name. Also work with some dudes who sport rolexs. I can afford one but why?

again, i would be very hesitant to put a lot of money in a watch.

[inflationhawk]

Buying and selling watches is not a way to make money that's for sure, but if you buy quality it's not a bad store of value and there is a pretty liquid market internationally. The original post was talking about ways to take money out of the country inconspicuously. A watch isn't a bad way to go in that regard.

[Catfish4u]

If you want to move gold over the border wear necklaces and bracelets. If you still want the watch thing you can wear a giant gold one around your neck like Flava Flav................

[fasTT]

They are much less liquid forms of value, but do have value.

Items like a Rolex President (the 18k version) are a $10,000 bill virtually anywhere in the world. However, they cost $50,000 new.

I bought two gold watches today, a 14k Geneve and an 18k Omega. The Omega would be a resaleable item, however, the movement is shot and it was monogrammed on the back. Spending the money to restore it and the time to resell it is not worth it. Both hit the melt bucket.

But on the other side of the coin, these watches were brought into me from a gentleman who owned pawn shops in Toronto years ago. He has been bringing me similar watches every couple months and cashing them in. They were a decent store of value for him.

[Lemon Thrower]

they are a decent store of value if you can buy them at pawnshop buy prices, not $50,000 new.

[frugi]

Personally, I like Omega watches. I have several that are 14k, and one that is 18k. These are solid gold with the exception of the watch works. The bands are usually leather, but you can get a Omega Constellation that has a solid gold bracelet as well. I have one Constellation, and several Seamasters. Also I have a couple of Omega's that are just gold filled. But Omega watches are excellent timekeepers, and hold their value. Most of mine I have picked up on the secondary market for less then the gold value of the watch. (A great investment). The one I wear everyday is gold filled, but keeps such accurate time it is amazing. It is an automatic, and I havent wound it in months. The best Omega to look for would be the models from the 1950's before they added the date window, or even into the 1960's after the date window was added, but stear clear of the lunky 1970's models for resale, nobody wants them. Generally the 1970's though had the most gold in them. I have a nice Omega with a very lunky case in 14k, and solid bracelet bracelet as well. Omega watches hold the resale value. I have sold a few gold filled ones over the years and got about $300-$500 for those.....the 14k & 18k ones go for double that or more. Omega still makes watches today, and they are quite pricey, and they are also faked. If you wanted a good investment with as little cost as possible I would recommend an Omega. If not an Omega, I think the lowest price name brand solid gold watch would be a used Rolex of no specific year, pick one of the models that is the least collectible, and make sure it is all gold, and you might get it for near scrap.