Canadian Government Scraps Pennies

[JadeDragon]

Still no shortages or rounding of pennies in my travels.

[Engineer]

Still no shortages or rounding of pennies in my travels.

Welcome to the forum, stranger. Please head over to the introductions section and tell us a little about yourself.

[brexzz1]

Why would you expect shortages or rounding right now?????

[scyther]

Why would you expect shortages or rounding right now?????

Because they haven't made pennies in 8 1/2 months and some places might start early. They originally planned to stop circulation in the fall, and they stopped making them before they changed their mind, so it's possible they could have run out early.

[brexzz1]

Right now there are more pennies at banks than before. People are turning them in. The fact that they havent made pennies since may has ZERO bearing on the availability of pennies right now.

[scyther]

Any rounding or shortages yet? Only 1 week left...

[uthminsta]

Wait, what is the deadline, and what are the expected changes?

[henrysmedford]

Wait, what is the deadline, and what are the expected changes?

Many businesses not ready for phase out of Canada’s penny


BY JASON FEKETE, POSTMEDIA NEWSJANUARY 25, 2013


OTTAWA — The penny is about to drop — with many businesses unprepared and the federal government having only limited success informing Canadians of the looming change to, well, change.

The one-cent coin’s final days of widespread use are drawing near. The Royal Canadian Mint will stop distributing pennies to financial institutions on Feb. 4 — the same day businesses are encouraged to begin rounding cash transactions to the nearest five-cent increment in a “fair and transparent manner.”

For example, a transaction totalling $1.02 would round down to $1, but a purchase of $1.03 would round up to $1.05, while $1.07 would round down to $1.05 and a purchase of $1.08 would round up to $1.10.

Transactions paid with cheques, credit cards and debit cards will continue to be settled to the cent. The GST and HST will be calculated on the pre-tax price, not the rounded price.

Canadians who hoard their pennies will still, however, be able to use pennies indefinitely to pay for purchases.

While the transition date is just days away, many small businesses are clearly not ready for the penny’s phase-out. Managers and business owners at a number of merchants in the national capital offered blank stares when asked about it. Other shop owners simply shrugged their shoulders.

“We’re not prepared in the least,” said Judy Mance, manager of Kameleon PopShop in Ottawa, a store specializing in jewelry and women’s fashion.

Mance said she has heard bits and pieces about the penny being phased out, but was unfamiliar with the Feb. 4 transition date or the specifics of when to round up or down.

She noted the family business — located a block from Parliament Hill — hasn’t received any notification from the federal government about the transition.

Nevertheless, she said the business is just as happy to round up or down for customers to avoid having to hand out pennies, something she said the store has regularly done for some time.

“Our small change has been devalued because it doesn’t buy much,” she added. “I find people don’t even count their change anyway.”

The Conservative government announced in last March’s federal budget it was ending production of the penny because it actually cost 1.6 cents to mint each of the one-cent coins, due to rising metal, labour and other manufacturing costs.

Ottawa says that stamping out the penny for good also will save taxpayers around $11 million a year.

To help retailers, charities and consumers, the federal government has created a web portal on the Finance Canada website, including downloadable signage that can be displayed in-store.

The Mint has also launched a social media campaign on Facebook and Twitter to alert Canadians about the transition date. As well, approximately 225,000 printed flyers were placed in Canada Post outlets across the country explaining the changes.

A series of print, radio, television and online ads have begun to appear across Canada, and will circulate until the end of March.

Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB) president Dan Kelly said a number of his members aren’t prepared for the transition away from the penny.

“Business awareness is low,” Kelly acknowledged, explaining many business owners likely won’t realize the change until they go to the bank and can no longer get rolls of pennies. “There certainly will be a few transitional hiccups.”

The primary concern for business owners, he said, is consumers unaware of the rounding off changes may think store employees are trying to cheat them out of a few pennies.

At Canada’s Four Corners, a crafts and souvenir shop in downtown Ottawa, manager Reza Ghaffari said the penny phase-out “is not a big deal.” He would like to see the government also eliminate the nickel and round cash transactions to the nearest zero.

“I think it should average itself out during the day,” Ghaffari said.

Ian Kimmerly, owner of a stamp shop bearing his name, said Friday his business hasn’t done anything to prepare for the transition, nor is he in a hurry to do so. He said his business will continue to provide pennies, as long as they have them on hand, to customers who want them.

“We have a lot of older customers who remember when a penny was worth something. For those customers, we’ll be happy to give (pennies) to them,” he said.

Many consumers may not even notice the change. A majority of retail and hospitality purchases are paid by credit card (35 per cent) and debit card (27 per cent), according to data from the CFIB, which represents 109,000 small and medium-sized businesses in Canada.

Only 19 per cent of retail and hospitality transactions are paid by cash, with 15 per cent by cheque, says the CFIB.

Karen Proud, a vice-president at the Retail Council of Canada which represents about 45,000 stores, figures approximately half of the businesses are ready for the change.

It will also take time for consumers to adjust, she said, as shoppers receive less or more change than they were expecting.

“In the short term, there is going to be a bit of confusion,” she said.

Along with the rising costs to stamp the penny coin, the government said ending the penny’s production was necessary because Canadians are indifferent to the coin and that it has retained only one-twentieth of its original purchasing power.

Billions of Canadian pennies remain either in circulation, stashed in piggy banks or lining drawers of homes across the country. It will take years to completely remove the coin from circulation.

“To ensure the transition is as smooth as possible and as smooth as in other countries, we’re undertaking a national public awareness campaign to help inform small businesses, retailers, charities, and consumers about how rounding will work,” Shelly Glover, parliamentary secretary to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, said Friday in a statement.

jfekete@postmedia.com

Twitter.com/jasonfekete

© Copyright (c) Postmedia News

[scyther]

Interesting. Hopefully they don't delay it again. They could still theoretically back out now without even skipping a year, although the mintage for 2012 is obviously affected. Well, I'm pretty sure they won't do that...

[uthminsta]

The Royal Canadian Mint will stop distributing pennies to financial institutions on Feb. 4 — the same day businesses are encouraged to begin rounding cash transactions to the nearest five-cent increment in a “fair and transparent manner.”

Stop distributing them on Feb. 4. Okay.
Round transactions up or down. Okay.
But as for ACTIVELY REMOVING THEM? Without going back and reading several pages again, what are the Canadian government's plans there?

[henrysmedford]

The Royal Canadian Mint will stop distributing pennies to financial institutions on Feb. 4 — the same day businesses are encouraged to begin rounding cash transactions to the nearest five-cent increment in a “fair and transparent manner.”

Stop distributing them on Feb. 4. Okay.
Round transactions up or down. Okay.
But as for ACTIVELY REMOVING THEM? Without going back and reading several pages again, what are the Canadian government's plans there?

From my reading--
After Feb-4 banks will be shipping cent back and no longer selling them to businesses and the cent will still be legal to use for ever if you have them to use.

Also it is Swedish rounding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_rounding they will use just in case if the 5 cent coins goes down the road.

[scyther]

They're going to be melted down for scrap metal. I believe I heard they were shipping them to the US for some reason.

[fansubs_ca]

I was at a RBC branch Wednesday, got $50 in pennies. (The maximum I can comfortably
carry at once. ^_-) The girl there said Friday is the last day they are allowed to hand
them out in any transaction, even ones they get from people after that they will
automatically send back and aren't allowed to dispense them to the public. I'm not
sure if the government handed that down to the banks as a requirement or it's just
a matter of the bank's policy because they would like to be done with them as soon
as possible.

I'll have to see if the credit unions are more flexible.

Too bad they are being so agressive about withdrawing them, it would have been
interesting to see how long they lasted if they just kept recirculating with no new
minting. Of course maybe it would look bad as ever growing percentages of U.S.
pennies "leaked" into Canadian circulation. ^_^

As of Feb. 1 Winnipeg Transit will no longer accept pennies in payment, though
this hard cut off is more due to them implimenting their new fare boxes:

http://m.winnipegtransit.com/fares

I think transit is one of the big places pennies have been recovered from the
general public over the past year to facilitate re-use in the absence of new
pennies. I've gotten quite a few boxes that were packed by Winnipeg Transit.

[fansubs_ca]

They're going to be melted down for scrap metal. I believe I heard they were shipping them to the US for some reason.

Maybe so the U.S. can salvage out their own pennies before they hit the melter. ^_-

About 4% of the pennies currently circulating in Winnipeg are U.S. in origin, it's been
about that percentage since the late 80s. So in the redemption they'll get a lot of
U.S. pennies in the mix. (About 6% of the 4% or or 0.24% of the total are wheat
pennies.)

I think someone here posted that in Windsor it about 10%.

Hmmm? I wonder about the legal ramifications if this hits a U.S. smelter without
them pulling the U.S. ones first. ^_-

Maybe someone should tip off the U.S. government that the Canadain mint is
"sneaking a bunch of U.S. cents into their melts".

[mtalbot_ca]

I just got back from my CU and they told me that as of Monday the 4th Feb, pennies will no longer be given out. I am getting their last 300$ worth tomorrow.

Cheers

[JadeDragon]

I cleared out over a grand of pennies from banks and credit unions today. I have to count the boxes to see how many Total.

TD is the most aggressive with signs and brochures in every branch about eliminating the penny.
RBC has video screens saying no pennies after Feb 4
CIBC and BMO and Scotia all are stopping distribution as of the 4th

The credit unions in the Fraser Valley I talked to have no direction to stop distributing pennies and they wanted to keep some for businesses.

The best news is - the banks have $25 bags to fill and no need to roll them. One bank said just fill to the line on the bag and deposit. They do not plan to count the coins. I however will use my high speed coin counter - no estimating for me.

I also was handed a roll of dimes wrapped in coloured paper and counted as pennies. I spotted it and made it right with the teller who was very pleased. Than ok a whim i asked to buy sone dimes including that roll. Popped it open right at the wicket to find SIX silver dimes! Never found more than 2 in a roll. I then bought a whole bunch of dimes and quarters in case that customer had turned in more rolls (looks like none are from the same person though).
So some time honesty is immediately rewarded by the God who owns all the coins

With businesses not able to get coins and banks all sending them in for melting i expects pennies will be very scarce very quick. I'll be able to make exact change for years though so no rounding down on my change.

[SilverDragon72]

I cleared out over a grand of pennies from banks and credit unions today. I have to count the boxes to see how many Total.

TD is the most aggressive with signs and brochures in every branch about eliminating the penny.
RBC has video screens saying no pennies after Feb 4
CIBC and BMO and Scotia all are stopping distribution as of the 4th

The credit unions in the Fraser Valley I talked to have no direction to stop distributing pennies and they wanted to keep some for businesses.

The best news is - the banks have $25 bags to fill and no need to roll them. One bank said just fill to the line on the bag and deposit. They do not plan to count the coins. I however will use my high speed coin counter - no estimating for me.

I also was handed a roll of dimes wrapped in coloured paper and counted as pennies. I spotted it and made it right with the teller who was very pleased. Than ok a whim i asked to buy sone dimes including that roll. Popped it open right at the wicket to find SIX silver dimes! Never found more than 2 in a roll. I then bought a whole bunch of dimes and quarters in case that customer had turned in more rolls (looks like none are from the same person though).
So some time honesty is immediately rewarded by the God who owns all the coins



With businesses not able to get coins and banks all sending them in for melting i expects pennies will be very scarce very quick. I'll be able to make exact change for years though so no rounding down on my change.

Wow! You cleared out over a grand's worth of pennies? That is ALOT to carry around at one time. I can only imagine the fun you had loading them up!

[scyther]

I cleared out over a grand of pennies from banks and credit unions today.

Good for you. Maybe they'll be available in the future, maybe they won't. Good thing to stock up now. Only 3 more days...

[Rodebaugh]

Talk about the fat lady signing.

Time to get proactive guys. Craigslist, facebook, whatever you can use to get more pennies before they're gone.

Someday this will spill over to the US.....I am already not looking forward to it.

[JadeDragon]

I finally got all the coin unloaded. Wow that was a workout. Ended up with partial boxes of dimes and quarters, and nearly two boxes of nickels, but that was more by accident because i only asked for these other coins to round up to $100 or whatever. Still, with 7 silver dimes found, my biggest silver haul ever in Canada.

I stacked everything and boxed up all the loose rolls and bundles... 50 penny boxes total. Looks like 6 of those are mint fresh plus I traded a mint fresh 2011 box early in the day. I know some of you laugh at 50 boxes in a day, but for me that is the biggest penny buy ever. Might as well go out with a bang! Watching roll ends indicates 30% or so yield so there is a good chunk of copper in that pile to mine.

I believe I can get a few more tomorrow and that there may still be pennies in the credit unions for a while, but come Monday the banks are out of the penny selling business. Lucky we can still look for nickel.

[SilverDragon72]

I take it you will sort all of these for Canadian coppers, and the keep the rest separate? Or should a person keep ALL Canadian pennies that we come across. My Canadian pile isn't very large, and I always look for them at any LCS that I visit. I only keep the copper ones for the time being.

[JadeDragon]

I take it you will sort all of these for Canadian coppers, and the keep the rest separate? Or should a person keep ALL Canadian pennies that we come across. My Canadian pile isn't very large, and I always look for them at any LCS that I visit. I only keep the copper ones for the time being.

I'm in Canada of course. I'll dump the zinc and steel in these nifty $25 bulk penny bags rolled out for the withdrawal program. Given the price of zinc and the presence of all those zincolns I can't see the point of keeping zinc Canadians.

I'll also keep all the US copper and if I'm really bored, pull US zinc and return it to the US. However there is currently no financial advantage to saving the US coins.

[uthminsta]

I can't see the point of keeping zinc Canadians.

Possible future numismatic value? I would like to hear some opinions on this.

[JadeDragon]

I have at least 6 Mint sealed boxes of the last pennies ever made if anyone is interested in some historic Canadian pennies.

[uthminsta]

I would like a roll, sometime. Maybe if I get something else from you (auction, etc), you can throw it in together?