Sounds to me like war has been declared. new info post #34

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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:36 am

rainsonme wrote:There was a movie from the 1950's called The Mouse That Roared. Funny movie about a tiny bankrupt country in Europe, that figured their only hope was to declare war on the US, loose quickly, and let the US rebuild their country. I think the nut-job in NK would like something along those lines ---- food and money in exchange for an agreement to not do what he cant do anyway.

That was a hilarious movie!!! They ran around in medieval amour and long bows. Funny!! :lol:

I think that really sums up Kim Joung Un. At the worst, he is a "faint" for his buddies in the middle east to keep our troops preoccupied. The threat of a two front war makes us more vulnerable.

If Ike where the Prez~~ I don't think we would be anywhere near the trouble we are having. Of course, Ike actually believed in concepts like following the letter of the Constitution, ya know.
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby johnbrickner » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:42 am

So much to say on this subject. I could write paragraphs. However, what needs to be said is the depth, breadth, quality, and concerned caring thought that comes from this community leaves me with only these words. There is powerful affect here.
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby neilgin1 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:08 am

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:If Ike where the Prez~~ I don't think we would be anywhere near the trouble we are having. Of course, Ike actually believed in concepts like following the letter of the Constitution, ya know.



amen....thats why i miss him to this very day...heck, look at my "avatar"...Happy Easter. May you and your kin be blessed, neil
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby neilgin1 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:10 am

johnbrickner wrote:So much to say on this subject. I could write paragraphs. However, what needs to be said is the depth, breadth, quality, and concerned caring thought that comes from this community leaves me with only these words. There is powerful affect here.


i feel EXACTLY the same way John. as i said to the Sheikh, may God bless you and your kin as well, This Day, neil
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby dannan14 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 pm

cesariojpn wrote:I rather have a guy that doesn't want the job rather than one that wants the job of president.


This is agree with. The story of Cincinnatus (whether real or myth) is a great model for the government.
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby SilverDragon72 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:36 pm

natsb88 wrote:North Korea is as much of a threat to the mainland US as Iraq was. That is to say, little to none. If homeland security was really our government's main concern, we'd have ten times as much border and port security here at home, we wouldn't be picking fights 7000 miles away in the middle east, and we wouldn't be eager to jump into east Asia 6000 miles away either.

North and South Korea, Iran and Israel...some of these conflicts go back to before the US was even a country. Every new US president comes along and says "I'm going to fix this" :roll: . It's naive to think any US military intervention is going to resolve the long-standing underlying unrest upon which these conflicts are based, and it's foolish to try. We have spent and printed our currency into its most fragile status in history in no small part due to our world policing and nation building.

If the US is going to take any military action in these regions, it should be an offer to assist in getting US citizens out and back to the US. Then close up shop and come home. The only US targets they can hit are the ones we put within their range, i.e. military bases, ships, embassies... Our actions in the middle east have likely hurt more innocent civilians than they have helped, I don't see any reason it would be different in east Asia.



Very true. While I see Neils point of view, I'm not so sure that involving the US in yet ANOTHER war is a good idea. We haven't even finished the 2 other wars we started!

The only nation building we should be doing is our OWN! I'm sure most people would agree to that. Screw their stupid leader, Kim Jung Un or whatever his name is. The sad thing is
that most average North Koreans don't even want a war to begin with, but yet they have a leader who cannot STFU.

Bottom line, we need to stay OUT of other countries affairs. What do we owe them, anyway? Hopefully China will step in and give them a backhand for being naughty!
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby frugi » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:09 pm

SilverDragon72 wrote:We haven't even finished the 2 other wars we started!


It is actually only 1 war, and that one will never end...("The War on Terror")

Congress never declared war on Iraq or Afghanistan.....

There are 5 wars in which the United States formally declared war against a foreign nation......the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II.

Using this strict definition of a declaration of war, the United States has not formally declared war with Iraq. However, the Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution (a law) passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing the Iraq War.

In the U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Congress shall have the power "To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water." Now the War Powers Resolution of 1973 puts a limit on the ability of the U.S. President to send troops into foreign country and making the President notify Congress within 60 days, however, he can extend it to 90 days. But logically speaking, the president can start a war by sending in troops to a foreign land, like into Vietnam. It's not technically the "Vietnam War" but a Vietnam conflict, since Congress did not specifically declare war nor authorize funding of the war.
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby SilverDragon72 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:02 pm

frugi wrote:
SilverDragon72 wrote:We haven't even finished the 2 other wars we started!


It is actually only 1 war, and that one will never end...("The War on Terror")

Congress never declared war on Iraq or Afghanistan.....

There are 5 wars in which the United States formally declared war against a foreign nation......the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II.

Using this strict definition of a declaration of war, the United States has not formally declared war with Iraq. However, the Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution (a law) passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing the Iraq War.

In the U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Congress shall have the power "To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water." Now the War Powers Resolution of 1973 puts a limit on the ability of the U.S. President to send troops into foreign country and making the President notify Congress within 60 days, however, he can extend it to 90 days. But logically speaking, the president can start a war by sending in troops to a foreign land, like into Vietnam. It's not technically the "Vietnam War" but a Vietnam conflict, since Congress did not specifically declare war nor authorize funding of the war.




You are correct, Frugi. Should we call these conflicts "interventions" or maybe "police actions?"

Either way, its ugly no matter what you call it. The War on Terror has only created more terror, and the cycle continues, unabated. :x

Our military is the finest in the world and they are winning the battles. However, we are getting our asses kicked economically. :sick:
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared on the US.

Postby neilgin1 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:55 pm

you all know what "open source" intel is, right?....its bits and pieces of info you get off of non classified media.

Most of it, its just like a giant pile of jigsaw puzzle pieces from five different sets, and you might be able to put 7 pieces together, and get a small glimpse of the picture....sometimes theres one bit of info, that sticks out; the source is credible, and maybe in three sentences, it'll give you a lead.

For instance, even after all these years, if i close my eyes and listen to a Korean speaking, and that includes media, i can tell within 3 seconds if its NK...or South. Its the SAME language, but then again, its NOT....much the same we can hear the difference between a heavy southern accent, as opposed to someone from Boston...get me?

i stumbled across this on CNN...(yeh, i know...but even main stream, bits and pieces flash by) and just listen to what this defector, now turned radio broadcaster has to say on the temperature of the north korean man in the street.

just this piece ALONE, lends me to believe, that hostilities are inevitable. I know many of you were dismayed and disappointed in what i wrote in the OP. There IS a reasoning behind what i wrote. i have no control over policy...obviously. (lol) BUT sometimes in life, you have to fight, and rather than take that first hit, which is going to nightmarish, SOMETIMES you have to deliever a really ruthless bolt out of the blue first strike.

They...meaning our forces in tandem with ROK forces are NOT going to do, what i would recommend doing at once, which is a 96 hour, continous full spectrum air assault, on ALL of the NK 13,000 arty/missile tubes parked up on the DMZ. Full Spectrum, means everything, every asset, from the F-18 Hornet, to the F-22 Raptor, every Predator drone in theater, every Naval vessel carrying tomahawks, sub launched Tomahawks, Apaches with stand off capabilities and hellfires, basically every thing operating on what is called an intense "operational tempo", which means how fast can you "turn around" an attack platform, refuel, re-arm,and takeoff....the Israeli's in 67, practiced this turn around, and got down to 8 minutes....thats REALLY good, and you can see why they won that victory. This would be going on for 96 hours, 4 days...non stop

Now these NK's arent going just sit there, they will fire back, but there is a thing known as counter battery, and we obviously have overhead satel positioning, so that within 3 to 5 minutes from that first return fire from the NK's, that tube is killed. The objective is very narrow, destroy 80% plus of those 13,000 arty/missile tubes on or within 10 kms of the DMZ.

an expected response is the NK's attacking South, they will going thru the largest concentration of minefields in the world. HOPEFULLY, the ROK learned a lesson from Gen Matthew Ridgeway, who took over from MacArthur's mess he had created, when the Chinese intervened late Nov 50...our guys were just running south. Ridgeway knew we were going to take a body blow, and he did something, that saved the day. Besides putting out fires, and getting rid of officers who couldnt hack it...he drew up 4 lines of defense...below the DMZ, "A" line...B, C and D....what would happen is this, the Chinese en masse would crash into "A" line, we would hold the line just enough, to turn the ground in front of it, into a slaughterhouse...the guys in A line would begin an orderly bug into B line, where MORE guys had already established defense positions, AND...this is important, had zeroed in, massive numbers of 155mm arty....so that the geography between "A" and "B" lines was turned into a slaughterhouse for the Chinese infantrymen...then they crashed into "B" line....i could look this up, but i believe the chinese attack did not go beyond the B line....the General gave this lines names like "Nebraska", etc.

the whole point of what i wrote is this, in defensive warfare, you NEVER count on a SINGLE defensive line to hold your adversary, so i'm assuming and HOPING the ROK/US forces have an "A" line that is say 7-15 kms BEHIND the DMZ......right before the air attack commences, you withdraw 60% of the guys BACK into this A line...and the 40% remaining on the DMZ resist until the first elements of the NK's actually bleed their way thru the minefields, and then they . the 40% do an orderly bug back to A line and turn the real estate between the DMZ and A line into a place where the NK infantry and amoured forces go to die....a literal meat grinder.

the danger to all this IS, i would assume the NK's are GOING to use chemical warfare, so everyone on A line has to be in NBC gear, and trained to fight in such an enviroment. i HOPE this is the case. Now, using chemical warfare is prohibited under many treaties, and at that point, the President i believe has the option for nuclear weapons release. before you start howling at me, just read on, it would be a "good thing" to hit their nuclear infrastructure facilities up north, as well as their rocket/missile development areas.

you might accuse me of being a chickenhawk. i'm not. My heartache is that i didnt continue working in this area, i would have 35 years experience in the Koreas, i just hope i have a "twin" who can see thru the mist, and not f### this up. My comfort is that back in the 90's, i think, we took the 2nd Infantry Div OFF the DMZ, and moved them back, which made me very glad. Back in the late 70's, we gave those guys a 30 second to 15 minute life expectancy...even as a young sailor, i NEVER liked this, i thought it was pure folly then, but i did NOT have a voice, i wasnt even 20, but i saw the folly of using 20,000 guys as a "tripwire"....the 2nd ID now, would be the men to move into position behind this HOPEFUL "A" line.

alright...here's the tidbit of what i saw....

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/vi ... -korea.cnn

listen closely.......i do believe the North Korean is being whipped up into some insane war fever, if thats the case?....we have to deal with it now. Backchannel?...the Chinese CAN be given assurances...you dont want to spell out ALL your objectives, but they would be narrow. Significantly degrade the 13,000 plus arty/missile tubes on the DMZ, to MINIMIZE any damage to Seoul, AND if and when the North sallies forth. let them walk into a trap, and leave 500,000 dead North Korean infantrymen behind....retake the DMZ, no operations north of the DMZ, 38th parralel.

But we cannot let the NK's fire the first shot...waiting to take that blow?, would be folly. dont flame me too bad.

(just listen to the line, "They (the North Korean "street") think they will win a war,and escape their difficult lives"...end quote)
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared. new info post #

Postby neilgin1 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:12 pm

actually CNN isnt doing bad on this situation:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/vi ... ith-sk.cnn

read between the lines brothers. in the previous posts video seg....that white kid?...head of "NK Daily".....fulbright scholar? i would wager SERIOUS money that he is "Agency"....no doubts.

Its time to end the Kim family.

enough. If we dont, there will come a day, maybe ten, 15 years down the road, this "kid" could set the whole region aflame.

This also could an opportunity to put that fool Abe, the new Japanese PM, back into a box, because he is playing with fire over those islands in dispute with China, his sending the Japanese Navy out there, and really is destabililizing the whole region thru his nonsense.

We could put him on the mat, backchannel a deal with the Chinese that Abe renounces territorial claims to these islands...i forget the name right this second, hands them over to the Chinese, who would be very grateful to us, and that could open up a whole different relationship tenor with China.....walking back the tension we are having with the Chinese. That is something we DO NOT want in the long run.
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared. new info post #

Postby blackrabbit » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:31 pm

Now I know I stashed my flamethrower around here somewhere.
Must have left it in the car.
CNN is obvious propaganda.
Remember "curve ball" the Iraqi defector who sold the lies about Sadams Nukes? Fool me once.....
There is the collapse of the western financial system going on. Be worried about that. North Korea is just a distraction that some of the western elites would love to kick into hot war mode for a real. If enough people think along the same lines you are then they might be able to pull it off with some contrived false flag event.
Turn off CNN and the rest of the MSM. It is spring. Do some gardening, you will feel better.
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Re: Sounds to me like war has been declared. new info post #

Postby neilgin1 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:24 pm

blackrabbit wrote:Now I know I stashed my flamethrower around here somewhere.
Must have left it in the car.
CNN is obvious propaganda.
Remember "curve ball" the Iraqi defector who sold the lies about Sadams Nukes? Fool me once.....
There is the collapse of the western financial system going on. Be worried about that. North Korea is just a distraction that some of the western elites would love to kick into hot war mode for a real. If enough people think along the same lines you are then they might be able to pull it off with some contrived false flag event.
Turn off CNN and the rest of the MSM. It is spring. Do some gardening, you will feel better.
Peace!


i hear ya...Peace...shalom...i live my life that way.

Juxtaposed against the terrible situation that WE lived in Iraq, this is not a "distraction". i realize that you cant just take my word, some poster on a metals forum, but this situation, is something we really DONT want, and the totality of the difference between what happened in Iraq, (and is still happening) and Korea...the differences are so wide, as to even make them uncomparable.

of course i know "curveball".of course i know how the Cheney/Rumsfeld team were LEANING on analysts big time. No analyst should EVER be forced/compelled by leadership to "cook" intel. That situation was truly dreadful...Colin Powell?...a good man, having to fall on a grenade like that at the UN...how about General Garner?....you read about his travails in post war Iraq? (i could write a LONG post on that, it made me furious....they fired Garner, who had crafted a constitution, and was telling Republic Guard COG's, i got you and your mens back. so they fire him, and in comes Paul Bremer, who was a DISASTER)

i could write to you very concisely on the FU's there....just terrible. Korea is not Iraq, and personally, i dont have cable, or TV, and i certanly know BS when i see it, distraction when i see it. THIS situation is something they DO NOT want. Let me tell you why, US ground forces CANNOT prevail in a land attack into North Korea....i'm just using CNN, coz i cant take the time to translate the stuff i'm reading, all over the net.

when i was "in", my MO has always been, i STOP lensing the world thru American eyes, i 'think' like a north korean, and i truly love living in South Korea, i felt very comfortable and at home there...and in LA, among Koreans, they are indeed, a special people.

Rabbit, there's a lot more i could write, but i'm hesitant. believe me, when i say, that i put this whole thing thru the "convienient distraction" test...i loathe kool aid, its not a distraction. As i went thru this "test", just as a fellow RC'er, i ask you, think of the variables here.

this is a bad situation years in the making. During the great famine in NK, during the 90's, the US and ROK, sent millions of pounds of food north. The NK's have a policy they call "Son Gun"...."military first"....all resources go to the military FIRST...decades old policy, and China stood by. If China had not sent JUST ENOUGH to keep this whole dysfunctional mad house afloat, the NK's, led by the Kim's, would have literally imploded in the late 90's.

also, and this is not widely talked about, the South Koreans themselves are to blame. They make big noise on "reunification", but the reality is, they are too myopic and cheap to foot the $100-200 bln required to reunify. hence, for years, they have just dragged their feet on TRUE reunification.

believe me, i realize my little posts are nothing.i was watching another "segment"....a "Col Leighton" doing his talking head number....watch and listen to him closely....this is the kind of unimaginative clock punching, kool aid drinking hump within our apparatus, and he is why i'm grateful i'm not "in"....as i would to push past such men as these......

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/vi ... the-us.cnn

i'm not arguing with you bro, but sometimes, you have to fight. i, as you do, just wish we could REALLY trust leadership, and i agree with you there, we cant, neil
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