Prepping For the Silver Shortage

[Lemon Thrower]

if you are planning for a barter situation, yeah fractional is the way to go but lets hope we don't go there. stuff like toilet paper and water will have a better profit margin in that situation.

fractional is nice but the premiums are high so you get less silver. its only if silver goes say past 200 or barter that its going to make sense.

i think premiums will come down in a few months, especially on 90 which makes no sense to be as high as ASEs.

[Lemon Thrower]

something i haven't seen discussed on this board is gold v silver. there is an argument that gold could be revalued to say 7000 over night, but not silver. I think something like that is more likely than barter, so my plan is to have as many ounces that i can trade for gold when the GSR is more favorable.

[justoneguy]

I have bought a few oz's of 1 gram fracs from kurr. they are very nice, at a fair premium.
But dimes are about 2.2 grams, 14 weigh 1.01 oz if you use the .715 #.
They have a very low premium for a very recognized coin.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

In Canada Pre-67 80% Junk is the hands-down winner. No matter how you make up $1 of CDN junk it always equals 0.6 ounces of silver. Easily divisible, fractional, and identifiable. And our customs laws allow us to leave the country with up to $9,999 of coinage, which is nearly 6000 ounces per person.

[Catfish4u]

As '68Camaro points out, "that ton of silver in the safe isn't going to move with you very easy".

I would guess there are much less than 1,000 'individuals' in the world with more than 1 ton of physical silver. A half ton of silver would be currently valued around $375,000 and could easily be moved with a car. Probably less than .00001% of the worlds population would have more than a half ton of silver.

[beauanderos]

Who you calling .00001???

[68Camaro]

As '68Camaro points out, "that ton of silver in the safe isn't going to move with you very easy".

I would guess there are much less than 1,000 'individuals' in the world with more than 1 ton of physical silver. A half ton of silver would be currently valued around $375,000 and could easily be moved with a car. Probably less than .00001% of the worlds population would have more than a half ton of silver.

A literal ton was a metaphoric example. I'm not going to debate whether 1000 people in the world have a ton (though I'm confident that the number would be many thousands). The point is that silver is heavy, and it's even heavier if you're stacking 90% or 40%, which contains a lot of copper as well. More copper than silver in the case of 40%.

Let's lower that bar to 500 pounds. 500 pounds may be technically transportable, but it's 10 of the heaviest suitcases (not counting the suitcases themselves) that the airlines will let you check.

While none of them are going to stand up and shout "yep, look at me, I'm one of them!" I'm very sure that at least 20-30 of the 1000+ RCs have at least 500 pounds of silver, and probably more of the BS folks. And that's just a small subpopulation. I'm sure that the number of people with at least 500 pounds of silver in the US, while a small percentage, is probably in the tens of thousands.

What can you do with it? You can move within the 48 states, and you can (maybe) move it into Canada or Mexico. That's about it. Otherwise, it's a fairly static hoard that doesn't move much.

[Catfish4u]

Let's lower that bar to 500 pounds. 500 pounds may be technically transportable, but it's 10 of the heaviest suitcases (not counting the suitcases themselves) that the airlines will let you check.

If you have 20 pounds of gold valued at around $500,000 you could easily fit into a suitcase but I don't think you would make it on an airlines. I doubt the federal government would let you take that much gold or any wealth and cross the border. I agree gold would be much easier than silver if you wanted to try and 'make a dash across the border'.

[68Camaro]

We're currently allowed to take out 200 toz of gold US coin without question.

[SilverDragon72]

For me, the answer is silver fractionals, the smaller the better.

That is basically what I said.
I keep hoping that someone will develop a US brand version of a snap apart bar like Valcambi.

The cost of minting the bars and rounds is pretty much predicated on the stamping unit measure. Once the dies are made, it cost's a 100 times less per stamping to produce a 100 gram snap apart bar than 100 individual 1 gram units.

You're right, basically what you said... but as I was typing my answer yours posted, and I wasn't going to go to the effort of rewriting mine

It would be GREAT if someone stateside could do a Valcambi. "Kurr?" "Rodie?" "Silver Addict?" "Nate?" Step up, Brothers... the markets await.

I would be a willing participant in this new potential market!

[johnbrickner]

We're currently allowed to take out 200 toz of gold US coin without question.

A little over 17 lbs (if my math is correct) and currently valued at $294K FRNs. Now that's quite doable. Maybe send it insured courier to myself along with that good quality, fancy yellow, colored diamond to some secluded south American location and now we're close to $300K. Thanks 68Camaro, your helping with the lifeboat strategy.

[Engineer]

We're currently allowed to take out 200 toz of gold US coin without question.

A little over 17 lbs (if my math is correct)

200 oz x 31.1 oz/g = 6220g

6.22 kg x 2.2 kg/lb = 13.68 lb

In a worst case scenario, you could swim across a river with that much weight.

[IdahoCopper]

The best way to flee the country with a lot of gold is to put all of it deep in the bilge of your 50-foot sailing yacht. The extra mass down there will help the boat to sail more upright, and at a faster speed. A 50-footer is not too big, and its not too small. A sailboat that size can sail comfortably across any ocean to anywhere that is less than 60 degrees north or south of the equator.

If anyone needs a skipper for their project like this, let me know.

[Lemon Thrower]

The best way to flee the country with a lot of gold is to put all of it deep in the bilge of your 50-foot sailing yacht. The extra mass down there will help the boat to sail more upright, and at a faster speed. A 50-footer is not too big, and its not too small. A sailboat that size can sail comfortably across any ocean to anywhere that is less than 60 degrees north or south of the equator.

If anyone needs a skipper for their project like this, let me know.

some day

[OneBiteAtATime]

I could comfortably slip $5000 worth of gold on my person in the form of plain mens rings and a necklace and waltz anywhere largely unnoticed.

[beauanderos]

interesting the way this turned into a thread about gold... when it was what form of silver, and why, you would be buying if you knew this could be your last purchase?

[OneBiteAtATime]

interesting the way this turned into a thread about gold... when it was what form of silver, and why, you would be buying if you knew this could be your last purchase?

We know what YOU wanted to talk about, Ray; but we made it what WE wanted to talk about.

I'd buy 370 of these:

http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com/in ... &Itemid=53

and still have a few bucks left over for a bottle of Wild Turkey to drown my sorrows of it being my last PM purchase ever.

[Cent1225]

I know this is the Silver and Gold area, but when Silver is $200/oz, copper will be $30+/oz,
I think Copper pennies will then be the same as Silver is now.

[IdahoCopper]

The best way to flee the country with a lot of gold is to put all of it deep in the bilge of your 50-foot sailing yacht. The extra mass down there will help the boat to sail more upright, and at a faster speed. A 50-footer is not too big, and its not too small. A sailboat that size can sail comfortably across any ocean to anywhere that is less than 60 degrees north or south of the equator.

If anyone needs a skipper for their project like this, let me know.

some day

Why wait?
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Bruce-Roberts-Pilothouse-2597225/santa-barbara/CA/United-States#.UYVqyWdNXDw

[Z00]

OK, I got it now, when the balloon goes up.... we all pack a suitcase with "whatever" and all meet at the marina for a party out past the 12 mile limit.

Works for me.

[beauanderos]

OK, I got it now, when the balloon goes up.... we all pack a suitcase with "whatever" and all meet at the marina for a party out past the 12 mile limit.

Works for me.

Wonder if some enterprising gent will line something like that up? Virgin Cruises? (oh, that has potential ) Seriously... do they check your bags closely on cruise ships? Getting on and off? How hard would it be to go Caribbean if Stateside got ugly?

[beauanderos]

I'd buy 370 of these:

http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com/in ... &Itemid=53

db23 had a couple of rolls of these for sale a few months back. I don't remember them ever selling.

[neilgin1]

I'd buy 370 of these:

http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com/in ... &Itemid=53

db23 had a couple of rolls of these for sale a few months back. I don't remember them ever selling.

hi Ya Ray...I actually went to look at those, and was thinking of getting a roll of 20. That violates my rule, that it has to say United States of America on the coin. Give me some no bs counsel, would ya?.....you think I should NOT make the buy?....when you make a "rule" for yourself. you should stick by it, right?

I DID break my "budget", couldn't help it. "icecube" had a bunch of really neat 10 face rolls of Wash's for offer, including a roll of 1959 Proofs and 1957 Proofs, both coin's in the barley over 1 million minted....so being born in 59, I put in the blow away bid, and of course got it, at 33 times....hey, what can I say?....the funny thing is, I wanted the 57's also, but don't have the frns, and guess where they traded?.......27 times.....AND all the rest of these late 50 to 64 rolls of Wash Gem/BU's, went from 23 to 26 times!

what the heck is it?...everytime, I get into an auction....bam! the thing trades high....oh well, remember I got those 44 Gem Bu Wash's for 22 times, when the price of PAPER silver was 32...so they give you this and you pay for that....no free rides...here's the 59's

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-GEM-PROOF- ... true&rt=nc

one more thing on my heart, why is it, that guys here, all that I really like, are starting to talk about leaving America?

i'm NOT judging anybody...i'm really not....but are we gonna left these screwheads, grab grey grimy dreary men, drive US from OUR country?

just the thought of THAT, makes me angry...My heart, my blood is in this land. All my life I been searching for my bit of land, grew up for my first 7 years in rural America, then dragged to the city....then live in urban rentals for the next 21 years...then lived in an exurban rental outside LA for 18 years.....now FINALLY I got my land in the Great White North, my America....and they're going to make me feel like I gotta "flee"?

why?....I've done nothing wrong......I know "they're" wrong...the way "they" do things, these "powers that be", shiteheads the whole lot of them, but I aint going nowhere.

this place?...I don't know whether its "Bag End"...or "Edoras"......I know I post too many film clips, i'm sorry, its just my '"language" and I know this is just a "story"....but i'm not fleeing....two clips, I hope they speak to you all....what kind of men are we, if we forget the blood of our forefathers shed to defend this land? that we let small men drive us from our land? two clips....and I got me a nice proof roll of 1959 Proof Washingtons's!!!

[johnbrickner]

Certainly something to consider... thinking outside the box there, good on ya

BUT... isn't DeBeers just the opposite of JPMorgan? Keeping prices artificially high by suppressing release of what is reportedly millions of carats from reaching the markets? I read some marketing stuff from the sixties and seventies about how they popularized diamonds with women (good reading btw) and how there are huge diamond fields in Russia... but that a diamond cartel keeps prices artificially high by only permitting a trickle of stones into the market each year. Is this an urban myth?

Diamonds... good thought, but my problem with diamonds is that they are made from a common element carbon and can be synthesized, and even the natural diamonds aren't actually rare, just made artificially scarce and the desire ramped up for women by the cartel(s). There are faux diamonds that are as attractive (if not more so) like moissonite.

I don't know that DeBeers is controlling the market on colored diamonds or not. Maybe regular diamonds. I'm sure it's more than possible.

Additionally yes, just like there are fake silver EVERYTHING now days, there are fake diamonds. Should we not all buy from reputable individuals? It is the same with colored diamonds. But, neither the risk of having JP Morgan manipulate the market down nor the risk of buying fake silver stops us from doing what we think is the right thing to do.

Heck, having US FRNs is a risk. The idea we can use colored diamonds as a more concentrated store of value or wealth, is easily transported, and purchase need not be reported is out there. Colored diamonds should be a consideration for those who have proportions of metals that serve them yet want to spread their risk via diversification and proportioning.

Additional food for thought: According to International Living, May 2013, the largest pink diamond ever uncovered in Australia (named the Argyle Pink Jubilee) was donated by Rio Tinto to the Melbourne Museum. The 8.01 carat pink diamond was valued pre-auction at $10 - $20 million. Rio Tinto's Argyle mine accounts for 90% of the world's pink diamond supply and is expected to be exhausted by 2019.

The Rapaport Diamond Trade Index (RAPI) is derived from the average asking price from the top 25 best-quality one carat diamonds. Down 12.5% for 2012 rising slightly ytd 2013. See: http://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results for colored diamond pricing.

[Z00]

I'd buy 370 of these:

http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com/in ... &Itemid=53

db23 had a couple of rolls of these for sale a few months back. I don't remember them ever selling.

I am waiting for delivery of mine. (not 370 tho. LOL)