Global warming

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Is global warming real, and caused by humans to a significant extent?

Yes
13
20%
No
38
59%
I don't know
13
20%
 
Total votes : 64

Re: Global warming

Postby scyther » Wed May 01, 2013 9:24 pm

neilgin1 wrote:
scyther wrote:This topic has come up lately, and I know there are different opinions about it, so... poll.

I really don't know, supposedly there is a strong scientific consensus, but I haven't really noticed it, and I have no way of telling who's lying and who isn't.


I think "climate change" is a better term.

it doesn't all manifest itself in "warming"....I think what happens is the statistical "norms" get stretched out like a rubber band...the parameters widen.

I always found it disheartening that "reading science" is so darn politicized.

inho, "climate change" is real, but the reality is, what can you do about it?

7 billion people GOT to get fed, and be warmed, there's no two ways about it.

the only thing that REALLY worries me is GMO crops...it almost seems to me, like "playing god"...something He doesn't regard with favor. If you narrow the genetic base, narrow genetic diversity?....in my mind, you're playing with fire. And what really never fails to blow my mind, is how self confident man is...how he regards him self as self sufficient and powerful in deed and knowledge. total lack of humility...just some thoughts.

I agree, I find GMOs much more threatening than climate change. I heard GMO salmon kill all the real salmon within a few generations. Not sure if that's true or not...
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Re: Global warming

Postby IdahoCopper » Wed May 01, 2013 9:41 pm

The worst part about this topic, is TPTB pretend to be able to fix the problem, if only everyone in the world will pay a carbon tax. That is THE BIG LIE of the entire topic. That is why it is so politicized, and the sheeple follow their leaders blindly into the abyss.
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Re: Global warming

Postby messymessy » Wed May 01, 2013 10:24 pm

theo wrote:Ah yes. I believe it was Time 1975. I think I have copy of it some place.


I would guess 1979 or 1980. I was in sixth grade when I read it.
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Re: Global warming

Postby Treetop » Thu May 02, 2013 12:01 pm

Beer crisis could trigger iceage!!!!

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/01/b ... more-85391

The beer institute has come out with its yearly figures, and I am sad to report that you people are slacking off. For the third straight year the United States has drunk less beer than they did the year before. As I will explain later, this has had a very bad effect on the environment, and especially the climate.

am proud to say I am doing my part to help the climate. Here in New Hampshire we lead the nation in per capita consumption of beer. Some suggest this may explain the “Live Free Or Die” on our license plates, and also the fact we are the only remaining state where insurance companies have been unable to force adults to wear seatbelts if they don’t (bleeping) feel like it. In any case, we drink 43 gallons of beer a year. (That’s only an average. Some of us drink more.)

Three miles from my front door is the state line, and just across that imaginary line are a miserable bunch, living in the state of Taxachusetts. Those poor Flatlanders rank 41st, only drinking 26 gallons a year. (Amazingly, some even drink less!)

This likely explains why they are so tense and up tight down there. I wish they’d just relax and be honest, but instead they have to be this thing called “politically correct,” which seems to have little to do with just telling the truth. They like to say they have overcome their Puritan roots, however the truth is: They are so up-tight and Puritan, (about just about everything,) that they make Puritans of the 1600’s look wanton. After all, those old Puritans had masses of children; (Paul Revere had sixteen,) however the modern Puritans of Taxachusetts fret that having sex with the opposite sex might be a little bit…dare I say it…”homophobic.” I really think they need to quit taking their medications, and instead medicate themselves with a beer.|

They tend to get a bit haughty when I speak honestly. They feel I am some sort of Redneck. They tilt their noses skywards, and say, “While you drink 43 gallons a year, we only drink 26. Obviously you are ossified, whilst we are rational.” That’s how they get, down there in the Flatlands, with all their concern about statistics, facts and figures, and other bureaucratic number-mumbo-jumbo. However the Truth is surprisingly different from their peculiar view of reality.

For example, facts and figures show that no one in Massachusetts buys fireworks, for they are illegal. In New Hampshire fireworks are legal, so facts and figures show we spend an amazing amount, per capita, on stuff that goes up in smoke. Therefore a Massachusetts snob could state we are foolish to spend on what goes up in smoke, and they are far wiser.
The only problem with these facts and figures is that, when you look in the parking lots of our fireworks stores, not all that many of the cars have license plates that say, “Live Free Or Die,” on them. (They don’t say, “Live Taxed and Regulated,” but they do say, “Massachusetts.”)

Furthermore, if you climb a high hill and look south into Massachusetts, as night falls on the evening of Independence Day, it looks like the entire state of Massachusetts is breaking the law. If fireworks are against the law in Massachusetts, they are a nation of hypocrites, writing laws with their tongues firmly planted in their cheeks. (And it must now be stated that the Attorney General of Massachusetts, (supposedly the one upholding The Law,) is on record for stating a most amazing hypocrisy, (concerning illegal aliens,) “It is not illegal to be illegal in Massachusetts.”)

They are a mysterious bunch, those Flatlanders.

However, to get back to my point, the facts and figures concerning fireworks do not include the fact thousands of people flee Massachusetts’ oppression to enjoy our freedom, and buy fireworks here in New Hampshire. In the same way, the facts and figures concerning the consumption of beer do not include the fact many in Massachusetts do some calculating, and even with the price of gas high, figure out it is worth their while to drive up here to buy beer, escaping the oppression of Massachusetts taxes.

Because I live on the border, and actually see, when I go to buy hooch, no parking places, due to cars from Massachusetts, and because I only want a six-pack but the people from Massachusetts are buying sixteen cases, I can even go so far as to suggest the people of New Hampshire do not drink as much as facts and figures show, whist the people of Massachusetts are all as drunken as lords. (It might explain their politics.)

What does this have to do with Global Warming?

It has to do with the fact it is silly to play games with statistics, comparing two abutting states and ignoring the fact people cross state lines.

Last spring, if you look at the temperature anomalies of the entire planet, you notice the entirety of the planet was cooling. Only in one spot was it warm: North America. However the media seized upon the microcosm of North America to blare political propaganda about Global Warming, ignoring the macrocosm of the cooling entirety.

This year the entirety is actually warmer, but the microcosm of North America has been colder than a witch’s bodily part, especially in Minnesota, which was near the center of last year’s warmth. However the response of the media has been deathly silence.
The media really needs to wise up. It is not merely the people of Minnesota who notice when a nice, warm spring is used to beat a drum of Global Warming doom and gloom, while the following spring, which is much more like doom and gloom to the people who actually endure it, inexplicably escapes notice.

What the media really needs to do is crack a beer. They need to stop being so politically correct, and so observant of political agendas, and instead to enjoy the lack of discretion that a beer makes possible.

This brings me, at long last, to how beer affects the Global Climate.

As some of you know, CO2 is not a major component of the Earth’s atmosphere. In fact, it is such a small part of the air we breathe that it is a bit amazing that plants, which depend on CO2 the same way we depend on Oxygen, do not suffocate. However we are asked to believe that this tiny, tiny part of our atmosphere can have humongous effects. Well, if it has such a humongous effect, despite being tiny, it is a bit like a tiny pebble that can start a huge avalanche, is it not? And, if such a tiny thing can have such a huge effect, so can another tiny thing, like the head on your beer.

After all, the head of your beer is mostly CO2. If a little pebble can start an avalanche, then whether you have one beer or ten could make a difference in the wheat crops. (It will definitely make a difference in your relationships with your boss, and also your wife, (occasionally one and the same,) but that is another matter.) If warming is a bad thing, then you should drink less beer and release less CO2. However the opposite might be true. We might be, (according to certain Russian scientists,) on the verge of another Little Ice Age, or even the next Real Ice Age. If that were the case, the fact you only had one beer, rather than ten, might be the pebble that tipped the tipping point, starting the avalanche of events into the next ice age. (You might think you don’t matter, but Chaos Theory states even a butterfly flapping its wings can matter.)

(I’ll know if you caught my drift, if I see you looking at the froth of your next beer in a rather owlish and overly serious manner.) Of course the people of Taxachusetts will not believe that this “tipping point” exists, unless I produce facts and figures. I can do so. The last winter was colder, and beer consumption in the northern hemisphere was way down. It is scientific proof: Less beer causes colder winters.

I will furthermore supply links.

Beer consumption is down in the USA: http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-wi ... r-annually
In the United Kingdom, consumption of beer in pubs has fallen by an alarming 50 million, (I repeat, 50 MILLION,) pints. http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/0 ... ion-pints/
But we can depend on the Germans to drink beer, can’t we? Alas, apparently not. German beer sales have hit a twenty-year-low. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-3 ... ather.html
However the link to Germany provides a crucial factor. The reason Germans drank less beer was (supposedly) because the weather was colder.

Do you see how ominous this trend is!!!? If people drink less beer, the beer’s froth will produce less CO2, and less CO2 will make the weather colder, which will cause people to drink even less beer. It is a vicious cycle which, like a mere pebble starting the mighty avalanche, could freeze our socks off, with the onset of glaciers and an ice age which will plow Boston and Taxachusetts right off the face of the map.

The only way for you to prevent this horrible destiny is for you to drink more beer. Please do it. I know you hate beer, especially when the weather is cold, but I’m asking on bended knee. Your grandchildren are depending on you.
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Re: Global warming

Postby Saabman » Thu May 02, 2013 1:09 pm

+ 1E10!!! Awesome!!!!!
Cerca Trova!!!

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Re: Global warming

Postby Engineer » Thu May 02, 2013 7:46 pm

It's May 2, there's a foot of snow on the roof, and I'm wearing long johns. After shoveling the walk, a hot toddy sounds good.

Bring on the global warming!!!
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Re: Global warming

Postby johnbrickner » Thu May 02, 2013 8:55 pm

Treetop, that was hugely entertaining. Thank you!
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Re: Global warming

Postby Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay » Fri May 03, 2013 11:40 am

Laugh it up all you want.

Global ice fields, glaciers, perma-frost and sea ice have been receding for more than 10,000 years. The global ice melt will not stop in our lifetimes.

and the oceans, they just keep on a'risin'.
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Re: Global warming

Postby 68Camaro » Fri May 03, 2013 2:35 pm

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Laugh it up all you want.

Global ice fields, glaciers, perma-frost and sea ice have been receding for more than 10,000 years. The global ice melt will not stop in our lifetimes.

and the oceans, they just keep on a'risin'.


Yes, you don't have to look very long nor hard to find clean data supporting that sea level changes are cyclic over long times and the "recent" glacial melt has been going on for 15,000 years - obviously not solely (nor even mostly) man-made. The current sea level was also the norm about 120,000 years ago, and dropped during the major ice ages. Sun spot activity is tied into this. It most likely that we're approaching (or already now in) an interglacial phase, and that we will "soon" see the start of global cooling again. Though it will likely be hundreds of years before the trend becomes certain and can be confirmed by data.

Interesting discussion on the topic here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level
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Re: Global warming

Postby Tourney64 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:18 pm

Ask yourself this, why is Greenland called that, when it is covered by ice. Maybe at one time it wasn't. Weather patterns do change and are not caused by humans.
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Re: Global warming

Postby Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay » Fri May 03, 2013 4:31 pm

68Camaro wrote:
Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Laugh it up all you want.

Global ice fields, glaciers, perma-frost and sea ice have been receding for more than 10,000 years. The global ice melt will not stop in our lifetimes.

and the oceans, they just keep on a'risin'.


Yes, you don't have to look very long nor hard to find clean data supporting that sea level changes are cyclic over long times and the "recent" glacial melt has been going on for 15,000 years - obviously not solely (nor even mostly) man-made. The current sea level was also the norm about 120,000 years ago, and dropped during the major ice ages. Sun spot activity is tied into this. It most likely that we're approaching (or already now in) an interglacial phase, and that we will "soon" see the start of global cooling again. Though it will likely be hundreds of years before the trend becomes certain and can be confirmed by data.

Interesting discussion on the topic here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level

Good read
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Re: Global warming

Postby Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay » Fri May 03, 2013 4:35 pm

Tourney64 wrote:Ask yourself this, why is Greenland called that, when it is covered by ice. Maybe at one time it wasn't. Weather patterns do change and are not caused by humans.

The Vikings named it Greenland in order to sell land to suckers.
Last edited by Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay on Sun May 05, 2013 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global warming

Postby scyther » Sat May 04, 2013 12:13 am

I have my doubts about global warming, to be sure, but I've never believed the "Greenland used to be green" explanation. Isn't it archeologically confirmed that the ice on Greenland is thousands or tens of thousands of years old?
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Re: Global warming

Postby scyther » Sat May 04, 2013 12:15 am

Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay wrote:Laugh it up all you want.

Global ice fields, glaciers, perma-frost and sea ice have been receding for more than 10,000 years. The global ice melt will not stop in our lifetimes.

and the oceans, they just keep on a'risin'.

That makes it sound like a good idea for a conspiracy. Predict something that has already been happening for millennia, but that people don't notice, and then when it continues as you said it would, you were right.
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Re: Global warming

Postby 68Cougar » Sat May 04, 2013 12:54 am

Co2 is tree food. Save a tree drive a muscle car.
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Re: Global warming

Postby Treetop » Sat May 04, 2013 4:32 am

scyther wrote:I have my doubts about global warming, to be sure, but I've never believed the "Greenland used to be green" explanation. Isn't it archeologically confirmed that the ice on Greenland is thousands or tens of thousands of years old?


The northern parts have been frozen a heck of a long time. We have however always known they were once able to live considerably more north then they do now in areas currently in permafrost, and about 2-3 years back we found a settlement that pushed those bounds much farther into areas that are permafrost now. It got cold and wiped many out and chased them south.

The AGW folks make the case this warming was regional even though it shows up globally, although greenland and parts of europe it was more pronounced. Most of the temp reconstructions show this period as warmer then today globally by the way, and "coincidentally" the smaller amount of reconstructions of past temps that show this era as cooler then today came out AFTER the AGW folks couldnt explain this with their models. Of course no periods fit their models. Even the IPCC included this period as warmer in their early reports, then the fabled "hockey stick" charts were born, most of which are clearly biased in how they picked what data to include or exclude, even down to the individual trees that would be included in some cases. they literally had a large sample and only included data from trees that fit their needs, many many other holes but most could be attributed to being horrible scientists, although in light of the hand picking of trees was imo purposeful.

Our most comprehensive reconstructions came out pretty recently and also show this period as warmer, ignored by the AGW folks of course, they call it "outlier" despite being more comprehensive with no apparent biases as is obvious if you break down the hockey stick charts. Even the temp rise in the 30s or 40s was almost as warm as today in the vast bulk of reconstructions and early IPCC reports, but that was downplayed as well. Temps rose as fast as they did across the 80s and 90s before our temps leveled off, which is relevant since we are told the speed of change was unprecedented. It wasnt by any stretch of the imagination.

I seriously wish I could have legally binding long term bets on this. Im not saying humans are definitely not affecting climate but co2 is not the major driver it is claimed. You have to ignore reams of data and place it all just right to make the case for co2. This isnt how science should work.
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Re: Global warming

Postby messymessy » Sat May 04, 2013 6:04 pm

It could be that global warming causes rising CO2 levels instead of rising CO2 levels causing global warming. Correlation does not prove causation.

Of course, I could just be nuts.
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Re: Global warming

Postby Mossy » Tue May 07, 2013 5:55 pm

"Climate change"? It does that on it's own, and always has. How is anyone going to prove that humans play any role at all? How to prove that removing human affect, if any, will improve the climate? What is an improved climate?

The AGW crowd refused to release their proof, saying that it was proprietary and they did not have permission to release it. The "stolen" emails released indicate intentional deceit on this point and many others. More emails have recently been released, indicating further deceit. At best, the research is proprietary, at worst it is fraud.

I strongly recommend:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/
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